Cybertruck

Low Range

A coworker (also off-roader) and I were discussing the lack of a low range in the Cybertruck.

One of the things that came up is that due to the amount of torque available that low range isn't needed for torque delivery, but that isn't the only reason we use low range in a 4X4, we often use it just to slow things down so we aren't bouncing so hard through the trails.

It then dawned on us that this could be done in software by limiting the max power to something like 25% and re-mapping the throttle to that with a slower initial curve for precise slow control.

Comments

  • I assumed that there would be a crawl mode that did what you suggest and also tried to match up the rotational speed of front and back. Roughly approximating the function of a center locker.
  • I’m an avid land cruiser off roader. Had a built out 80 for almost 20 years now have a 200. Low range is mostly for increasing torque to the wheels (and occurs in the drivetrain) also helps with throttle control. Since electric motors have massive instant torque and EVs do not have a transmission low range is not needed or possible.

    It will not be an issue.
  • Put it in chill, it'll probably still have more power and torque available that any comparable ICE pickup.

    Daisy, they'll probably just rename chill to creep... ;-)
  • that = than
  • Tesla already has an automatic "low" in all it's cars today. It's actually quite easy to move inches at a time. Basically, the accelerator gets less sensitive the slower you drive. So in a garage, I can stop on a dime - repeatably. No need for some special "low" mode. Of course, you have fantastic torque too, which is available from 0 mph. Chill mode can make the accelerator even less sensitive, but I'm not sure it's really needed once you get the hang of it.

    The accelerator/transmission operation of an ICE car seems so ancient once you drive a Tesla! So those that have never experienced a Tesla vehicle are going to be surprised how well it works.
  • >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the things that came up is that due to the amount of torque available that low range isn't needed for torque delivery, but that isn't the only reason we use low range in a 4X4, we often use it just to slow things down so we aren't bouncing so hard through the trails.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I tow a casita - 3,000 loads. I like to go into the Colorado mountains. Many times I use the low range in my ICE vehicle so I can go slow- these roads are rough & steep. Going up is easy, going downhill can burn up brakes on an ICE.

    I am guessing that the regenerative capacities could do a lot of slowing down while going (think steep & rough - walking speed is neccesary, with a lot of weight pushing you) downhill.

    If I have to use regular brakes, that could cause problems,

    Wonder how the other testlas handle this while going downmountain passes
  • @DanAtTheCape - With regen, going downhill is easy - minimal if any brakes needed. If you are towing something, then you may need to be concerned with the brakes on the trailer, but that's true no matter what type of vehicle is pulling and slowing it.

    You might test drive another Tesla to see how cool the one-pedal driving really is. As for going slow, every day, I stop within an inch of where I want in my garage, as it's so easy. It is very easy to moderate your speed in an EV, and the Cybertruck will not be any different.

    It's hard to comprehend until you drive an EV, then you wonder why you put up with the clunky ICE for so long. Even those cars with luxury 10-speed automatics are not as smooth as any EV.
  • I forgot to provide a warning on a test drive. Quite a few people test drive a Tesla with no plans to buy. They then turn around and then buy it! It is very addictive!
  • @"TeslaTap.com" nothing you have said on this thread is relevant or would apply to using low range for off roading. Please do not continue to talk about things that don’t apply and it seems you know nothing about.

    Throttle modulation is super touchy on a Tesla and yes they need some type of throttle commander mapping for a simulated low range and/or crawl control on the CT.
  • Cole, I off-road (rock-crawl) regularly. The control issue to that you mention is real. It really doesn't apply to a properly designed EV. Throttle response on an EV is entirely under the control of the software. It could be programmed to deliver 0.1 mph fully depressed.

    Here is another thing to think about: the rotational position of the motor can be directly calculated. Thus the system could be designed to inch forward/backward by a set distance with each tap of the cruise control stalk.

    Summon would be great in dicey off-road situations, where seeing exact wheel placement is paramount. It would sure save a lot of seat wear getting in and out to check.
  • ^^^Fully agree. The off road potential of EVs is huge. The traction potential of 4 independent high torque motors, no need for lockers, customizable throttle mapping, ... I just hope 17 or 18” rims will fit and there is a no air suspension (or air delete) option.

