Model S

Battery concern on my 90d

edited January 2020 in Model S
Hello everyone,

I am new to the Tesla forum family. Please don't hang me out to dry if this topic has already been discussed as I cannot seem to find a search option and the forum. I have a 2016 facelift model S that was manufactured on November 26 of 2016.I have concerns over the range of the car. Right now I have 55000 miles and at a 95% charge it saying I am only rated to 256 miles. I know when new the car should have been rated somewhere just over 300 miles range. So my question is should I be concerned about the life of my battery and/or is it failing?

Comments

  • edited January 2020
    wow , same here . I just bought a p90d cop from Tesla and by calculations, I get 110 miles to a 90 percent charge.
    I just had a full 90 percent charge. 222 miles at start. drove 79 miles and showed 63 miles remaining. burned through 159 miles of range , driving actual 79 . about half of what it says. so 222 miles is really 111? granted its 18 degrees in stl . had the heat set to 75 and one seat heater on max. prewarmed the car on a charger . 111 miles is crappy . glad I kept my other car. still love this car for other reasons .
  • edited January 2020
    90D new, 100% charge gives 294 miles rated range. Not sure where you get over 300 mile RR. The 90s do degrade faster at first than the 85s. My calcs show you lost about 8%, I would not worry about that....
  • edited January 2020
    90D new, 100% charge gives 294 miles rated range. Not sure where you get over 300 mile RR. The 90s do degrade faster at first than the 85s. My calcs show you lost about 8%, I would not worry about that....
  • edited January 2020
    A pre-refresh S90D was rated at 288 miles. A refresh S90D was rated at 294 miles. I don’t know the numbers for the P version but they are less than those figures. Those are EPA ratings which means no heat or air conditioning and speed less than 60 mph I think. Cold weather reduces the efficiency of the battery. My S90D dropped from 288 to 277 over the 4 years since I got it. I am on my second battery. At 920 miles on the odometer a 100% charge dropped to 100 miles. They didn’t tell me what failed in the battery but something definitely failed.
  • edited November -1
    No, the rated range is based on a speed of 65 mph. Tesla has since changed their website, but for the longest time, one could enter different speeds, outside temperatures, AC on or off, to see what one's range would get. The starting speed was 65 mph and the stated range matched the EPA number.
  • edited November -1
    We purchased a 2016 (Feb., pre-facelift) 90D in November. We charge to 85% and it usually shows 245 miles range. However, our actual range is always lower because the EPA 294 mile range is based on dynamometer tests at a low speed at ideal temperature. In cold weather, range really drops off. See https://teslike.com/range/ for more info.
  • edited November -1
    @TonyBm - There are two versions of EPA test - the 2-cycle, which is what you describe. The rating is lowered by 30% to compensate for heat/cold conditions, although it's an average, so cold weather will be worse.

    The 5-cycle test is done with both cold and heat and should be close to the 2-cycle test results after the 2-cycle is adjusted. I don't know which test Tesla uses, as it is up to the manufacturer. I suspect the 5-cycle test is used as the old 2-cycle test is considered somewhat obsolete, but is still allowed.

    Generally, you should get the EPA range at 65 mph, 70F, on the flat when new, with the 19" tires (non-performance). The 21" tires are included in the Performance S and are one reason EPA range is lower for Performance variants.

    Also, the battery degradation tends to be the most in the first year - perhaps 2% or so. After that, it seems to only have 1% or so degradation per year, at 12K miles/year. I'm sure there are other variables that make this hard to apply to everyone, including how you charge, driving habits and temperatures you encounter.
  • edited January 2020
    If you don't do a range calibration, then estimating from 85% or 90% SOC is not going to be accurate. The cars purposely drift downward over time as the range is only a calculation. This is a conservative approach so that it reports less range than you actually have over time.

