Model 3

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My New Model 3 SR+ Only Has 220 Mile Range

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Comments

  • edited February 2020
    "FISHEV, my window sticker say 220 but the configuration say SR+ configuration."

    Tesla is legally bound to the range on the sticker so 220 miles is going to be it.
  • The Monroney sticker only states how the car was configured when it left the factory. Options can be added or removed at the time of delivery to the customer. The SR is just software limited for useable battery capacity compared to the SR+.

    As has been stated numerous times, if you want to know the useable capacity of your battery, you need to measure the energy expended (kWh) from depleting the fully charged battery. The battery meter range estimate does not do that.
  • edited February 2020
    "Yes. The car doesn’t measure battery capacity, and scan my tesla is calculating based on imprecise estimate."
    So how does the scan my tesla app measure it? Wouldn't it be as simple as V*I =P?
    If I use the 48.2kwh reading in getting divided by the rated consumption of 217 Wm/h if the SR+ I get the exact 221 miles of range with 100% charge the car itself is reading.
    I dont have the Ah rating of the battery so I can't do the P=I*v check but I'm eithet two different methods are doing the exact thing "imprecise " or there is a.9.1% degregation of the expected 54kwh battery in the SR+
  • edited February 2020
    "Yes. The car doesn’t measure battery capacity, and scan my tesla is calculating based on imprecise estimate."
    So how does the scan my tesla app measure it? Wouldn't it be as simple as V*I =P?
    If I use the 48.2kwh reading in getting divided by the rated consumption of 217 Wm/h if the SR+ I get the exact 221 miles of range with 100% charge the car itself is reading.
    I dont have the Ah rating of the battery so I can't do the P=I*v check but I'm eithet two different methods are doing the exact thing "imprecise " or there is a.9.1% degregation of the expected 54kwh battery in the SR+
  • edited February 2020
    "As has been stated numerous times, if you want to know the useable capacity of your battery, you need to measure the energy expended (kWh) from depleting the fully charged battery."

    It's more what Tesla is saying is the car's Rated Range. In this case, the sticker says purchased car is has 220 miles Rated Range. If you purchased "additional range" from Tesla and have it in writing then Tesla needs to change the rated range for the car to 240(?) and be able to prove it delivered the product for the payment.

    Only way to for Tesla to "prove" it did that is by changing the Rated Range and Rated Wh/mi to match the 240.

    Is there a proof of purchase of the 240 mile range?
  • edited February 2020
    "So how does the scan my tesla app measure it?"
    _________________

    It doesn't. It just provides you with an estimate and reporting out to .1 kWh just gives a false sense of precision. If you look at what the app produces and claims to be degradation, it is just an aggregation of the battery meter range estimates displayed over time. That's not degradation. Degradation might be a factor, but it is not possible to isolate degradation from the other factors that influence the range estimate. That's why the range estimate goes up and down, whereas degradation only goes down. This is also why Tesla refers to it as an estimate and not a measurement.

    The only way to precisely calculate the usable battery capacity is to measure the energy expended from 100% to depletion under very tightly controlled conditions. Anything else is just an estimate. This is why the EPA testing includes charging the car to 100% and then driving it down to depletion. If this could be done accurately by the car's BMS, then there wouldn't even be a need for this type of testing.

    This isn't like a gas gauge in an ICE vehicle, where you can directly measure the volume of gasoline by simply using a sending unit with a float. Quite frankly, gas gauges aren't typically very precise either and only report a scale from E to F, but no one seems to care.

    Outside of a laboratory, the best an owner can do is to measure the battery capacity with the process I outlined earlier in this thread. If you are so concerned about it, then take the time to actually measure your car's usable battery capacity.
  • edited February 2020
    Holy shit, so who is right and wrong? That's all these damn battery degradation threads boil down to.

    Nah do this, or get this app, do this, do that.

    Just. Drive. The. Car.
  • edited February 2020
    Tesla did it to themselves by marketing range instead of efficiency.
  • edited February 2020
    teslamazing | February 27, 2020

    Just. Drive. The. Car.

    ___________________

    ^^^ Yeah, that!
  • edited February 2020
    “ "Yes. The car doesn’t measure battery capacity, and scan my tesla is calculating based on imprecise estimate."
    So how does the scan my tesla app measure it? Wouldn't it be as simple as V*I =P?”

    Calculating power and measuring stored energy are fundamentally different.

    I suppose if you drained your car battery pack into a power meter which records data in the time domain you could measure its energy capacity.
  • edited February 2020
    Whats crazy, and yes i find this crazy, is that people ignore the fact that people who have owned Tesla Model S for 6 years or more, report that their efficiency has not changed any significant amount.
  • edited February 2020
    I agree on the just drive the car comment, as it is the best car I've ever owned or driven, but that precludes me from ever questioning the inner workings of the machine and just accept on blind faith all is right in the world. That would be religion not engineering or science. I would expect on a Tesla forum this conversation should be welcome.
    With that being said I appreciate the insights and advice provided and if I ever have a day to waste driving down the highway consuming exactly 217 Wm/h with the battery at 100% going to 0%. Ill spend that day doing something much more important. :)

    "Calculating power and measuring stored energy are fundamentally different."
    I completely understand, I have been charging lipo. batteries for many years for my all too many hobbies and the capacity of a battery is connected to the total amps drawn in total not any time based voltage and current draw.
    But the estimates made of a batteries power capacity in the kw/h areas others have said are interpolations "estimates" that do hold value and just because it doesn't agree with your blind faith should not be completely discounted. At the same token it is likely why Tesla doesn't actually list the battery capacities like other manufactures do to avoid any definitive my battery id worse than yours conversation.