    There are days I regret getting rid of my 80 series. Now thinking I may get the CT and I’m leaning toward keeping my 200 but going from 33’s to at least 35’s and doing the front end long travel conversion, keeping it as my wheeling rig.
  • @coleAK - About the only Tesla I haven't driven is the new Roadster and the Cybertruck and I have about 8 years now driving Teslas. Agree I've not done a lot of off-roading but enough to understand how an EV can be tuned to make for a fantastic offroad experience. Will Tesla do that tuning? I expect so, but until we get our hands on a Cybertruck with final software, we are all guessing a bit and using our expertise with what Tesla has available now.

    Note that there is no 4 motor Cybertruck currently announced. There are 1, 2, and 3 motor versions announced.

    Another huge advantage Tesla has is with Traction control. An EV like a Tesla can provide almost instant traction control, unlike ICE cars that are relatively slow to react.
  • ^^^. Again. Driving many Tesla’s does not make you knowledgeable to off roading and the way low range is used in different scenarios. I’ve owned 2 Tesla’s, had an S for 4 years and now have had a 3 for over 2 years and I’m an avid off-roader to get to skiing, hunting, fishing, and overall backcountry access.

    To be speak frankly the Tesla traction control is fairly poor, no where close to the traction of a well set up Torsen like my Land cruiser, older Audi and MBs, and some Subarus.

    In my experience in a straight line they are rear bias, rear slightly breaks free then front kicks in, it creates sort of a “wobble” feeling especially when going up hill. In a side slide it just fully cuts the power. So not crippling as I make it just fine all year but It is not smooth, seamless, or well designed. On dry roads handling is great on poor surfaces like solid ice and fresh loose snow Feel like it was an afterthought.
  • Looks like the Hummer EV is doing the same things as the Cybertruck. No geared low mode - it can all be done in software. Guess we'll have to wait and see how Tesla implements it.
  • Traction control is operated by the brakes, or specialized differentials so no significant difference between ICE and EV. In my experience traction control doesn't give you that much more capability. When you loose traction on one wheel by the time the traction control kicks in you have already lost momentum.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm5iVpt-tbk

    I have done similar in a 2wd pickup with no locker and no traction control due to good articulation (and a bit of skinny pedal).

    I expect that they will do several iterations with feedback to fine tune the off-road capabilities.

    Gotta give this next guy cudos for pushing a modified Y.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NknUPr_ycxc
  • @coleAK - I always thought traction control is done mostly through the motor/engine. In an ICE, you drop the engine power, which takes time. In an EV the power changes can be done almost instantly.

    Isn't stability control the system that operates the brakes?

    Here's one article that confirms this operation: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/108191/traction-control-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work
  • Traction control on an ICE vehicle with one motor is done with the brakes. That is not how any rational engineer would do it with multiple high torque motors in an EV.

    Any wheel with it's own motor can be rotated (slowly and with great force) to any desired position. The two back wheels will be managed that way.

    A motor with a differential and two wheels must use braking, or some form of lockers, to manage the side-to-side torque. The front wheels will be managed that way. Front to back torque balance is easily managed through electronic controls.
  • > @"TeslaTap.com" said:
    > @coleAK - I always thought traction control is done mostly through the motor/engine. In an ICE, you drop the engine power, which takes time. In an EV the power changes can be done almost instantly.
    >
    > Isn't stability control the system that operates the brakes?
    >
    > Here's one article that confirms this operation: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/108191/traction-control-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work

    The early versions yes, modern traction control also applies the brakes with much less throttling back.

    Stability control is built on traction control and yes it also uses the brakes.
  • Thanks for the updated info on Traction control. Learn new stuff every day :)
  • Traction/stability or whatever, our 2003 MB e 4Matic will run circles around our model 3 on winter roads. A few things, I can assure you all that the 3 does use brakes to modular traction across the front or rear diff. It’s an open diff with a motor in the middle, you can feel the pulse when it happens. Front motor to back motor is where it gets wonky. Rear wheels break free then there is a lag before the front motor kicks in to straighten it out, then the back kicks out, front straightens,... it leads to a wobble feel when going uphill on slick roads. Never lose control but it just feels odd.
  • The traction control in my 84 CJ7 works real well too, just don't ask it to turn any sharp corners when its fully engaged. :smiley:
  • ^^^yes it does work well. Had the same type in my J60, 80 series, and g500. Triple locked...
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