Fisker Ocean

edited January 10 in General
Just watched YouTube vid by “Transport Evolved” on this nice looking suv/crossover supposedly coming out en masse 2022. If the pricing and specs and lease options are anywhere close to accurate, looks like a pretty disruptive product. Would love to see tesla follow suit with their lease programs. Of course whether this actually is delivered is a question mark.

80 kWh battery, $38k starting price, $379 per mo lease OF ANY LENGTH 3 months or 36 months.


  • edited January 10
    I haven't watched the video yet, but did they mention that there are next to little locations where you can buy a Fisker. For New England, you have to go to Long Island to look at/buy a Fisker product.
  • edited November -1
    The thing I keep wondering is where will this thing be made? We all know how much work Tesla did to create their assembly line. An EV is not the type of thing you deliver the CAD plans to the plant and get cars out the other end.

    I predict this will always be vaporware.
  • edited November -1
    It will be great if this thing condenses from vapor to an actual car.

    I saw a Fisker Karma once in Phoenix plugged in at a Blink station. It looked big and beautiful, then I researched the car and found out it was a hybrid which made me sad. Still, they DID sell a few Karma cars. That’s better than some other start ups.

    Why is it that for the last 10 years everything announced has been 2 years out from everyone else? Feels that way.
  • edited November -1
    Hopefully, the Ocean has a better software team that the Fisker Karma. The Karma was a bit of a nightmare, even for startup standards. Here's one owner's take on the Karma, which is funny if you don't own one:
  • Hope the Ocean has a better mechanical team than the Fisker Karma. A lot of the few that they made caught fire. Google it if you like.
  • edited November -1
    I wish them success but I was expecting something much nicer looking from Fisker.
  • edited November -1
    Oh cmon for that price, it’s an extraordinary looking all electric suv. As good or better than the ipace for literally half the price. …like the model 3, it won’t outshine it’s premium models (or should I say premium vapor ware).
  • edited November -1
    Weren’t they bought by a China company?
    They reverse engineered everything to fix all prop lens supposedy there were 10,000 of them
  • edited November -1
    @Maxxer - Yep the original Fisker Automotive went bankrupt and the assets were sold to Wanxiang Group. They revived the Karma and the company is called Karma Automotive.

    Fisker was hired to design the original Model S body, but unknown to Tesla, at the same time he was also creating his own design - the Karma. The Fisker S design was abandoned and Hans was brought in to design the Model S. It was a major nightmare for Tesla and lots of bad blood between Fisker and Tesla.

    The new Fisker is a new company separate from the old one. Hopefully, Fisker 2.0 will be better. It sounds and looks better, but getting a new car company off the ground and into production is not a trivial task. Making a great product is even tougher.
  • edited January 11
    It's the software, stupid.

    Main thing wrong with all offerings ICE or EV by legacy OEMs. They just don't get it: Panel gaps and the # of cupholders isn't what it's about anymore. It's the software and they are mediocre to bad at that, all of 'em.
  • Unfortunately, with Henrik Fisker, it was 100% about the design. That left 0% for mechanical, 0% for electrical, and 0% for software. All of his career, he had been suppressed, working for other auto companies where he had to wrestle with the ugly mechanical design tradeoffs presented to automobile designers (which are even worse when there's an ICE). Having his own company allowed him to do everything his way.
    He contracted out all of the engineering to the lowest bidders and they did exactly what he let them. He retained the design for himself.
    The result looked great but performed terribly in all regards -- who would have thunk?
    I've never met him but know folks who have worked for Fisker in the past. Needless to say, I put my money behind Tesla who had design, business, and engineering in their plans and execution.
    I probably wouldn't invest in @dmm1240 or any of the other folks who think it is all about the software either.
  • edited January 12
    Earl n Nagin +1. His focus was more art than function.
  • edited January 12
    Fisker??.....No, thanks!
  • edited November -1
    @ Earl and Nagin. Amusing. Apparently you took offense at my oblique takeoff of Bill Clinton's "It's the economy, stupid" reference to the core issue of one of his presidential campaigns back in the 1990s. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular and wasn't intended to be offensive.

    That said, let's examine what sets Tesla apart. An EV, at its core, is nothing more than a very large slot car we played with as kids. The major difference is a slot car drew power from the slot running around the track instead of carrying its own power source in the form of batteries, plus creature comforts such as air conditioning and so forth. The second major difference is the powertrain is an electric motor versus the gas/diesel engines found in ICE vehicles. Theoretically, one could build a slot car capable of carrying people with few changes.

    What makes EVs superior to ICE cars in performance? The electric motor, the fact that Tesla uses the skateboard concept to install the battery pack lending an EV superior stability and handling, and... software.

    Any company can build an EV. Several are desperately trying but can't come close to matching Tesla's offerings. Why? Software. The software Tesla installs to manage the battery packs to control charging and discharging has yet to be matched. One can build a supercharger network capable of using brute force to charge a battery pack quickly, provided there's a will and money to do it; what sets Tesla apart is how the software in the car and in the supercharger manages the flow of electricity to the battery pack promoting speed and longevity of the actual batteries. But what truly sets Tesla apart is the software used to manage the car and interact with the viewer. What frustrated the Fisker owner in the video? Nothing worked right. It was poorly designed, incomplete and inadequate. Think he'd buy another one? I don't.

