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Solar Roof Progression (UPDATE 5/19)

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  • edited May 2020
    I THINK you can still add powerwalls later and get the solar credit as long as they turn in to a "solar" component. By that I mean, if the powerwalls can be charged from the grid, then they are NOT a solar component. If the powerwalls can ONLY be charged from the Solar array, then they ARE a solar component and would be eligible for the credit.

    Obviously, appropriate consultations with knowledgeable people would be required to get the full story, but that is how I have understood the rules thus far.
  • edited May 2020
    @ grins.va | May 15, 2020 TeslaTap has already explained that the roof plywood is covered with a fire resistant double underlayment."

    I guess that would work but then all those roof penetrations for the support grid structure would make that problematic and if you get a roof leak some company 3,000 miles away for warranty and horrendous job of getting at leak.

    Explains the high cost. A lot to pay and a lot of risk for a slightly better look.

    Sounds like @andy.connor.e's doesn't want to get quotes on cheaper better metal roof/panels but then this has never looked like real project, going on for years now.
  • edited May 2020
    Considering a solar roof has fewer penetrations that an asphalt roof, it's a non-issue. The underlayment is designed to self-seal penetrations. This is how all roofs are normally done - asphalt, solar roof and I suspect a good metal roof. At least I hope a metal roof has an underlayment. Perhaps they leave it out to get the costs down. Then adding major penetrations into a metal roof for solar panel mounts seems to create far more risky leak-points - ones that would be very hard to find and fix.

    While the metal roof with solar panels is a lot more expensive it can also be really noisy in the rain. I'd be far more concerned about a warranty on a rarely installed metal roof than the solar roof. Is this the first time they have ever done one? Around here, you never see a metal roof. Not sure if it's just the high costs or if they rust, or fail in other ways. It may be people do not want the house to look like McDonald's or Wendys with a metal roof.
  • edited May 2020
    Just called them. They told me over the phone that its going to be ~$15,500 for two powerwalls after the bundling discount. I put in a redesign order and they are going to come and inspect my panel and run some overall electrical power loads to see if two will be sufficient.

    @TeslaTap talked me into it!
  • edited May 2020
    @TT Much of the new construction, around here, is going with metal roofs. I am watching one being done from my back window. The ones I have seen go in have a layer of membrane underneath. Yes they can be noisy but on high ceiling with some foam I have not heard the noise complaint in a while.

    We are in a hilly, fire risky, area and building codes have maximum structure height restrictions. The result is most new/modern construction has a very shallow pitch roof to give maximum interior ceiling height and space. Metal roofs are good for a shallow pitch and fire resistance.
  • edited May 2020
    @derotam

    Just did some research. Battery storage qualifies for the tax credit as long as its charged by a renewable energy source. Powerwalls by themselves being charged by the grid without solar do not qualify. So if you decide to add later you can. But the Tax credit is GONE in 2022. So its this year, next year, or you're paying full price. TeslaTap talked me into it, we'll see what the numbers say. They will not have any real benefit to me right now, but occassionally when the power goes out it'll help. Like this winter, we had a (billy fuccillo) HUGE ice storm and many powerlines went down. I lost power for like 7 hours, and other places like in Queensbury NY lost power for days.

    The way i see it in regards to the powerwalls, its now or never. Will let you know what i find out!
  • edited May 2020
    @Andy, thats good...just remember I do think there is the technicality that the in addition to the storage system ONLY being able to be charged by the solar array, the battery can NOT be able to export power to the grid from the batteries.
  • edited November -1
    TeslaTap.com | May 15, 2020 Then adding major penetrations into a metal roof for solar panel mounts seems to create far more risky leak-points>

    No penetrations at all for solar panels on metal roofs. They clamp on. That one of the main reasons for choosing them. Completely seamless and no penetrations.

    Plus the durability of the metal roof which is important since removing panels to get to roof makes for more cost. Looking for a leak in all those penetrations in the layment with shingles would be very costly. And Tesla service is 3,000 miles away.

    Only issue with metal roofs is sound of rain can annoy some people but that's gone with the panels on top.

    With the panels standing off the roof 3" it provides much better ventilation for hot days.

    Best and most cost effective is metal roof and panels.
  • edited May 2020
    @derotam

    The only verbiage i could find was having the powerwalls installed without a source of renewable energy to charge them. Have not found anything about battery to grid. I dont think that should matter since the qualification is how the batteries are charged, and no verbiage about how they discharge their energy. If they discharged into the grid, from a logical perspective, that should be all the reason to qualify by adding renewable energy to the grid. But if i ever come across a clause or such i'll share it.
  • edited May 2020
    @andy, sounds good. I haven't done much in depth research into any of the technicalities since I am not in a position to add powerwalls to my existing system at this time. I do however know that when it comes to tax rebates/credits(actually a lot of things), you better know more than the companies you are dealing with so something doesn't accidentally get missed.
  • edited May 2020
    Tesla's energy service is less than 20 miles away from me. Another fake concern repeated more than once. For all I know, maybe the metal roof contractors are 5000 miles away, but I'll be honest and say I have zero ideas where they can be serviced.

