General

Range: How much is enough?

edited November -1 in General
I have had my Model 3 for nearly a year. In the summer, I can get up to 330 miles on a single charge, on relatively flat highway, at 65 mph. In the winter, it’s a different story: 0 degrees Fahrenheit drops that range to an even 200 miles (with the cabin heat off).

This is more than enough for almost all local driving, but I make regular cross country trips of 670-720 miles each way. In the summer the Model 3 cross country driving experience is almost as good as in my wife’s minivan, which goes >450 miles on a tank of gas. Almost. In the winter, forget it. I would much rather drive the minivan when the temperature drops below 40 degrees F.

For the Model 3 cross country experience to compare favorably with ICE, I would like to see a 600 mile summer range (360 miles winter). I would be willing to pay for it, too, provided that the extra battery capacity didn’t carry an exorbitant “premium” surcharge.

What do other people think?
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Comments

  • edited November -1
    600 would be nice
  • edited October 2019
    I am a rational realistic individual. I want 1000 miles of range, but understand why i cant.

    Realistically, have driven 5 hours without stopping many times. Put that into perspective, over 350 miles between stopping, went to the bathroom, filled the tank and continued going.

    That being said, Model Y AWD range is estimating on their site to be 280 miles. Thats really quite small. Gives you about a 3 hour driving window without accounting for environmental variance. Wish it was closer to 350 so i could take a 4 hour drive by myself. So to conclude, 300 miles is fine. Always want more though.
  • edited November -1
    For the general public, it is purely psychological. So when the range equals a gasoline car that will be the first step towards acceptance. The other part, charging up an empty battery to full in 5 minutes will be the next step. I know that without a major break through, that will never happen. People are so conditioned to starting out with a full tank of gas and then not returning to a gas station until near empty and then filling up in 5 minutes. It is going to take a change in the way people think to make them realize that plugging in everyday over the course of entire month only takes 5 minutes.
  • SOSO
    edited October 2019
    That range drop to 200 seems excessive. Do you preheat your car before unplugging and driving?
  • edited October 2019
    Hi SO. The drop to 200 miles seems excessive to me, too, but that's what it is. It's consistent with measurements I've made at other cold temperatures. Fortunately I don't see 0 degrees F very often. On the day that I measured, the car started out garaged, above freezing, for the first 100 miles, then got good and cold for the 2nd 100. No preheating.
  • edited November -1
    This is how I see it, these are my considerations-

    I don’t like to go below 20% because I’m weird like that. Something can always come up, particularly on the freeways here in AZ where all of the sudden you gotta go a different way.

    Everything except ‘perfect’ weather impacts range in a bad way.

    Charging over 80% takes substantially longer than up to 80%

    Capacity degrades over time, so starting off with more is desirable.

    My driving is not typical, it’s either under 30 miles a day or 200+ miles with some days of no driving/.

    SO, a battery that has 400 miles of range between 20 and 80% would be more than enough to kill range anxiety. In real world usage that might be 300 mile with weather, hills, etc.

    That’s a battery with 600 miles rated if my quick math is correct. Perhaps one with 500 miles that charges quickly up to 90% would also be ‘As good’ in the real world.

    That kind of capacity is a ways off for a mass produced car! We’re someone to give me a Raven S I’d probably be more than happy for the next 10 years :)

    Do most people NEED that much range? Nope. But perceptions are reality for most out there. I often point out to people that if I plug my car in every day I have a ‘full’ tank every morning. There is no analogy in the ICE world to that. .

    That’s just me, but whatever your typical usage is I think it would be best to have that max number be in between 20% and 80% so you can skip charging anywhere else beside home.

    If I lived in Europe somewhere I would prolly only want 1/2 of that capacity.
  • edited October 2019
    I think with gas cars, people do not want to refuel in the middle of the trip since gas prices could be really high. They would still need to take restroom and eating breaks, and generally split the tasks of refuelling and taking care of bio needs. Might as well charge a long range EV during bio stops. The cost to produce and drive around with a bigger gas tank is small compared to making and driving around with a bigger battery, so the current economics don't support the latter. It also doesn't seem to be scalable if there were to be more EVs on the road.
  • edited October 2019
    300 miles is perfect