    Tesla does indeed innovate and quite a bit in terms of actual physical design. They've consistently upgraded the efficiency of the electric motors they use. They have and continue to improve battery cell design. They do things like the patent announced last week that will allow Tesla to install glass in its cars that will take less power to heat and cool the cabin. When Tesla first started, the build quality on its vehicles -- the dreaded panel gaps -- was not up to the standards of other automakers; they've about caught up now.

    All those things in the previous paragraph can be learned and duplicated. A supercharger network can be duplicated if someone is willing to invest in it. Do it with enough money and throw enough people against it and it would be possible to duplicate Tesla's network in a couple of years. Tesla's electric motors are indeed superior, but not to the point that another auto manufacturer couldn't put out a vehicle that was in the ballpark with a Tesla. Electric motors aren't all that complicated. Granted, Tesla is several years ahead, but there is nothing they're doing that can't be reverse engineered.

    What, IMO, truly sets Tesla apart is the willingness to constantly tinker and improve. Steve Jobs brought out the iPhone knowing it would kill the iPod, but did it because it was a step forward. Most companies, look at ICE manufacturers today, refuse to kill their cash cows. Jobs knew that today's cash cow is tomorrow's leather purse and acted accordingly. So does Tesla.

    From its inception, what set Apple apart was the mania to provide a cool design coupled with an easy to use interface. Tesla does the same thing. Go sit in an iPace and play with it. The user interface is clunky in comparison to a Tesla. It's the same for all of them. Tesla is the Apple of autos. The others don't get it and most never will.

    Tesla does indeed have some moats, but all can be bridged. What can't is the willingness and dedication to innovate and the fact that Tesla gets it that making their cars fun and easy to operate is the key. Buttons and switches not required.
  • @dmm1240,
    I understand that you did not mean to be offensive, nor did I take it as such. I also agree with most of what you say above. However, I think you've sorely missed all that sets Tesla apart from everyone else.
    One early thing was their clever method of using commodity 18650 Li-ion cells to provide high performance, low cost batteries. Another thing was their logical business case: Start dominating the high performance supercar market, then move to the large luxury vehicle business, then go mainstream. The whole time, they produced extremely good-looking, great performing vehicles.
    Their software never was, IMHO, particularly great, however, I agree that their ability to fix mistakes more than adequately made up for any shortcomings or mistakes. I also agree that their willingness to keep improving despite the inconvenience it causes their employees clearly has played an additional role in their rise to dominance.
    It's really their willingness to optimize all parts of their design (including software) that creates a moat that mainstream automakers, with their bureaucratic, entrenched silos and power structure; can't seem to compete with.
  • edited January 13
    I disagree about their software. Their battery management system was excellent from the beginning and continues to improve. Legacy carmakers still can't match Tesla's Over-the-air update process.

    Seriously, go to a dealership and sit in an iPace or any other EV (if you can find one) and compare its user interface with Tesla's. It's no contest. Legacy automakers have always been bad at it, Tesla's lead was good to begin with and continues to grow.

    Teslas have been called computers with wheels by many, and I agree with that assessment. Tesla will beat the pants off the other companies in getting self driving developed and implemented mainly because of the supercomputers they're installing in their cars. Version 3.0 is mind bogglingly good. That little box can compute at rates that far exceed what the largest supercomputers could do say 20 years ago. Tesla is already well along in designing the software to utilize the 3.0's calculation capacity. Meanwhile, the other guys are still fooling around with Lidar mounted on the roofs of test cars.
  • edited January 14
    I’m not confident this car will be a success. As far as start ups go we are at market saturation and I just don’t see anything compelling enough to draw the cult like following Tesla got when it started. Without a major partner I think this is most likely DOA or it will languish in very very small volumes before getting bought out again.
  • edited November -1
    Who by and where will this be made.?

    Even from the get go, Tesla said how/where their cars will be sold. This isn’t Fisker’s first rodeo and yet he never mentions where or how these will be sold. Also another start up that hasn’t addresses the “where/how” thier products will be sold is Rivian.
  • edited November -1
    Rivian has offered a little more detail on the “how” side and even has some big financial support. For them it’s down to execution and if there is an appetite for their product. In theory there is but it is just theory.
  • edited November -1
    Rivian has two huge advantages - good backing from Amazon and Ford, and a huge order for Amazon vans. They should do well with that Amazon order if they can execute the plan, even if they never enter the consumer market with trucks and SUVs. I suspect they will do better than 80% of the legacy companies, who just don't seem to get it.
  • edited January 14
    You can put lipstick on a pig, but you can't escape a bad Karma.
  • edited November -1
    I hope rivian pulls through unlike faraday
  • edited January 15
    I am a big supporter of all EVs. Different strokes for different folks and all that . . . I am very doubtful that ICE manufacturers will ever adapt to the new paradigm.

    So I am rooting for Nio (yes, Chinese, but still EV), Rivian and others to make buying EVs a permanent sea-change in the way we value our environment. If that provides more competition for Tesla, that is great!

    Competition spurs innovation.

    If (big IF IMO) Tesla ever has significant competition, then we can complete the path to the extinction of Exxon-Mobil, Royal Dutch Shell, and all the other oil-loving fuckers that are driving our planet to disaster.

    JMO of course . . .
  • edited November -1
    Geography will limit BEVs in the USA for the foreseeable future until they can evolve beyond lithium ion batteries.
  • edited January 15
    Cerebral load is over capacity
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