    As for leaks, we did a leak test when the solar roof was installed, and we've had several rainstorms since. Zero leaks. Since I've never had a metal roof, I don't know how many leaks people have with them. Seems like they might be as good.

    I do have a nearby friend with an aluminum roof - which I think is different than the steel roofs others are talking about. He has quite a few dents where people have walked on it. I've walked on my new roof without a problem. It was a concern, as my prior tile roof would crack at least one cement tile every time I walked on it - and I'm not a heavy person.

    Does the steel roof include a warranty for rust? It seems like a high risk anywhere they cut that exposes the steel.
  • edited May 2020
    Where you cut it, it doesn't rust because the zinc sets up an electric galvanic protection around it.
  • edited May 2020
    TeslaTap.com | May 15, 2020 Tesla's energy service is less than 20 miles away from me. "

    Gives location as Fremont so 3,000 miles for @andy.connor.e's three year fantasy install. Ever for someone in OR, having a Fremont, CA company do the install and be the only service/warranty office for a Tesla product is a real leap of faith.
  • edited May 2020
    I think the project is really cool and will enjoy seeing the result. I hate seeming like I am in the same camp as...certain other posters, but personally I would get quotes from different roofing+solar companies just to see what the different options are. I know in my state there is a company that is doing a special on roofing+solar that includes 0% financing for 36 months and some low rate after that. The breakeven point would likely be so much sooner with a deal like that vs 6.99% interest. Of course if it is more about being cutting edge or getting the Tesla brand, nothing wrong with that! To each their own. :)

    Sorry to keep harping on the interest, I just can't get over it! lol

    But don't let me get in your head, I am just the type that gets 10 written estimates for every job and make sure that I throughly explore every singe option before committing. In my case I might very well have went with the Tesla Shingles but I don't need a new roof so I didn't even consider that option. But for 6.99% you better believe I would have looked at every other option before commiting to that. ;)

    Actually did you look at a company like Primary Residential Mortgage? I am not trying to sell any particular company but there are companies that specialize in doing refinances that include solar systems and they go well beyond the 80% that many companies seem to shy away from. I happen to know Primary Residential Mortgage is one of them cause I got a quote from them when most companies wouldn't even consider it due to the 80% cutoff. That way you can get a much better rate than 6.99% and you can claim the interest deduction on your taxes. With the 26% federal tax credit it's like double-dipping. Great deal. I can share some links if you are interested in exploring that option or I am sure a simple google search will lead you to good info. :)
  • edited November -1
    It is premium price install with high interest rates which doesn't make much economic sense. It will have a much longer ROI than a normal solar install. Not getting competitive bids is another odd aspect to the whole scheme. And then no local service or warranty from a company with terrible customer service. So much is wrong with it. Though if my guess is correct and it's a three year window shopping fantasy that never happens, then all the negatives make sense.
  • edited May 2020
    @FISHEV - Clearly you know nothing about Tesla's solar roof. Interest rates have never been lower, the price for me was less than a new roof without solar.

    I got 5 competitive bids too, although I didn't bother with a metal roof as I hate the look and noise. Others said metal roofs were the most expensive roof of any kind, but I didn't confirm that.

    I have local service and warranty as do others who buy the solar roof. Phone support was excellent too and I was never on hold to get to someone.

    Look we get that you hate Tesla so much you spend 24/7 making up lies. It isn't healthy for you.
  • edited May 2020
    TT:

    FYI if you install Powerwalls after solar, and charge the Powerwalls from solar only (not from the grid), you DO qualify for the 26% tax credit/deduction on the Powerwall install See:

    https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-wd/201809003.pdf.
  • edited May 2020
    good to know JPPTM, thanks
  • edited May 2020
    TeslaTap.com | May 16, 2020 Interest rates have never been lower, the price for me was less than a new roof without solar."

    Look pretty high from what we see here but not sure how real any of this is, it's been going for years.

    "I got 5 competitive bids too"

    That's sounds smart, none even asked for here.

    "I didn't bother with a metal roof as I hate the look and noise. Others said metal roofs were the most expensive roof of any kind, but I didn't confirm that."

    Just the rain if you have a thin roof and nothing at all when covered with solar panels. Metal's typicall the cheapest as cost of material and install are cheaper and they last forever.

    The lower the cost of solar install as they panels just clamp onto the ridges in the roof. And that means no penetrations as heating and cooling of the penetrations are where roofs develop the leaks.