    To calibrate, run the car down below 20%, then charge up to 100% at home. Check the range within an hour of getting to 100%. This should show you the true range at which you can find the degradation from the original. Some say you should do this process 2 or 3 times, but once it should get you very close to the correct calibration.
  • edited January 2020
    A prerefresh S90D was rated at 288 miles not 294. 288 times 0.85 = 244.8. You have lost nothing. Mine is down to 277.
  • edited January 2020
    I bought my 90 brand new in 12/15, and at 100% it was 274 miles. I haven't charged it to 100% in years, but at 90% it's at 241 miles, so I'm very happy. 241 divided by 90% is 267.8, so I've lost about 6 miles of capacity in 4 years and 44,000 miles.
  • edited November -1
    Also, I don't remember what mine was rated at, but it's a prefreshed, straight 90, 2 wheel drive.
  • edited January 2020
    What sucks is, it looks like after battery replacement they also limit your power. My P85+ now has a hard limiter of 300kw.
  • edited November -1
    I purchased my Raven MS long range (or 100D) on 9/28/19. At the time it reported 370 miles of range at 100% though I never actually charged all the way to verify. Fast forward to today (1/24/20) and the car has 10,200 miles and the max range is now 358 miles, which is 3.2% degradation. Is this expected? Furthermore, I've been trying to replicate the SF Bay Area to LA drive that MotorTrend did (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2019/exclusive-2019-tesla-model-s-review/) but sadly my MS always stops me to charge at the Super Charger once prior to the Grapevine.
  • Many things affect range driving habits , accessories, charging. I bought a used S 90d last year with 26k miles. I charge it at home at 15 amps overnight. It showed 288 to the line and still does. I have charged it twice to 100 percent and was amazed to see 353 miles. I drive conservatively but not slow. I rarely use ac or heat, just fan air. Tesla says it's my driving habits. I usually use close to listed miles / actual. Like any car, your driving habits can make a big difference. [email protected] 😁
  • I'd be amazed to see that too, until I realized I had range set to ideal, not rated miles...
  • lol @Aerodyne. My rated is my ideal, and my ideal is more like absurd. :)

    But really if you've still got battery warranty left who cares? I charge to 100% every time and don't give a lick how long the car sits at that level. It'll be covered.
  • klufkee, yes you should care, because unless your car is relatively new, there is no warranty on range loss. Cooking your battery via leaving it sitting at 100%, will increase battery degradation significantly.
  • There are many practical reasons to not charge above 90% regularly unless you need it. Loss of regen is the biggest one, followed by wear and tear on the pumps and cooling system, which on older cars will run at 100% at high SoC.

    If you fry your battery, or in Tesla's opinion, reduce capacity to 70% or less, you won't get a new battery! Just a rebuilt one with equal or greater range.

    There are bits and pieces of misinformation in this thread, suggest all read the latest guidance:

    https://www.tesla.com/support/range
  • I've got a V1 battery in a P90DL, (hooray for the extra silicon experiment!) so I can be fairly sure that any replacement they give me will have longer life and more power.

    I don't actually care about the range. I've never needed to go 250 miles without a supercharger and those things have been everywhere I've wanted to go. That certainly doesn't mean I won't use the warranty to my advantage, because I've paid for it.
  • @klufkee_98044379

    Glad to hear you don't have range anxiety. On my one 6k road trip, never waited for a SuC, never went beyond 148 miles between charges, never below 27% or above 93%. In winter no less...with an 85 pack.

    Range anxiety is a mental condition that is hard to kick.

    If you charge to 75%, and run down to 25%, you will go faster on XC trips.

    The current battery warranty is full of weasel words. Make sure you download the old warranty that applies to your car.

    Lastly, I think I recall the V1 90 packs are better long term than 85's, once you get over the initial steep degradation. No charge or regen gate..
  • My March 2016 90D has 61,300 miles and has lost 13 miles of range. All vehicle systems seem to be performing normally (well... after upgrading to MCU2).
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