    Bottom line and I still question if I drive my SR+ from 100% to 0% at only 217 Wm/h I will not likely get 240 miles of range, and suspect it will be closer to the interpolated "estimated" range of 221 +/-2%.
    I neither have time to prove it mathematically or via a real world drive test.
    I will bow out of the conversation now.
    Thank you.
  • edited February 2020
    “ Bottom line and I still question if I drive my SR+ from 100% to 0% at only 217 Wm/h I will not likely get 240 miles of range”

    Probably. But I doubt it’s necessarily predicable based on extrapolation.

    Overall I agree: don’t have the time. Further, it’s inconsequential to me. Other use cases may vary.
  • edited February 2020
    stingray.don, teslamazing and other who does not think it matters to pay additional 5k, and not get the range which it supposed to give, can ignore this Range issue thread. As the start of this thread is with Range issue.

    All who is having this issue, I contacted service and they are giving excuse that they thing batter does not have issue and they can't do much. So, only option is to go to the Dispute resolution. Link to that (may be a few of you already have done, so ignore, it is for others) https://www.ncdsusa.org/ and start the dispute. We need to get to the resolution, as paying money for something which is not there, is not right.
  • edited February 2020
    neows6

    Well said. I totally agree, as people who are giving all these suggestions, either do not have this issue with their car, or don't care about it or just have enough time to waste. Let us start filing dispute and once enough people are doing that, there will be some clarity/outcome.
  • edited February 2020
    stingray.don

    One question, based on your feedback it seems like you are a Tesla Employee. Is that correct? (sorry for asking, just wanted to know if we are getting feedback from a internal employee or not). As similar feedback were provided by the service people and which seems like all the service people have been given the doc what they need to tell for this issue, as they are getting multiple service request for this issue.
  • edited February 2020
    Get ur lawyers and sue.

    Otherwise, keep it moving.
  • edited February 2020
    “stingray.don, teslamazing and other who does not think it matters to pay additional 5k, and not get the range which it supposed to give”.
    _________________

    I never said that it doesn’t matter. You should get what you paid for. My only point is that you are using an estimate rather than a measurement. If you actually measure your battery capacity, you may very well find that you get close to the SR+ rated range.

    Analogy: you just bought 240 cans of soda. I take a look and tell you that I estimate that there are only 200 cans of soda. Do you accuse the store of not giving you what you paid for, or do you take time to actually count the cans?

    I’m just saying that if you are so concerned about the battery capacity, then take the time to measure it first.
  • edited February 2020
    "I’m just saying that if you are so concerned about the battery capacity, then take the time to measure it first."

    Tesla didn't sell him increased battery capacity. Tesla sold him increased range. Tesla sells all its cars based on range not battery capacity.
  • edited February 2020
    “One question, based on your feedback it seems like you are a Tesla Employee.”
    _______________

    That gave me quite a chuckle. No, I do not work for Tesla. I am just an owner with a slightly unhealthy obsession.
  • edited February 2020
    “Tesla didn't sell him increased battery capacity. Tesla sold him increased range. Tesla sells all its cars based on range not battery capacity.“
    _____________

    And if you know the useable battery capacity, then you can easily calculate range based on the EPA efficiency to compare with the rated range. I can help you with the math if you like.
  • edited February 2020
    stingray.don

    Thanks for not getting offended with my question about being an employee (appreciate it).
    I did measure and that is what I mentioned in my first post, that all those thing you do when you notice the issue before coming to forum and try to refer to collective intelligence (in forum posts). Also, as other people who are facing this issue mentioned, Tesla charge 5K to give this additional range, so, it should be easy to prove for them if they have it there! Anyway, I think you mentioned your feedback and I understood and confirming nothing is working. Thanks.
  • edited February 2020
    teslamazing

    As your name suggest, you already have a preconceived notion about Tesla, so, I understand where you are coming from, and you do not have much to contribute then the type of remarks you are posting. Not helping anyone!!!
    Anyway, Thanks for your time, hope you do not spend more of it for this post.
  • edited February 2020
    Y’all twiddle your fingers in here so much and spend so much time going back and forth trying to get help from general public. Still don’t have a definite answer after numerous threads.

    I suggest you work with a lawyer and draft up something and sue.

    Otherwise, like I said, keep it moving.
  • edited February 2020
    “I did measure and that is what I mentioned in my first post”
    _____________

    Sorry, i didn’t realize that you measured your battery capacity. What was your usable capacity (kWh)? What was your methodology?
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