General

Tesla Model 2 for the masses Renault CV4 design.

The car has already been designed. Check out photos of the Renault CV4.
At half the size of the Model 2 (1300 lbs) the CV4 can seat 4.
A vehicle easily made putting the jelly bean to rest (FINALLY).
Coach doors externally hinged at the B pillar, Monocoque body, flat
windshield, possible hatchback, leaving room for future variants - small pickup, 2 passenger "business coupe," and others. Endearing design custom made for reliable electric propulsion that would grab the hearts of people. Gimme one please......
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Comments

  • "...of the Model 2"... what Tesla Model 2?
  • > @jordanrichard_629778 said:
    > "...of the Model 2"... what Tesla Model 2?

    The car for the masses. An affordable $20,000 car that would service most local needs.
    The replacement for the Corolla and Civic ICE vehicles. But with a Tesla twist. Available as
    a 5 passenger 4 door sedan, 2 door 2 passenger business coupe, small pickup truck, station
    wagon, panel van, all on the same chassis. About 3,000 lbs with a 300 mile range this vehicle
    would serve the needs of 80 percent of the public for an affordable price. Tall yet with a wide
    stance, handle like a skate board, fun to drive and economical to own. RetroTech. Got your
    attention yet?
  • Plastic hood, fenders and trunk lid would make minor crashes easily repaired. B-pillar would be a roll bar for safety. Bringing back the window vent wing, and sliding back windows would reduce costs. Simple monocoque body stampings, exceptional sound insulation,
    glass roof, rear motor would negate the need for power steering. 50/50 weight balance and innovative construction would make for quick, simple production.
    Dedicated assembly plants all over the world could be established quickly.
    5 second 0 to 60 times with 95 mph top speed limit would give
    150 eMPG readings in the city with 120 eMPG for the highway. A city car without peers. Theme flexibility for the jelly beans? Non existant. Even the rich would purchase "Turtles."
  • I thought the 3 was supposed to be the car for the masses.
  • It’s a big car. Mass market cars, certainly in Europe, are more like the Peugeot 208, VW Golf, Ford Fiesta, Renault Clio, Nissan Micra and the like.
  • > @narrenschiff_92841313 said:
    > I thought the 3 was supposed to be the car for the masses.

    Lots of ways to look at a mass market significant purchase narrenschiff.
    1. Can I afford the payments?
    2. Do I wish to trade a large portion of my net worth for a
    vehicle, or do I wish to accumulate capital?
    3. Do I wish to be pushy in public with a larger than needed vehicle? Or, is "stealth mode" better? Fitting in.
    4. Do I wish to utilize more of the earth's resources than absolutely necessary to get me and my family around?
    5. Do I enjoy a smaller, more nimble driving experience?
    6. Do I wish to park my expensive SUV when doing routine
    tasks, saving its value for longer.

    My feeling is: No matter how much money one has, spending the minimum amount of cash for the maximum
    fun and value I could get would be a satisfying endeavor.
    Affordable cost is a bonus.
  • There's a good way to increase flexibility while increasing affordability while reducing cost to affordable. Large inside, small outside. Most body parts injection molded. Elon wants to grab our hearts, this grabs mine, here's my submision:
    https://www.bobatkinson-poet.com/2020/09/my-design-for-teslas-peoples-world-car.html
  • That CV4 looks like a Morris Minor.

    Audi A2 would make a brilliant platform for a city EV. Doesn’t try and pretend to be a 5 seater, so narrow enough to park, aluminium and light, slightly raised so could have batteries in the base and spacious enough inside to use as a van - easily carries at least 2 bikes. With the rear seats removed it has more interior space than most hatchbacks.

    It’s was a bit ahead of its time, but you now get more conventional cars, such as the Honda Jazz, that offer similar space, just not as stylish on design.
  • The 4CV is considered an super-mini. I doubt it would be legal to sell in the USA if made new as it has zero safety systems. It also weighs about 1300 pounds, the same weight as a Tesla battery pack alone. The best version offers all of 21 hp. I shudder to think what it would do on the freeway. Maybe a 0-60 time measured in minutes? I also expect the handling to be scary at best compared with cars of today. Sorry, I don't see a 4CV EV or ICE being resurrected.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_4CV
  • @TeslaTap..... guess I confused you. Meant not that the CV4 design was a good one to adopt, meant the style of 1940's fendered designs with oversized cockpits, undersized front ends, coach doors hinged at the B Pillar, was endearing and flexible to many, many purposes. A new design with monocoque construction, injection molded plastic front and rear fenders hoods, trunk lids could herald a new line of autos to service mankind. Three quarters of the vehicle would be standard, including all running gear. Hang a pickup bed on the back with single wall construction, extend the 4 door body to become a panel van, put a small flatbed on the back, make a 2 passenger business coupe,
    a convertible, beach buggy. All without changing the running gear or any component of complexity, only lighting. To accomplish Tesla's goal of accelerating transition to EV's a full line is needed, not a jelly bean mini-car.
    2500 lb design would allow for 5 passengers in comfort. It's the 4CV format,
    not the car that's important. There's a 4CV video with a guy driving one that is 6'6" tall, and he fits in the half size car. Expand it to 2500 lbs and you got a car that could handle a 7 foot person. A line of cars, not a mini-car. Endearing, not boring. Jelly Beans are at the end of their run (boring), same with Rabbit like hatchbaccks (boring). RetroTech's in vogue. (no pun intended on the tunnel company)

    https://www.bobatkinson-poet.com/2020/09/my-design-for-teslas-peoples-world-car.html
  • That was how the A2 worked - very flexible space, small bonnet and big hatch.

