General

Fisker

I know we all like Tesla and have one but I think Fisker has a good shot at coming up good this time around, Henrik's designs are without a doubt good (proven time and time again) and that is more than half the battle with most cars especially EV's in general..........there's room for them too I think and the basic feel (inside and out) of Tesla's are getting a little old. They have to be this way to keep costs down since they are trying to turn them out as fast as possible while cutting corners on fit and finish etc.

The Fisker Ocean looks great and is an actual full sized SUV.

The Fisker Emotion is really something special (was out before the Model 3 and doesn't the Model 3 look very similar).

Also, the Fisker Karma was out before the S and was ahead of the curve (battery supplier went under and ruined the entire thing way back when). Just ask Bieber or DiCaprio etc. it still looks great!

Moving forward they are though with lessons learned so it should be interesting to say the very least.
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Comments

  • On the Fisker Ocean- looks interesting. I don’t know how storage is calculated but the Y looks to have a lot more. Range estimate is gonna look low the longer it takes to come out. That is, 250-300 miles now is ‘eh’ but next year will be low and un-impressive no doubt.

    On the Fisker Emotion- No. Just no. Nothing like a Model 3. MAYBE the headlight sliver? It is a hybrid from what I can tell.

    On the Fisker Karma- Ugh, I saw one of these charging in Phoenix at a Blink charger. Looked beautiful but kind of large. Did some research and saw- it is a hybrid. With the exhaust up front? Nice. Looked like buggy software too at the time I researched it. How is this a proven design?

    From what I understand the Fisker biz is now different than it was in the Karma days. Different people running it? I forget. I do like the emphasis on sustainability. Hope to see something purchase-able in the near future.

    ‘Looks’ are very subjective. I remember when the Ford Taurus came out and people were repulsed. A few years later a lot of cars had similar lines and no one seemed to mind. The Prius and Insight were wedges that people thought were ugly, again those lines are everywhere now.

    I suspect the CyberTruck will be the next example of people being repulsed at first then thinking everything else looks 150 years old by comparison.

    Hopefully Fisker will have all EV (no more hybrids) that are attractive in every way in the near future for a reasonable cost.
  • Yep, the Karma is quite a kar! I had the good fortune to examine one up close and have a nice chat with the owner, a couple years ago. The new models look promising - eMotion is beautiful, but actual production has been delayed since they want to get the Ocean out first. Base price for RWD Ocean of 38k is impressive IF they can actually pull it off. Looks like they are aiming for first Ocean deliveries of the expensive version in 2022. So both cars are a long ways off. Sorry, i dont agree that design is "more than half the battle". it is more like 5%. So, i am not holding my breath for Fiskers.....
  • The Emotion is going to be all electric along with his slated line up of three other vehicles including the Ocean a sports crossover and a pickup.

    As for design Henrik Fisker per Wikapedia is best known for designing luxury cars including the BMW Z8, Aston Martin DB9, Aston Martin V8 Vantage, Fisker Karma, Galpin-Fisker Mustang Rocket, VLF Force 1 V10, VLF Destino V8, Fisker EMotion, Fisker Ocean, and Fisker Orbit.

    I am a Tesla owner but do have a reservation down for the Ocean just because it looks great for an actual sized SUV (also he's currently testing for third row option capability, via his Twitter).

    I like the sustainability CA vibe they have too.
  • Unless Heinrich Fisker has had an epiphany or has someone managing him, the cars are doomed. He's an artist who hated having engineers and business people tell him that his art wasn't realizable for a car. When he got his own company, he trivialized the engineering and business aspect.
    He produced beautiful cars but they didn't work.
    Hopefully, this has changed but I'll reserve judgement until there are actually cars, not just flat images or mock ups.
  • I actually like the Ocean a bit better than the Lucid - better looking and far better pricing. That said, I believe Lucid will deliver actual working cars next year. I have far more doubts about Fisker.

    On the scale of work, developing a marketing list of features takes 0.001% of the work. Developing a nice-looking prototype, about 0.1% of the work. Creating the software to do what Tesla does, maybe 40% of the work. Creating a low volume factory, I'd estimate 56% of the work.

    Fisker looks to have at most 1% done. Lucid looks to have maybe 10-20% of the job done. Both these companies are going to run into unexpected problems - it's in the nature of the business. Tesla has had its share of unexpected problems. Designed and manufacturing vehicles is quite complex, requiring experts in many disciplines, a huge amount of regulatory work, and a ton of capital. For new companies without any experience, it's a huge challenge, as Tesla has shown already. Dropping in lots of cool hardware like massive screens or LIDAR is fairly easy on a prototype. Making it work is another thing entirely.

    I wish both companies success, as I think the products have the potential to be better than anything I've seen from legacy companies. That said, the road ahead is going to be very tough and Tesla is not standing still either.
  • Lucid is a Model S alternative (which is not their best selling category).

    The Fisker Ocean is a full sized SUV and is priced right for the masses.