    Stops are fun
  • edited October 2019
    Would it be blasphemous to consider putting a diesel cabin heater in a Tesla?
  • edited October 2019
    Tesla could achieve infinite range and the shorts and their oil shills in the wholly owned media would find a way to spin it as bad news. No amount is enough.
  • edited November -1
    As a rule EV range is about 50% of advertised on the low end and ~70% of advertised on average. This is to account for all the variables. This assumes you want to use the EV the way you use an ICEV and only “gas up” or charge every 2 or 3 days and leave ~25% in reserve. Anything above that is idealistic and really only achieved on long road trips in good weather on good terrain. This is hidden if you charge every night. You won’t notice the vampire drain and inefficiency build up over a few days charging nightly. I find that my P90D gets 150 to 180 miles from a 90% charge. Advertised was 265 then revised down to 256 due to my wheel and tire configuration. Most of the time depending on weather I can drive from Los Angeles to San Diego and back if I charge to 90% and take it easy. My car now has high mileage and some battery degradation so I charge to 100% when I take this trip and use range mode for some additional margin.
  • edited October 2019
    400 miles would be the sweet spot based on the way today’s batteries perform. This way you know you can do 200 or so miles between charges to 90%.
  • edited October 2019
    Darth! where you been?
    We miseed your FUD
    (not)
  • edited November -1
    apparently only 50% usable capacity.
  • edited October 2019
    Sup @Jimglas
  • edited October 2019
    The 2020 Roadster is spec'd at 620 miles of range, which should squash any range anxiety issues or those interested only in denigrating Tesla or EV's in general, though there are rumors of a battery with a 1,000,000 mile capacity being in the works:

    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/298907-new-study-details-teslas-million-mile-battery-tech

    https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-may-soon-have-a-battery-that-can-last-a-million-miles/
  • edited October 2019
    Uh, @blue_adept, that's a million mile lifespan, not range.
  • edited November -1
    No extra range is needed. It’s much cheaper and easier to double Supercharger density from every 80 miles to every 40 miles.

    Would take fewer than 300 additional Superchargers.

    At $250,000 per station, that’s an insignificant $75M dollars.

    Less than Porsche spent on “journalists” for the Taycan junkets.
  • edited November -1
    Range acceptability depends a lot on your perspective.

    My previous car was a Grand Cherokee, with 26 gallon tank. Would usually be good for over 450 miles. Liked the idea of the long range until I used it. Biologically I was not able to keep up with the car and needed to drive miles of uncomfortability with a full bladder, and felt worn out after driving so long without a break.

    Traded in for a 75X. Largest Tesla, with the smallest available battery. Got quickly used to stopping from time to time on longer trips. It charged slowly and gave me plenty of time for bathroom, meal or grabbing a Dairy Queen :)

    Now I have a Raven 100 Long Range. It seems to glide forever, with plenty of range. It also charges MUCH faster per mile than the 75X ever could.

    Now I actually feel a bit rushed to get in my duties while stopped for charging. Usually get prompted to return to my car earlier than I wish, because it is "almost full".

    Have adapted well to long distance EV travel. Would never want to go back to smelly gas stations and the horror of paying $80.00 to fill the tank with polluting and toxic gasoline.

    I understand that many people have an aversion to change, and will look for justification to avoid giving up their gassers. But the world has indeed changed, and it is no longer acceptable to continue buying gasoline and burning it as a way to move around the Earth.

    There is a reason that no ICE vehicles exhaust-pipes run out of the front of their cars. They do not want to breath their own toxins. They, however, happily spew it into the face of the driver behind them :(
  • edited October 2019
    “Now I actually feel a bit rushed to get in my duties while stopped for charging. Usually get prompted to return to my car earlier than I wish, because it is "almost full".”

    This is exactly what I have been saying about those wishing for even faster charging. On a trip to FL recently, I stopped to charge in Port Orange, FL. It was dinner time and the car said I needed 30 mins to charge to continue my trip. By the time I ordered my food, I was down to 15 mins. Now I wasn’t too concerned about the 15 mins because I had my actual SOC level set to 90%. When I got back to my car, I got hit with $5.50 idling fees because the site per the message was one of those that Tesla caps out at 80% SOC because it was a high usage site and only 6 stalls.

    So wait until the V3 sites come on line for those with the newer cars..... What I wish Tesla would do, is when you plug in, a pop up window would ask if you plan on eating, this way it can throttle back the charging. In all of my travels using the supercharging network, never has it been even remotely practical for me to leave a restaurant to hike it back to the car to move it to avoid fees. This is especially true when traveling on your own.
  • edited November -1
    There is no proof Earth is warming because of gas cars. BEVs need to get at least 200 miles range between charges every 2-3 days.
  • edited October 2019
    We aren’t quite there yet at reasonable cost.
  • edited November -1
    This is why everyone knows you are a frickin’ joke. Please remember this guy believes the earth is flat.

    https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fuels/hidden-cost-of-fossils
  • edited November -1
    SamO the joke is on you! I’m not the one who thinks what kind of car people drive will “save the earth”!
  • edited October 2019
    Uhhh. No dumbass. The joke is always on the idiot who doesn’t understand science.
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