Model S

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3 Minute Charge

edited November -1 in Model S
BMW and Porsche announced 450 kW charging - in 3 minutes 62 miles of added range. Batteries brought to 80% capacity in 15 minutes
Link: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-13/bmw-and-porsche-lap-tesla-race-3-minute-charge

In 16 months and 31,000 miles my own personal experience is that I travel not very often to the point that I need to use the Tesla Supercharger Network. A few trips during the year, and when we go to our vacation home in the Berkshires. 90% of my charging is done in my garage. I am also able to occupy myself for the 20-30 minutes needed to charge my 90kW battery to the point I feel comfortable unplugging and heading towards my next destination.

That said, this is a significant advancement and here is to hoping Tesla can keep pace with these advances.

In prior posts centered around whether or not current Tesla owners would consider purchasing other electric vehicles made by other manufacturers, my answer was that I am a true believer in the open unfettered marketplace. Yes, I would consider getting the best bang for my $$$. Having and using autopilot on a frequent basis - every day, that would be a feature I am not willing to compromise on when purchasing my next vehicle which will be electric.

I am looking forward to when EV's can be replenished in the same amount of time as gas powered vehicles. That would be awesome.

Best to all,
David/
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Comments

  • bpbp
    edited December 2018
    There's a trade-off between rapid charging and the impact on battery degradation - which is why Tesla limits charging rates if non-Tesla rapid charging has been done frequently.

    Tesla could charge vehicles faster with the current Superchargers, and because that could damage the battery packs, Tesla tapers the rapid charging to protect the battery packs. And that strategy seems to be working well, with relatively low battery degradation observed for Tesla battery packs.

    Tesla has been talking about faster charging with their V3 Superchargers for several years - which now appears to be planned for deployment next year. Tesla hasn't released any details on V3 charging - how much faster it will charge vehicles, if the faster charging will require new battery packs, or if the new chargers will also include the "snake connectors" that can automatically connect/disconnect (which will be needed to support vehicles operating under Full Self Driving).

    Tesla has considerably more experience with battery design, manufacturing and charging than any of the other manufacturers - and has proven they are able to do rapid charging without damaging the battery packs. Even if other manufacturers claim they can charge faster - it may be years before there's confidence they can do so without damaging the batteries and avoid repeating the problems Nissan had with the Leaf (which had to replace battery packs due to rapid degradation).
  • edited December 2018
    There will continue to be advances in battery and charging technology.

    The difference between my 2013 S85 and 2018 X100D is amazing - I figure I save about 50% charging time with the X100D. And that is just some minor tweaking - pretty much the same voltage, battery technology, and chargers.
  • edited December 2018
    "Even if other manufacturers claim they can charge faster - it may be years before there's confidence they can do so without damaging the batteries "

    Agreed. Let's see how well the BMW, Porsche, and Audi batteries hold up after a few years if owners really do charge at those fast rates.
  • edited December 2018
    Why are we giving this news any credence. Read the article again, they only made one of these, the cars used to demonstrate it were specially made for the demonstration and it is just a concept of future chargers. As the article points out, you have any idea how much power a charging site full of these Uber chargers would need.

    Let’s not become like the general public and start salivating over hyperbole.
  • jjsjjs
    edited December 2018
    +1 jordanrichard In the details of the article, past the first couple of paragraphs, they start to touch on some the requirements, and limitations:
    1) Their cars cannot currently take this level of charge
    2) The cables and battery take special (read expensive) cooling system to help dissipate heat.
    Then they didn't bother to at least ask the question of whether the infrastructure of the last few miles of grid supplied electricity could even handle charging 10,20, 100 cars at a time at this rate. Um, maybe someone should ask these types of questions? Or are we not planning for millions of these cars on the roads?

    I too applaud the efforts in the EV space, but I'm not a fan of hyperbole and shoddy journalism.
  • edited December 2018
    "As the article points out, you have any idea how much power a charging site full of these Uber chargers would need."

    2x what is needed for a Tesla charger. I don't see that as a problem - if it is, someone better figure it out pretty quickly because the grid will need to be able to handle it.