    I'd say the prototype development stage is a very important stage and as for the unexpected problems and manufacturing heartache that Tesla incurred, Fisker will likely not have as much of those issues since they are collaborating with other suppliers for their hardware and software (think Apple and Foxconn) and there was even a recent article saying Fisker is going to be the Apple of the car industry.
  • If Fisker is relying on suppliers for most of its technology and manufacturing, they are doomed. It's one reason why legacy car companies can no longer compete with Tesla. It also worked poorly for Fisker's prior auto company, which did the same thing.

    Each supplier needs to take its profit margin, so a carmaker's own costs either go up or profits go down. When problems occur with a supplier, you're dependant on them to solve it. With a low volume company, you're at the bottom of the support list and get the "D" development team. Tesla found this out very early on with the Roadster and switched to a mostly in-house vertical integration of design and manufacturing.

    Anyway, I had hoped Fisker learn his painful lesson with his prior company. Looks like he's going down the same path - although with a better prototype.
  • Well, it worked out pretty well for Apple. Fisker knows what happened in the past and is moving forward having that knowledge. For Tesla to build manufacturing plants etc. is very costly and some would say even more risky. There's room for all to succeed. For example, what is Tesla announces on battery day that they are providing batteries for Fiskers. That's a win win for everyone.

    The Fisker Ocean is available to reserve on their webiste and app (and the app looks pretty good).
  • I guess we’ll see when it is available.
  • And what if let's say for instance Fisker has Ferrari build their upcoming Sports car...that would be very appealing.

    Fisker is set to have a 4 EV vehicle line up within a few years all in collaboration with different suppliers/manufacturers.

    No one cares who makes the electric engine that is in an EV etc. they care about design and functionality (think Apple).
  • Cool, you can start a Fisker forum now. Will be a long 4 years.
  • Fisker falls under the general category here. And the Ocean is available to reserve right now for delivery in 2022. Yes the sports car and others will come after but they should be worth the wait and will be exciting to see what happens with them along the way.
  • This is Tesla forum and not Fisker promotion forum.
  • What if Tesla provides batteries for Fisker...this is a possibility.
  • Tesla could provide batteries, drive trains, software, heat pump, octo valve, air suspension to any automaker. Probably what is going to happen anyway since no company can keep up with their rapid innovation, and have yet to actually sell EVs profitably.
  • I doubt Tesla will sell batteries to Fisker or anyone else. They need all the batteries they get and have been going out to other companies to manufacture more batteries to Tesla's specifications. Let's say company X makes batteries and sells to Fisker and Tesla. Who is going to get the best designs off of the most reliable lines? The volume customer. If there is a shortage who is going to get deliveries - the volume long-term customer, Tesla. If I were Fisker, I'd pick a battery supplier than is not used by the other big guys, but I suspect the big guys have already locked up production from the best battery manufacturers. It's going to be tough for all these startups to get in the door. Tesla did it before there was a battery rush.
  • On "No one cares who makes the electric engine that is in an EV etc. they care about design and functionality (think Apple)."

    So wrong on so many levels. Do you care if your motor dies after 3 months due to poor design? Do you care your car gets 150 miles of range on the same battery Tesla gets 300 miles because the motor Tesla designed is far more efficient? Do you care that the 0-60 time is 10 seconds or 4 seconds? Do you care if the motor is so loud, you can't carry a conversation in the car? All these and many more are factors on the motor design. A junk design that no one cares about is not going to compare well to the best available. So far Tesla has the best motors available. I'm not implying that Fisker or anyone else is using a junk motor, but the motor is a huge part of any successful EV. Picking some OEM motor may be good, but no one has gone through as many iterations as Tesla in proven volume to create some amazing motors.

    These issues matter to most owners, even if people don't understand what a motor does.
  • > @"TeslaTap.com" I'm assuming here that the electric motor that Fisker goes with is comparable (or better) than the Tesla motor. No one knows what's going to happen but things are moving forward and that is good for everyone (and the environment).
  • Come back when they actually sell anything.
  • Or should I say build and sell.
  • > @WW_spb said:
    > Or should I say build and sell.

    Well Fisker isn't building anything themselves and that's the whole idea of their business model, again taking a page from Apples book. You can reserve their Fisker Ocean right now for $250. All the details on it are yet to be released but a lot of info is already up on their website.
  • Apple revolutionized the computer and the phone. They did not offload their vision to another company to make it happen. Fisker is not an Apple. They are not revolutionizing anything. Tesla already did that, and is taking it to the next level like what Apple did after they succeeded with their computers. Now they have a foot in many industries. Your analogy is embarrassingly inaccurate.
  • > @andy_connor_e said:
    > Apple revolutionized the computer and the phone. They did not offload their vision to another company to make it happen. Fisker is not an Apple. They are not revolutionizing anything. Tesla already did that, and is taking it to the next level like what Apple did after they succeeded with their computers. Now they have a foot in many industries. Your analogy is embarrassingly inaccurate.

    There was a recent article written saying the complete opposite thing you are about the comparison between Fisker and Apple. Apple came late to the game with Cell phones etc. and basically improved the design/functionality while outsourcing the manufacturing.

    https://www.axios.com/fisker-electric-vehicles-self-driving-270e40c1-79ef-4079-b9e8-0d84542fd4b6.html
  • Apple literally revolutionized the phone.

    Look here this article. Ok buddy.
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