    I would very much like to see a trend away from colour coded numbers and for ding strips to be fitted on doors and door edges.

    The Citroen Cactus has a nice design for a city car where you can park anywhere and not be concerned how others will treat it, but it’s too big. Needs to be more Fiesta/Clio/Micra sized. You could even go up to the size of a Beetle (Golf). Each of these is quite a bit bigger than their original models, but still small enough to be practical around town.

    Small is the little electric 4 wheeled bike that 14 year olds can drive in France.
  • > @andy_98490374 said:
    > ...ding strips to be fitted on doors and door edges.
    >

    There are already aftermarket suppliers for those accessories:

    https://dentgoalie.com/

    https://saferoad.org/best-car-door-edge-guards/
  • Did I say my feeling is the Turtle's to be powered by a rear Radial Flux motor hooked to a 5 speed manual tranny? This would give the feeling of old time ICE. "....Cooler than ICE....."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_flux_motor#:~:text=An%20axial%20flux%20motor%20%28also%20known%20as%20an,geometry%20of%20the%20more%20common%20radial%20gap%20motor.

    https://www.magnax.com/hubfs/magnax-axial-flux-motor-6.jpeg
  • Thanks @"blue adept", not seen those here, but two things, one it relies on the other person fitting them, and secondly I was also thinking of the lateral plastic strips that used to be on doors that help protect other people.

    The amount of people I see opening their doors onto other cars or, worse, deliberately resting the door against another, not thinking about the sawing action, is shocking.

    It used to be that bumpers were designed to take bumps, now they are painted and show every mark. Industry-wide issue, but it keeps paint shops in business.
  • > @andy_98490374 said:
    > Thanks @"blue adept", not seen those here, but two things, one it relies on the other person fitting them, and secondly I was also thinking of the lateral plastic strips that used to be on doors that help protect other people.
    >

    A quick internet search should turn up a listing of several aftermarket companies that provide accessories to address your needs that can be ordered online and delivered to your door.

    Yes, the individual will have to "fit" the items onto or in their vehicles themselves, but they come with written instructions and there are a number of self-help, DIY videos on the internet as well that could provide some additional insight to help make the job a bit easier.

    The "lateral plastic strips" you're referring to can be found in the second link I posted,though I'm sure you can find a number of other aftermarket providers for the same of similar items that would both provide you with a variety of options as well as help you to determine which would best suit your particular needs.

    > @andy_98490374
    > The amount of people I see opening their doors onto other cars or, worse, deliberately resting the door against another, not thinking about the sawing action, is shocking.
    >

    I've noticed this as well, this decline in common civil etiquette and respect for other people's property, like people just can't be bothered to exercise a little social decency.

    > @andy_98490374
    > It used to be that bumpers were designed to take bumps, now they are painted and show every mark. Industry-wide issue, but it keeps paint shops in business.
    >

    The industry has adopted the "tuner" trend of monochromatic color schemes because, I'm guessing, less labor is involved in prepping the vehicles for painting when you're painting just every damn thing.
  • @bob_saltzer_98342246

    Well, Bob, literally ANY car can be converted over to an electric propulsion system so if you're not liking what you're seeing in Tesla's model lineup then pick the car/truck of your preference and electrify it!

    Boom! Problem solved!!
  • I think ClubCar makes a CV4 shell that fits over their 2 seat cart.
  • > @"blue adept" said:
    >
    > Boom! Problem solved!!

    Blue, problem is penetration of the mass market, not my wishes for one (1) car.

    “ to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy .”. The mission statement by Tesla shows the shift towards business approaches that are more futuristic. The focus on sustainability indicates the compliance of the company with global demands of business methods that align with calls for green energy......"

