Model S

Elon announced future battery replacement for M3, what about MS?

edited November -1 in Model S
Elon announced the M3 was built according to “commercial” specs, with the body designed to last #1 million miles, and batteries #3-#5 hundred k...and also announced a future battery pack replacement...I know the S was designed differently, but still hoping for a similar program for the S. Others have commented that they have had their S battery packed swapped out, so it would seem something similar for the S is very possible. For those that had the S battery pack replaced, wasn’t this done in a few hours?? Therefore, why not for the S???
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Comments

  • edited April 2019
    Probably more of a supply issue to date. They will be replacing modules on the 3.
  • edited April 2019
    The S and X were designed for battery swapping that was attempted at one location, so it is very easy to remove and install. So the physical act of charging is not the issue.

    But the administrative job might be the issue here. The procedure at corporate need to be implemented,
    Etc.
  • edited April 2019
    It takes a few hours at a service center. Harris Ranch robots with human assistance could do it in several minutes. They’ve not allocated resources to building replacement batteries. Vast majority are under warranty and get replaced with refurbished faulty batteries.
  • edited November -1
    You can buy a replacement battery for the S/X or 3 today if it's out of warranty (and very few are out of warranty yet). Don't like that after 200K miles the SOC dropped 6% - go ahead and buy a new battery. Tesla would be happy to take your cash. Seems a bit silly to me, but whatever floats your boat.
  • edited April 2019
    @Bighorn - "... replaced with refurbished faulty batteries"

    I don't think that's what you meant? I hope not :)
  • edited April 2019
    I believe he means- faulty batteries that have been refurbished. Happened to me with my 2013 P85.

    Techs told me that they used to trouble shoot the battery pack and replace the offending section (module?) but now they send the whole battery pack out to the gigafactory once they have a refurbished pack to replace it. So the factory is doing the diagnosis and module swaps I guess.

    Just for clarification - My understanding is the best way to refer to the car’s ‘battery’ is to call it a battery pack, which is comprised of modules of several actual batteries. If that’s wrong, well, now you know what I’m talking about!

    My hope is that current batteries last long enough for higher density, safer, lighter replacement batteries to come into production. Kinda like solar, getting better every year in cost & efficiency. Just saw a headline where someone had figured out how to get another 19% out of the same surface area.

    To quote Timbuk3- the future’s so bright, I gotta wear them shades.
  • edited November -1
    Meant to be read that they were faulty, but refurbished. I was down 11.5% at 197k miles which is on the curve. I’ve not heard that they’ve made replacement batteries available after the one or two very early in.
  • edited November -1
    @Prescott - Agreed, I should be using "battery pack" instead of battery. Sort of a shorthand that can get confusing.

    @Bighorn - Not sure of the replacement battery pack price, but I thought it was north of $20K.

    Can't see any real demand for paid pack replacements for years. Lots of people seem to think they'd replace their pack, but I expect most will sell the car first and move onto a new car. Those that bought used, are unlikely to be in a position to drop another $20K+ into the purchase for 5-10% more range either.
  • edited April 2019
    TT- do you know if putting a (just for illustration sake) 2x capacity battery will also require a lot of other components to be replaced or updated? I get the feeling it’s not like having a larger gas tank.

    The IDEA of buying a replacement pack at some point is attractive, however in 5 years or so the tech will be so different that I suspect you are correct in thinking we would be more likely to buy new cars with the latest stuff. That might be too soo for most of us to buy a car with no steering wheel & full autonomous driving but who knows!
  • edited April 2019
    Early packs were priced in the mid 40s and now about half that, but I don’t know if it’s an option to buy electively. Jason Hughes would be the one to ask.

    I use traction battery or battery pack (to discriminate from the 12V), made up of bricks or modules, made up of cells.
  • edited April 2019
    Yes, replacement packs are available for the S and X. I have seen lots of people posting they got their pack replaced. Never seen someone post they could not not get a replacement pack.
  • edited April 2019
    @tes
    Electively? I had my S pack replaced, but it was a warranty issue as are all the other replacements I’m aware of.
  • edited April 2019
    We've already established they will replace packs. Warranty / non-warranty is just some haggling over price.

