When & How Will The EV Charging Plug Be Standardized

edited November -1 in General
It appears the largest majority of people possible posting here including myself understand that EV's are here to stay. The percentage of the EV fleet will only grow over time. For the good of the nascent EV industry and the vehicle owner's do you not think it is about time for a regulatory agency to define a standard plug configuration? Personally I think it is past time. Why has this not been accomplished? I could make allowances in the earlier days of EV adoption but now it is obvious to all but the most recalcitrant and hard core ICE aficionado's that an EV plug configuration definition needs to be established. Let's discuss this and see if we can accelerate this much needed process.


  • It will happen exactly 1 year, 2 months, 3 days, 11 hours, and 23 minutes after the plug for computer monitors is standardized.
    Seriously, though this has been discussed many times in the past 25 years. The problem today is that the 3 fast charging standards were developed for different purposes. CHAdeMO was designed as a urban backup charger for those rare occasions when you get a little far from home and need a little extra juice to get back. Tesla's standard was designed to be a small, clean connector that can handle everything from 120volt 8amps, 1 KW AC to 250 KW DC Superchargers. CCS was designed by ICE companies that did not want EVs, to conflict with Tesla and make use of the J-1772 connector which had carefully been made to NOT support high power charging AND be delayed past when Tesla actually had to start selling cars.
    Europe went their own way to intentionally NOT be compatible with US systems (that were already in place) as a protectionist move to make it harder for American companies to sell in Europe.
    Discuss all you want but good luck with accelerating anything.
    I'm sure Tesla will have adapters when it becomes a big problem.
  • edited November -1
    Thanks for humoring me as well as the trip down memory lane. Do all non-Tesla US sold EV's use the CCS plug? Is VAG installing only CCS throughout the US as they build-out the Electrify America network?
  • edited March 2019
    @Earl and Nagin - Excellent! Tesla still has the best connection by far.

    Remember most automakers have been trying to kill EVs and have mostly made fugly short-range compliance EVs. By making it harder to charge with crummy connector standards (CSS, J1772 and CHAdeMO) it fits their narrative that EVs are a pain, there is no easy charging available, and you should buy one of their ICE cars instead. Only because of Tesla is this slowly changing. Even then, automakers have no real plans for making charging easy - with clunky connectors, inconstant networks and cumbersome charging operation. To bad none are smart enough to work with Tesla's Superchargers and connection standard.
  • edited March 2019
    @Jeff - Nope, All Japanese EVs use CHAdeMO. Conder the Leaf is one of the more successful EVs. In the US, actual EVs on the road are mostly Tesla or Leafs. CSS EVs are a rare breed so far.
  • @Jeff Hudson,
    You're welcome.
    No, EVs other than Tesla have the J-1772 port for AC charging up to 20 kW. If equipped, they have either a CCS or a CHAdeMO for DC Fast charging.
    VAG, from what I can tell is installing one CHAdeMO port along with CCS ports as they build-out the EA network.
    In my one try of an EA CHAdeMO port, I couldn't coax the charger into releasing the connector so I could plug in. I know of some folks who have succeeded in other places.
  • edited March 2019
    I have used the CHAdeMO charger near my house a few times with my Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. That one happens to be free and uses chargepoint to control. I have also used other CHAdeMO EVgo ports at local malls, etc. and they all work even though the price is quite expensive.

    I have not used the Electrify America ports as there are none near me yet.
  • edited March 2019
    Thanks everybody. GM chose to use the CCS connector with the Bolt. How about commenting on what the rest of GM or Ford or FCA charging connectors will be going forward.
  • edited March 2019
    Jeff, I agree with you that things will be much better for E owners IF and WHEN there is a "standard". And I think it will happen. And I believe it will end up being CCS. (I say that because that is what Tesla is putting on their cars going to Europe). It will be easy for Tesla to adapt US Tesla vehicles to CCS when the time comes. It just makes sense to have a "standard" just like home outlets.
  • edited March 2019
    I believe that CCS will become the standard also. CHAdeMO has too few companies using it, and of course Tesla has exactly one company.