    Here's my solution to that problem:
    1. A line of cars based on a retro designed body.
    a. 4 door, 5 passenger 2500 lb sedan, with hatchback.
    b. 2 door, 2 passenger business coupe, with huge trunk.
    c. pickup truck, single or dual rear wheels, with single wall bed, can be lined with available hardwood.
    d. Flatbed truck, dual rear wheels, wooden stakes from the aftermarket or optional.
    e. Beach Buggy. South Seas would love this. #1 in Miami.
    f. Panel van, perfect choice for craftsmen with 110v and 220v plugs.
    2. An axial flux motor for less production cost and 25 percent more range.
    300 mile range (city) with 40kwh battery. 60kwh battery option for 550 mile range. (city only)
    3. 3 speed gearshift (axial flux motors have similar torque curve to ICE).
    4. Plastic injection moulded front and back fenders, hood, trunk lid and doors. (all bodyworks)
    For simple consumer replacement of body parts. (snap and fit), no paint shop required.
    5. Simple steel monocoque construction.
    6. This body shape allows for tall, roomy interior, relative to jelly beans.
    Taller, more spacious for its size than a model Y (comparable interior space to Y)
    7. $18,000 to $25,000 price points.
    8. Simple, Quick erection of dedicated assembly plants near their market worldwide.
    9. A car our youth adopts as their own, "hot rods" have returned. Friday night cruising returns.

    Compare this to coming out with a $25,000 jelly bean that costs a fortune to do bodywork.

    Get my point yet Blue?
  • Thanks Blue, we come from different markets (I’m not in the US). Bumpers, including what you call fenders, used to be black plastic, not painted. The paint adds cost.

    It’s a wish rather than any realistic expectation.

    This was a very typical mass market car for a mid-tier employee and shows what I mean: https://classicsworld.co.uk/cars/family-cars-the-1980s/attachment/1980s-vauxhall-cavalier/ Senior managers and successful sales people would get a posher version such as this http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=53589&country=uk This model was more for company directors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauxhall_Carlton#/media/File:Vauxhall_Carlton_JRHospital_cropped.jpg

    The point being that colour coded bumpers came later and reduced resilience in supermarkets.

    Thanks for the links, but my wish for bumpers is for everybody else to apply them so that I am protected against their accidents ;-) I park as far away from other people as possible, that said, why is it that cars are fitted with car magnets? Leave your car in an empty car park and you can guarantee that you’ll return to find that it has attracted a mate that is parked within a couple of inches of your door!
  • @bob_saltzer_98342246 you could have some serious fun with some of your design ideas.

    One of the challenges the car industry is facing is how to monetise maintenance and renewal for vehicles that don’t suffer the degradation and complexity of internal combustion engines. Also, if a car has continuous over the air updates, almost maintenance free motors and no switches, then how do you convince people to keep buying new models?

    Build a safe car where the structure passes crash tests, but allows for low cost replaceable coloured panels on top and you could have people driving a different coloured car each day. There could even be special edition coloured panels - much the same as vinyl picture disks. That would be so much fun.
  • edited September 10
    > @bob_saltzer_98342246 said:
    > The car for the masses. An affordable $20,000 car that would service most local needs.

    The masses can't afford a $20,000 car. That's likely 50% more than the median global annual income. https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php

    This would be a good pricepoint for the masses in relatively wealthy countries.
  • Mass market cars here, even with 20% VAT, run from around. £10k to £25k (multiply by around 1.3 for USD). Very many people buy at higher prices though as there is a big rental market (rent with residual balloon payment if you want to own).

    Current UK list price of a Model 3 AWD is Sterling equivalent of a bit north of $60k USD. This takes into account the government EV grant.

    There’s speculation that the government will, in advance of the forthcoming ban on ICE sales, accelerate the move to EV’s by adding a further purchase tax to ICE cars and use that to further subsidise EVs.

    There’s a lot of space for lower cost mass market EVs.
  • > @andy_98490374 said:
    > One of the challenges the car industry is facing is how to monetise maintenance and renewal ... if a car has continuous over the air updates, almost maintenance free motors and no switches, then how do you convince people to keep buying new models?

    Improved hardware with future iteration of product seems pretty obvious.
  • > @rxlawdude said:
    ... if a car has continuous over the air updates, almost maintenance free motors and no switches, then how do you convince people to keep buying new models?
    >
    ANSWER: remove the updates, rely on older, amortized technology, install de-rated motors which can be uprated by the aftermarket, voiding warranties. Retro-ize to switches. Provide dedicated to function body styles.......4 door sedan... 2 door, 2 passenger.....pickups....panel vans.....stake trucks.....beach buggies.....
    Sell this for $18,000 to $25,000. And MAKE IT COOL...... (i.e. Easter Egg.... I put in a speaker on one of my golf carts, played a 1958 Chevy 348 c.i. dual exhaust rumble thru the speaker). Imagine a stick shift
    electric sounding like a built V8 with glass packs?
    Bob

    https://www.bobatkinson-poet.com/2020/09/my-design-for-teslas-peoples-world-car.html
    >
  • LATEST RE-THINK: Business Coupe, Pick-up, Stake Truck all would be THREE (3) passenger vehicles with a standard bench seat, 2 passenger bucket seats optional..... also my definition of "luxury" is fabric seats, soft velour. Not "luxury" to worry about wearing out the seats and using vinyl for lasting use.....TURTLE ON......
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