    “Churchill: "Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?"
    Socialite: "My goodness, Mr. Churchill... Well, I suppose... we would have to discuss terms, of course... "
    Churchill: "Would you sleep with me for five pounds?"
    Socialite: "Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!"
    Churchill: "Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price”
  • edited April 2019
    Next year 2012 cars will be out of the 8 year battery/drive train warranty. I'm very curious the % of owners that may need a battery pack replacement, not for normal degradation, but for a module failure like BH or complete catastrophic failure. I seems quite a few cars after 150 or 200K miles have needed a full pack replacement, under warranty for now of course. Not really worried myself, but it could mean negative publicity if owners have to cough up $20 -or 25K for a refurbished pack. It could be interesting... hopefully battery costs will continue to decline over time
  • edited April 2019
    I am well aware of the current warranty for the battery packs...and I am not referring to that...but rather once out of warranty, why not offer the option to upgrade range. Ie. pre refresh 60 kw to a 100 kw (or even higher?)? This would also seem to support sustainability. Yes, I could always buy another S, but if my cars body is still in great shape, I am happy with my AP1, why potentially junk it? Perhaps I do want to keep my production year 2014 S60 for 20 years...but the only thing I want to change is to upgrade the battery? I would sure rather pay a premium to Tesla than an aftermarket supplier for that service.
  • edited April 2019
    I for one would love to be able to replace my 2015 MS85D battery pack with one using 2170s architecture utilized in the M3. We have averaged 108% in our RWD M3 over past 14 months, which blows me away with how much more efficient it is relative to our MS. I would expect a huge improvement in range/efficiency with the newer battery pack.
  • edited April 2019
    MySin_AZ- I hear you! I think if there is a large enough jump in capacity you’ll need other components upgraded as well, but I’m not sure. Someone here should have a clue about that.

    IF that is true, then a HV battery pack upgrade is more expensive than just the pack. Right?
  • edited April 2019
    @PrescottRichard - In the past (other than one known case) Tesla has not allowed upgrades (i.e. going from a 60 to an 85 for example). Also the pack connector changed a couple of years ago (around the introduction of the 100) such that new packs are not a direct retrofit into older cars. The connector may be able to be upgraded, but it does make the job quite a bit more complex (and adds labor and parts). Coolant distribution also changed internally with the 100, but I don't know if the actual coolant pack connections changed.

    I'm not aware of any other issues, such as wiring or BMS changes since 2012 to today. I'm sure the software did change - something that may be fairly easy to handle - my guess is the pack tells the car which software component to use to match the pack.

    Now if the batteries in the pack were switched to the 2170 style AND you wanted 250 kW Supercharging, then port cables would need to be replaced to handle the larger charging currents. The contactor switching AC/DC portion is also going to need an upgrade. The port might also need replacement. You could get the 2710 cell pack and limit Supercharging to 120-145 kW range without all the extra replacement parts and labor. Not sure there would be a lot of value with a 2170 retrofit pack by itself. It might not even have more range than a current 100 kW pack, as Tesla could make the 100 kW pack out of 2170 cells, but just make it with less cost.
  • edited April 2019
    Sort of like a laptop computer. Rarely is it worth getting a new battery - when the battery gives out, probably time for a new computer.

    Replacing a failed battery module - sure. Putting a new battery in an 8+ year old car?? I don't see it.
  • edited April 2019
    Not true. A replacement laptop battery is less than $50 for most brand from Amazon, a new laptop would cost several times that amount.

    New battery after 8+ years for an MS is pretty much the equivalent of a new motor in an ICE. It'll run for another 8+ years if the body is in good condition.
  • edited November -1
    $20K MS battery is only a quarter of the cost of a new MS.
  • edited April 2019
    Elon did mention the ability to upgrade the battery in the S/X in the future when the jump in battery capacity makes it worthwhile then.
  • edited November -1
    I wonder if they will be able to retrofit solid state batteries in the future?
  • edited April 2019
    @Tesla-David The increase in efficiency is not due to the battery pack. Two factors come into play on the 3 RWD, the motor is a different more efficient design and Tesla underrated the range of the LR RWD.
  • edited April 2019
    And the Model 3 gets better range because it is a lighter and smaller car..

    @Mathew98 "$20K MS battery is only a quarter of the cost of a new MS"

    But $20K may be the total car's value in 8 years when you might consider replacing it. Really can't see it making much sense. Like replacing an ICE engine for $4K in a car worth $4K. Value will go up slightly, but not much.
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