    We currently use about 4,000 gwh of electricity annually in the US. I figure the 3.2 trillion miles driven each year would need about 1,000 gwh of electricity if all those miles were electric. I think there is a good chance we will transition to mostly electric vehicles over the next 50 years, and the grid will need to be able to handle that too.
  • edited December 2018
    Sorry - 4x what is needed for a Tesla charger; 8x what is needed per Tesla stall). Still need to figure that out.
  • It is the 80% capacity in 15 minutes that is the really interesting thing here, not the 62 miles in 3 minutes. 80% capacity in 15 minutes is 4C charging. This is not beyond current battery technology.
    In order to handle this kind of current a lot of copper and cooling is required to deliver the current. The question a serious manufacturer needs to ask is what the added value of this is.
    I actually saw the results of a car battery charged at 6C (10 minutes to 100 miles) once as a stunt. The copper interconnect was badly scorched but it did it -- once. I don't suspect the battery pack was ever used again.
    That was over a decade ago. I'm glad to see folks trying this again and it gaining good publicity. However, there's really nothing new here.
  • edited December 2018
    This is just the Germans trying to one up Tesla, even though it is complete BS. I say “BS” because people are going to think the Germans came up with true fast charging, because all people read is headlines.
  • edited December 2018
    @JR...got that right!
  • edited December 2018
    Again, where can I buy and drive these vehicles??
    I have been able to drive and fast charge my Tesla for the last 6 years.
    Vaporware, again.
  • edited December 2018
    Gas station mentality.
    I want that money spent on destination charging, even if it takes 4 hours. That way I can hike in the parks, see movies and visit museums.
  • edited December 2018
    Tesla built the cars and the chargers together so the capabilities mirror each other. Everyone else is trying to solve the chicken and egg problem, and the journalists are not savvy enough to understand the difference. These are marketing departments and journalists, not electrical engineers, writing about how chargers work. When the car journals test vehicles, the true state will become clear.
  • edited December 2018
    Remember... Clean Diesel

    Germans have no ethics when making an outrageous claim.

    Turned out their clean diesels churned out far more emissions than anyone suspected. It corrupted all the way through a already corrupt industry.

    Remember that when they loudly proclaimed their amazing diesel fuel economy they intentially neglected to include the diesel cleaning fluid that was also being consumed. Fraud on fraud!
  • edited November -1
    I think the battery and cooling technology does exist. A year or 2 back Porsche announced they will have a vehicle that will charge as fast as stated in the article and now they have the stations that can provide that power.

    This is great news because range anxiety folks will be satisfied .
  • edited December 2018
    Most “journalists” are just regurgitating what they are told via press kit. You will often see the same exact phrasing in more than one article and that tells you that are just spitting out a press release.

    Silver2K, yes Porsche said that, but at the time the inference was that such a system would be available and their Mission E would charger super quick because of it. Well they, meaning Seimens, built one working concept, to be used on a couple of cars that had to be specially built for the demonstration. Then to announce that it is not ready for commercial use. That is akin to any company saying that in 2 years we will have a flying car. They build one copy and say it is not ready for prime time.
  • edited December 2018
    Nice if they can do it, but dubious it makes that much difference. Most charging is done at home, and you ain't gonna get no 450kW there, nor do you need it as again most is done at night. When I'm travelling, 50% in 20 minutes is fast enough - time for a coffee or a (bio)logical break, and if I need more, can't fit lunch in in only 15 minutes!

    Still, with more and more EVs on the road being able to push them through in peak periods would be good I suppose. Looking at Tesla's 115kW cables, can't help wondering how thick those 450kW ones are!
  • SOSO
    edited December 2018
    Water cooled cables can be thinner.
  • edited December 2018
    Tesla could charge twice as fast with the same thickness copper if they double the voltage.
  • @tes-s,
    might have to thicken the insulation though.
  • edited December 2018
    I doubt that a 400 volt battery is going to survive being charged with 800 volts.
  • edited December 2018
    <<I doubt that a 400 volt battery is going to survive being charged with 800 volts.>>

    I'm no electronics guru but assume you can bank more cells serially for charging and switch down again for usage - or indeed change the motors for higher voltage ones to keep current down. Nor is it beyond the wit of man to build small enough transformers to drop and split the incoming voltage into parallel chargers within the car like plugging in two or more lines. There's also new emerging battery technologies such as lithium air. Interesting times ahead
  • edited December 2018
    Our cells are being pushed over their limits now, but Tesla's advanced cooling system is keeping them from popping like firecrackers. I doubt we can charge much faster than we are now.
  • edited December 2018
    Changing the pack voltage to 800 volts would require a complete redesign of the entire drive train. The incoming voltage at a supercharger is 400+ volts DC. Transformers don't work on DC.
  • edited December 2018
    incoming voltage to the car at a
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