Model X

Tesla service refuses to look at my X on battery issues.

edited November -1 in Model X
I've never had this with a car company. Tesla literally refuses to check my X for issues. My problem is that the computer doesn't predict battery charge or drain at all. So if I plug in to charge, it will say I'll be done in 40 minutes. 90 minutes later it finishes. I do understand that people charging next to me, weather, and near-capacity batteries will slow the charging. However, I would expect the computer to take that into account and not assume a 300mph charge throughout. Also, I have to hear from Tesla sales and fanbois that I only need a 20 minute charge. It's bullshit. Next, when I'm taking a trip, the car always wants me to slow down to make it to the next station. Example. 120 mile trip and I have 180 miles of charge. 10 minutes into the trip (driving across town at 50mph) the car warns me to stay under 70 mph or I won't make it. WTF? I have a 50% buffer on the car's range and I need to slow? On other trips we've had to drive (illegally) 50 MPH on the interstate just to limp to a supercharger when we had a 70 mile buffer at the outset. Again,Tesla refuses to allow me the privilege to drive 2 hours to the nearest service center to even look at it. Their response? The car works as designed. Designed to strand me in the middle of nowhere? Designed to make me sit for hours at superchargers?
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Comments

  • edited November -1
    very very busy troll flagged
  • edited December 2019
    @jimglas Could you enlighten me a bit if you are able? I have lurked on these forums for a while and am waiting for my X. I just got privilege to post today. I see this a lot in this forum. Someone comes in the forum and makes some pretty crazy statements. You are saying troll. What is the reason for this? I am assuming they are not legitimate. I don't have my Tesla yet, but I am smart enough to see they don't specify charging scenario and much more. What is the reason for this? And I thought you had to be a verified owner. Thanks for any help or info.
  • edited December 2019
    Sounds like there is nothing wrong with your battery. Not sure what you expect service to do.

    Not sure who is telling you a 20-minute charge is sufficient.For some 20 minutes is enough, others may need an hour. There are so many variables outside of Tesla's control and what you want to do or where you want to go.

    Ok, let's look at you entering a stall at a Supercharger. Two stalls are shared, so another car that arrives or leaves while you are attached will change the power you get for charging. Tesla has no way to predict the arrival and departures of other owners. So the calculation of how long it takes will never be 100% accurate.

    You don't seem to understand much about the battery, charging or efficiency. For example, if you're driving 85 mph, you'll get far less range than driving at 65 mph, the EPA rated range. This is true for ICE cars too, except the gas gauge is so imprecise, most ICE owners don't' realize it. The cold can also affect range. If you plan to drive very fast and/or in the cold, you need more indicated range than the direct miles to the next Supercharger or your destination.

    It may be worth reading this Supercharger guide to understanding more: https://teslatap.com/articles/supercharger-superguide/
  • edited December 2019
    @sillyleann - Actually I wouldn't rate marketbaba143 as a troll, but spam. It has a bunch of links totally unrelated to Tesla or this thread. We like to flag those out of existence (it takes about 7 owners to do that).
  • edited November -1
    @sillyleann: what he said^^^
  • edited December 2019
    also, he is posting the same nonsense on multiple threads (5 I counted)
  • edited December 2019
    and congrats on your car!
  • edited December 2019
    Leann thought jim was referring to the OP.

    Odds are that Tesla already looked at the battery remotely and told you the result. Google vinegar and honey.
  • edited December 2019
    Out of curiosity @wmyers, what MX do you have?
  • edited November -1
    Thanks everyone for all the input.

    Now, Back to the original topic.
  • edited November -1
    I have a 2018 75D. I already said that I understand that weather and co-charging affect the rate. The chargers I use have almost always been empty and I don't park next to an A if I'm on the B slot. Again, why would the Tesla computer be so dumb that it would assume a 300mph charge throughout when that won't happen ever? Yet it's so smart that it knows 10 minutes into a trip where I'm not driving fast that I'll need to keep speed way down or I won't make it when I have a 60 mile buffer? Im really tired of Tesla (and posters here) just saying "you don't understand how it works.". I have a max range of 150 miles when the car is full at 220 and that's not an issue? In what world?
  • edited December 2019
    @wmyers - "I have a max range of 150 miles when the car is full at 220 and that's not an issue? In what world?"

    The real world. We're trying to tell you that how you drive and/or the cold has a significant effect on the range. For example, you can drive at 30 mph in 70F weather and at 220 indicated range will actually travel well beyond 300 miles. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand. Other factors that have a smaller effect the range are weight (number of people and cargo), headwinds vs tailwinds, rain, tire pressure, tire type (22" has less range than 20"), and I'm sure a few others. Also if you have a trailer, that will dramatically affect range by pulling that brick through the wind. True of any type of vehicle - EV or ICE.
  • edited November -1
    How long have you owned this MX? Was there ever a time it worked like you were assuming?
  • edited December 2019
    OP - I understand your frustration but do not think there is an actual problem with your car based on what you've said. I respect your concerns and will not minimize them. Tesla does have some culpability here because the trip planning and battery status indications are generally incorrect - but only because they are unsophisticated algorithms that do not consider elevation changes, speed, temperature, vehicle weight loading and model/wheel differences, etc. Tesla's trip planner is more often than not wrong, but only because it assumes steady state conditions - but in my 160k miles driving three Teslas, I ve learned a lot of lessons about range - and find that the car's own estimates are accurate in standard (60 degrees, flat roads, 65 mph) conditions. I would almost never take the car's recommendation to stop Supercharging and move on, especially because many of my road trips are in winter. Like you, I've crept over high mountain passes at far below the speed limit in order to make the next charging station in sub-zero weather I have never been pleasantly surprised by the car exceeding expectations, but it often fails to meet its own expectations.