    "I have local service and warranty as do others who buy the solar roof. Phone support was excellent too and I was never on hold to get to someone."

    You said you were near the Tesla office in CA. This is 3,000 miles away and other person I know looking at it is 1,000 miles away. Tesla's communication skills are lacking to put it mildly. Maybe its different with the ex-Solar City now Tesla employees but I think it's driven by Tesla vs. Solar City and that's a bad sign.

    Tesla dropped the whole solar roof thing shortly after announcing it and offered solar panels instead and only fairly recently started back with the solar roof.

    Can only go by my solar install and my three neighbors, Tesla's looks expensive, complex, not best for PV power due to air flow and problematic on service.

    Can't imagine local roofer and PV installer wouldn't be much cheaper and more reliable with a better system. Tesla wins on looks, old story there.
  • edited May 2020
    "Can't imagine local roofer and PV installer wouldn't be much cheaper and more reliable with a better system. Tesla wins on looks, old story there."

    No, local installers have crazy markup. They will try to sell you on their local service being superior or their installers being better etc etc. But on price it is no comparison at all. I only had one local installer whose price was close to Telsa's and everyone else's was significantly higher. I can't comment on whose system is the best as everyone claims to have the best. I did still end up going with a local installer personally but that was because I wanted a local company and they did end up coming way down on price. Still higher than Tesla though.

    Also as already highlighted above the financing options are WAY better with my local installers, so that is worth something as well. :)
  • edited November -1
    @owlegrad2 | May 17, 2020 I only had one local installer whose price was close to Telsa's and everyone else's was significantly higher."

    You would be unique as even Tesla admits it prices are higher for solar roof. As for local installers being higher for panels, not plausible as the products are cheaper, the local labor is cheaper than driving a couple thousand miles, the local installers know the area homes better, can stage jobs, though a panel install on a metal roof is couple days.

    One of the reasons the already less expensive metal roof is the material of choice as it speeds install of the panels as well.

    Which is why other than for Tesla's unique and expensive solar tiles, you see only local installers same as electricians or plumbers, idea that out of state service would be cheaper is never true.

    Financing is typically cash or home equity lines, financing as personal loan(?) is going to much more expensive.
  • edited May 2020
    @Fish

    No, you can get a quote from Tesla online without even interacting with a salesman. Try doing that for any local installer. I imagine that Telsa subcontracts and that is why they are cheaper but I cannot confirm that I am just speculating. I can show you the many, many written quotes I got from local installers - everyone of them was significantly higher than the quote I got from Tesla online, except for the one that was somewhat close to Tesla's. Perhaps part of why Tesla is cheaper is that they simply start with their best price and don't play games with how much they charge you.

    I am financing as an unsecured home improvement loan at 2.9% for a 20 year loan. 8 out of 10 local installers offered those exact same terms (they all used the same financing company obviously). Granted you can get a cheaper price paying cash since there are financing charges as well. In my case I would have saved less than 2k by paying cash (although I suspect there was some obfuscation of the actual finance charges going on with that quote). So no, financing as a personal loan is not "much more expensive". I think that used to be true but it isn't true at all anymore.
  • edited May 2020
    Im back from the weekend extravaganza!

    @owlegrad2

    Thanks for reading! I actually did do just that as you had mentioned, last week i called about 12 different companies for financing, and they either wanted to split it into two different loans where one is higher interest and other is lower interest, they wanted to do the solar panel design and installation themselves, or it was the same or about 1.5% better. I just decided i didnt want to go through the trouble of many credit checks and the such. I also did read up on writing off the interest on taxes, i think i might have mentioned it on a previous comment page.

    I actually had reached out about some powerwalls late last week, and they got back to me on Saturday with an updated pricing details. But they didnt factor in the tax credit amount into the powerwalls, nor did they include the bundling discount. Will have to call them again tomorrow, their representative are pretty bad when it comes to the details.
  • edited May 2020
    @owlegrad2 | May 17, 2020 No, you can get a quote from Tesla online without even interacting with a salesman.

    That's irrelvant and a quote for new roof and solar without examining the property seems pointless.

    In this case it says an 8.25kWh system for $38K and, if it is done without even looking at the house structure, like caveats for another $10K on contingencies.

    But even at $38K, new metal roof would be $9k and 8.9kWh system quoted to neighbor was $22K so $8,000 savings and that's if Tesla could stick to $38k. So easy 20% less for a better system with local service. No roof penetrations. Better cooling of PV panels.

    Only reason for going Tesla shingles would be looks or, in this case, to say one was "going to get" a Tesla roof. Which has been going for 3(?) years now.
  • edited May 2020
    @FISHEV

    I made my reservation in November 2019 after the V3 version came out. Where are you getting 3 years from?
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