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Lucid Air or Hot Air

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  • ..........dont understand? That is OK. Your intellect is deteriorating. Sad.
  • > @"blue adept" said:
    > If Lucid wanted to conduct a fair and honest comparison then they should've consulted with Tesla and VW....

    I doubt Tesla or VW would have any interest or want to participate. Acknowledging a new startup offers noting to Tesla and VW, but plenty to Lucid. Actually, as far as I can tell, it was one of the more fair comparisons and didn't have all the scams we saw with the Taycan. If Lucid is putting in a 130 kW pack and the car costs $150K, I'd expect it to have a better range than the S100D. Lucid like Tesla has the huge advantage of starting from scratch with a new engineering team. It's the legacy automotive companies that are poorly structured, outsource everything, and most have the wrong talent and manufacturing to compete. Legacy automakers do have staying power with cash on hand. At least they did before COVID, which sort of upset the best laid plans.

    I also have some doubts on part of the tests Lucid made after the Taycan and S100D got to 0% SOC, but it was clear the Lucid still had significant range left. They showed about 100 extra miles. That might be accurate, but I could see it really being 50-75 extra miles if the test was conducted properly after that 0% SOC of the S100D. It was a bit of a marketing stunt, but a good one :)

    Another aspect of any competitive test - while every vehicle has more range at slow speeds, like 25 mph, there are likely sweet spots that make one car look better than another. For example, the Taycan with a two-speed transmission should look better at the switchover point. Let's say that's 75 mph. So you construct your comparison at 75 mph to make the Taycan look as best as it can be against a single-speed competitor, and run it at 70 mph to make it look far worse than a single-speed competitor. There are other factors, such as drag and temperatures that could shift advantages to one car or another.

    So the comparisons are interesting and have some validity, but it can greatly depend on who set it up and how much did they "game" the test. Even independent tests by car magazines can have some unexpected biases - especially if the automakers have any say, like "we suggest you run the comparison with our car at XX mph".
  • I went to the LA launch of Lucid many years ago at the Petersen Museum.

    I got the 2nd test ride when the car broke down. We left soon after.

    I hope Lucid is a success. I do not think they’ve stolen IP or trade secrets from Tesla just because Rawlinson used to work there. That’s insane.

    They are a super luxury limo type EV with a focus on passenger comfort. They will find buyers.

    But I expect we will see a 30% increase in range for S/X after battery day and even longer ranges for Cybertruck and Roadster.

    Tesla’s range “crown” is safe and their lead in charging is unassailable for the foreseeable future.
  • 2023 for lucid’s SUV, even longer for lucid’s “more affordable” cars. Tesla ain’t sitting still.

    EA charging is a fail for Lucid. One would think a former Tesla exec running Lucid would “get it” regarding Supercharger network. Shouldn’t have been difficult to strike a cooperative charging deal with Elon.
  • I believe Lucid is REAL and definitely not Hot Air. The EPA range came in at 517 miles, and under 2.5 second 0-60 mph time and over 200 mph maximum speed, with OTA updates. I think Tesla will finally have a viable competitor with Lucid, and time will tell as they finally roll them out for direct comparison. I have no doubt Tesla will answer this challenge and look forward to the competition going forward. They definitely need to address the charging issue.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-lucid-advantages-517-mile-range/
  • As far as range I believe the new roadster might win that one.
  • Tesla's specs have been proven out over time. What they say is very close to, or understated, to what they deliver. I know of no other company that has a history of spec to actual as good as Tesla's. Therefore, I hold Lucid's specs/claims with a healthy dose of skepticism. Until proven, it is just all, hot air.
  • I’m optimistic this is credible competition.
  • > @Ross1 said:
    > ..........dont understand? That is OK. Your intellect is deteriorating. Sad.

    I know that Faraday Futures is in bankruptcy, but I've heard that Lucid was in the process of breaking ground on a production facility so, no, I still don't understand your "bankrupt" comment in relation to our conversation about Lucid Motors.

    Speaking of the 'sadness' of 'deteriorating intellect', how's that transparent, submersible boat/sub thing working out for you?

    :tongue:
  • @"TeslaTap.com"

    I'm glad that you can see the potential for and realize their inclination to "rig" the results, I mean, talk about padding the numbers.

    The thing that I find most disturbing about all of this is just how much hype has been generated over what is still little more than a 'concept'.

    I mean, I get that people are interested in/stoked over the potential for a new, America-based EV startup contributing to the switch to emissions-free, electric powered transportation (it's even encouraging that Lucid is primarily funded by Saudi Arabia, of all places, whose primary source of income is the sale of crude).

    But I require something more substantive than hyperbole and staged comparisons before I start to get excited because I like my feet firmly planted on the ground (even if I might like my head in the clouds).

    Give me something to believe in.
  • @SamO

    Nothing "insane" about the potentiality given the fact of the connection to Tesla Motors and while I, too, would hate for my suggested possibility to turn out to be prophetic, well, Time will tell.
  • @Tesla-David

    Please do not misunderstand me, I would like for Lucid to be "real", too, because the competition would be nice, but I didn't skim over the part where it says "...EPA E-S-T-I-M-A-T-E-D range"..., which means that, if anything, the EPA was working from numbers presented to them by Lucid and not necessarily real world-based, in-the-field testing results.

    Fingers are crossed though.
  • > @M-A-B-MCMLXXX said:
    > I’m optimistic this is credible competition.

    Well, for myself it's more hopefulness than it is optimism but, yeah.> @akgolf said:
    > As far as range I believe the new roadster might win that one.

    > @akgolf said:
    > As far as range I believe the new roadster might win that one.
  • > @akgolf said:
    > As far as range I believe the new roadster might win that one.

    And that was only the INITIAL results.
  • @blue adept,

    Either way, we agree that those allegations haven't been pled by Tesla.

    Whatever you think of the potential EPA claims of Lucid, they are going to be be big. The first that have exceeded a 2012 S85 at 265 miles.

    I think THAT should be lauded.

    In the same breath, I think it is hysterical to call Lucid's imaginary and projected EPA range of 500 miles the "longest range" but you must mention SEMI, Roadster and Cybertruck since their projected imaginary EPA ranges are higher.

    :smile:
  • @SamO - I like the way you think!
  • > @SamO said:
    > @blue adept,
    >
    > Either way, we agree that those allegations haven't been pled by Tesla.
    >

    Yes we agree that, thus far, only the former Tesla employees at Rivian have demonstrated potential espionage and I've only suggested the same of Lucid as a potentiality and nothing more given the connection to Tesla.

    > @SamO said:
    > Whatever you think of the potential EPA claims of Lucid, they are going to be be big. The first that have exceeded a 2012 S85 at 265 miles.
    >

    Yes, if they can support their claims with real-world reviews by unbiased third-parties, if they can pull off the same or comparable fitment and configuration as a Tesla model at the price point they've stipulated ($60,000), then they should pose some actual competition.

    > @SamO said:
    > I think THAT should be lauded.
    >

    Credit is given where credit is due (which is where the whole 'real-world reviews by unbiased third-parties' thing comes into play) when I see something credible from them.

    > @SamO said:
    > In the same breath, I think it is hysterical to call Lucid's imaginary and projected EPA range of 500 miles the "longest range" but you must mention SEMI, Roadster and Cybertruck since their projected imaginary EPA ranges are higher.
    >
    > :smile:

    Fair point.
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