    The only issue is what happens to all the Tesla cars when Tesla switches super chargers to CCS? Lets hope that Tesla has a CCS adapter planned (or is working on one). I have the CHAdeMO adapter, and it only works with S & X. It would be nice if it worked with 3 also.

    But I do not know the exact signalling differences between CHAdeMO, CCS, and Tesla. One would guess that there are similarities, but I do not know the complete spec.
  • edited March 2019
    Europe has standardized on the CCS connector. Model 3s sold in Europe come with the CCS connector. Tesla is installing CCS cables on the European Superchargers in addition to the European Tesla connectors which are more like the J-1772 connectors.

    The CCS connector is the de facto North American standard because the European and North American manufacturers will use it. I expect Tesla will switch when the size of the CCS charging network approaches the size of the Supercharger network. Of course, with a million Teslas on the road by next year, operators of non-Tesla charging facilities may decide to include Tesla proprietary connectors to get the revenue if they are not owned or controlled by traditional car manufacturers.
  • I was told by Tesla engineers early on that their signaling is pretty much the same as CCS, therefore, a simple mechanical adapter should suffice, similar to the J-1772 one we all use. CHAdeMO has an entirely different signalling protocol and has some strange grounding requirements making an adapter a bit more complex and expensive as shown by the Model S/X CHAdeMO adapter.
    Clearly, the Tesla adapter is the superior one, however, given that Europe has put a government bias toward CCS (or against Tesla) and that the rest of the auto industry dislikes each other but agree on one thing -- they hate Tesla, it won't surprise me if CCS emerges at some point. Tesla may continue with their superior plug and provide adapters or they may go native CCS in the future.
    IMHO: It is too early to worry about since the only really available truly fast chargers are Tesla. If VAG or someone else wants to pay for deployment of other standards then I'm ok with adapters in the short term.
    I did use a CHAdeMO adapter last weekend because we stayed overnight in a Model S, with no Destination chargers available. We were in the middle of a desert, about halfway between Superchargers in any direction. We wanted to top off to be sure to make it over a mountain to the Supercharger on our path instead of going out of the way to the closest Supercharger. There was a CHAdeMO charger nearby so it was convenient although slower (36 kW) than a Supercharger would have been. Adapters definitely are nice to increase one's options. Of course, there is slated to be a Supercharger in the town 'soon' as well.
  • edited March 2019
    Not on topic, but I wanted to suggest that, given NYC's report praising savings by city's using electric vehicles, people write their municipal administrations citing report, and Tesla could do the same.
  • edited March 2019
    That's a good point. Seems to me there is hugh market potential for commercial fleets switching to EV's. But, at this point I don't see how Tesla has the current ability to produce much more than they already are. But somebody is going to take advantage of that market sooner or later. Would be nice if it were an American company.
  • @lar_lef,
    Unfortunately, Tesla, being a premium vehicle, is kind of taboo for city governments. The other EVs (except the Bolt which is hard to get hold of) take a lot of work to be useful, making them a bit of a risk for a city government.
    Hopefully, the Bolt and Model 3 will start to become viable options for municipalities now.
    Another challenge is that fleet maintenance managers often don't like EVs (or Front Wheel Drive) since they don't know how to handle them.
  • edited March 2019
    @E and N

    Fremont PD has recently acquired a used Model S as a police car.

    There was some negative reaction in my neighbor hood and I was able to show that the cost is equivalent to a new cop car, except with the added bonus of superior performance, quietness and being clean.
  • edited March 2019
    In Europe EV´s make a ton of sense with fuel prices at approx. USD 5.60 per gallon, there are several cities which have Model S as police cars already, I expect these fleets to grow significantly with Model 3.

    Avis bought 280 Model 3´s in Norway and another car rental company in Germany about 100.

    Basel Switzerland PD recently bought Model S for their police cars, they got in trouble, reason was that their driving data would be shared to a private outside entity, meaning Tesla, which is not allowed as per their vehicle purchasing standards since it could compromise the institution.
  • edited November -1
    @El Mirio - That's odd for Switzerland., There has always been an option in the car to disable sharing data. It could be that the option could be turned on by a driver although I'm not sure why they would do that.
  • edited March 2019
    "Spying" on the that's a new one. :).......
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