    There is some good news in the negativity associated with range anxiety. First, the newer cars are able to go a lot further than older EVs - I still want 400 miles range, but our new Raven MX long range has about 100 miles more range than the MS P85D that it replaced. Second, Superchargers are now fairly ubiquitous, so we can now go almost anywhere in the U.S. in almost any weather conditions. You do still need to be cautious about ensuring a cushion, but compared to my first road trips in 2013 when there were no Superchargers, and long waits at campgrounds or Level 2 chargers, we are in heaven. As good as refueling an ICE? Not close, but tolerable for many of us. The third kind of good news is that there some truly excellent route planning tools that are far better and more sophisticated than the tools built into Tesla's software. A Better Routeplanner takes weather and elevation changes into condition, has car-model-specific algorithms, and you can set a lot of parameters, like how much ending cushion you want, headwinds, battery degradation, payload, etc. I don't actually use it much anymore as the seat-of-my-pants approach works fine for most of our routes. https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

    Another tool that I've used in the past is evtripplanner.com - great back story and also way better than Tesla's tool. I just took a look and it does not seem to have been updated for a while, and does not have the latest Tesla models - it looks like abetterrouteplanner is more current. https://www.evtripplanner.com/

    Tesla has a very small installed base (a few hundred thousand) over which to spread development costs, will likely not be able to afford to attain the level of sophistication that comes with the likes of Microsoft or Apple, which have many millions of users over which to spread the costs for developing their environments. Although Tesla changed the game for the better, it is still a fact that driving an EV has comes with compromises - requiring a better and more aware driver, at least for now.
  • edited December 2019
    @Dave
    Good overview, but elevation has always been factored in. You can see it in the slope of the “Trip” graph. They’ve also added different efficiency figures for wheel configurations. All the unknowns are fully factored in by the 30 mile mark, so unless the angle of approach of the wind changes due to weather or routing or the weather changes, your arrival estimate should be spot on. My Model S starting estimate, despite significant degradation, is usually quite accurate, whereas it used to be off by up to 30% 5 years ago in 80 MPH zones.
  • edited December 2019
    OP,
    I was an overly anxious Range watcher in the first months driving my 2016 Model X 60D, until a friendly neighbor who was an early adopter told me about using the %-age screens instead of the Miles to Empty screens.
    It is soooo much easier and accurate to manage your energy when you switch. Monitoring becomes more meaningful and you can use the Trip monitor in %-age also,
  • edited January 7
    OP seems to be complaining about a feature from Tesla.

    When you start your trip, it makes it's best guess at your range or time to charge. As you drive, or charge, it constantly will take new information to correct it's original estimate to reflect the new data.

    Suppose you start charging. The computer assumes everything is working correctly. If during the charge it notices the feed from the charger is reduced, it will change your estimated time to charge.

    If you take off from a nice warm garage, it will estimate your miles of range. But then if you begin driving up a mountain at a high rate of speed, encounter headwinds and driving snow, it will re-compute to give you a nore accurate update of expected range. Then as you coast down that same mountain, it will again correct and give you the benefit of regeneration.

    The digital readouts are not promises the car gives you as to what your range will be. Just what it expects the range to be with the data it has when setting out.
  • edited January 9
    @wmyers are you confusing the "time it takes to continue your trip estimate" vs the "time it takes to reach your desired charge"? When you pull in to a supercharger with your navigation system on, it will estimate how long you need to stay there to get enough charge to reach your destination. The estimate does not indicate how long you need to wait to reach your defined charge limit.
  • edited February 17
    @harb is one of the funnier copy and paste spam bots. Didn't quite get it right :)
  • edited November -1
    not happy with it sale the car buy an ice period
  • edited February 22
    I am thinking of buying extended warranty. Is it worth paying over $5000?
  • edited February 22
    Depends how fast you accrue miles. If it’s going to last 4 years, probably, but not if you’re going to run through the miles in less than a year.
  • edited February 23
    So, what do you do if them looking at the battery doesn’t explain what is happenning? I have ‘18 MX75d. When bought, car had a rated range of 231 miles. I have never been able to get more than 170 out of 100% charge, regardless of driving habits. I’ve taken trips where I specifically paid attention & stayed under 65. What is a reasonable expectation? I don’t expect rated, but all this talk of cars getting more miles than rated is something I’ve never come close to experiencing. Tesla says battery is fine, but when I average 300wh/mi (according to my car) how are s it that i only get 170 miles on 75k of charge?
  • edited February 24
    @garykli - A lot of assumptions here. First is which you never have access to all 75 KWh of the battery. Some power is reserved at the top and bottom end to ensure the longevity of the battery. Estimates vary but assume at least 5 kWh is kept in reserve and not usable for driving. When new (75-5)/300 wh/mi = 233 miles, close to the EPA. My numbers are rough.

    You can expect 2-3% of battery degradation in the first year, and about 1% after that. Now when you say you get 170 miles, is that from a 100% charge to a 0% charge? On the next trip, before starting clear either the A or B trip meter in controls, and check it again when you are near 0% SOC. It should show you the actual power consumed, which you can see the true wh/mi. My guess is it is much higher than 300 wh/mi. 350 wh/mi is more typical in an X.

    The real-time indicator is for 30 miles, or less, depending on the control setting. This is not very useful to know what power was used during the entire trip.

    It might be worth reading my article I wrote a couple of weeks ago on range inaccuracies: https://teslatap.com/articles/range-university/
  • edited February 24
    Thanks Tesla Tap. Didn’t have the energy to address all the misapprehension.
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