Model 3

Model 3 - Stop sign in a 55 mph state road

I live in Morton, IL. There is an all way stop sign on Stateway 150 in a 55 mph zone. My car comes so fast and suddenly it understands that there is a stop sign and gives out loud alert. I am forced to take control every time that I come to that stop sign. Has anyone else experienced the same?
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Comments

  • No. But that’s a good edge case I guess for training the network/your car.
  • I think it uses GPS and map data to determine when a traffic signal is coming up. It is capable of doing it on it's own, as you can see, but not from very far.

    My guess is there is no map/gps data for that stop sign.
  • I have experienced it many times. Try it on a posted 65 mph road if you really want a thrill! I give it a try once in awhile after a new update but for the most part, disengage before the excitement begins. In my area, there are stop warning signs maybe 100 yards before the actual stop sign but the car has yet to take the clue.
  • I have a similar scenario as OP. I've done a bug report on it. Am hoping with some of the changes in Beta, it may be better able to detect things. Even so, this is one case out of hundreds that i've experienced. So I'm extremely happy. As M3phan said, these edge cases will disappear over time as machine learning progresses.
  • Has it ever occurred to anybody that we are, actually, paying a premium to risk our lives and be Beta testers. Or maybe is Alpha testers.... Having an EAP car (RWD June 2018) has been a fun experience, but the stakes with the advent of FSD are getting a lot higher safety risk-wise.
  • Alpha testing is performed internally. Anything in consumers’ hands is beta by definition. The system definitely needs to be actively monitored at this point in development, but I feel safe using it while being vigilant.
  • I hope I didn’t imply I feel unsafe while using AP. My car is in AP 95+% while I’m driving. The times it is not are when I know it is not capable of handling a particular scenario, such as the topic of this discussion. There are occasions where the car does something unpredictable that get followed up by a bug report but those are less and less as new versions come out.
  • walnotr +1

    Agreed. There are a couple of tight turns near my house that AP takes too fast for my comfort. I just disengage when I get close to home. I'm sure this will improve with further refinement.
  • > @M3phan said: But that’s a good edge case I guess for training the network/your car."

    There's no "training the car". Those kinds of situations need to be programmed in like the rest.

    Send Tesla a bug report.
  • Tesla isn't using SuperCruise FishBrain.
  • You don’t have a firm grasp of how machine learning and deep neural nets work, Fish, so I’d recommend not commenting on them.
  • > @chidu07_98492127 said:
    > I live in Morton, IL. There is an all way stop sign on Stateway 150 in a 55 mph zone. My car comes so fast and suddenly it understands that there is a stop sign and gives out loud alert. I am forced to take control every time that I come to that stop sign. Has anyone else experienced the same?

    I'm confused. If there is an all way stop sign, don't you have to stop? Are you coming up on the stop sign at 55 mph? Should you be coming up at a slower speed? Are you complaining that the car is not slowing down automatically? I don't remember ever seeing a stop sign in a 55mph zone. Talk about dangerous.
  • There should definitely be warning signs ahead of that stop sign to warn of the impending stop sign. Now have the car actually pay attention to those signs to know there is a stop coming up would be helpful. All these edge cases will get dealt with over time.
  • Not sure if I missed it, but what hardware and firmware is the OP running?
  • > @larry_98733015 said:
    > > @chidu07_98492127 said:
    > > I live in Morton, IL. There is an all way stop sign on Stateway 150 in a 55 mph zone. My car comes so fast and suddenly it understands that there is a stop sign and gives out loud alert. I am forced to take control every time that I come to that stop sign. Has anyone else experienced the same?
    >
    > I'm confused. If there is an all way stop sign, don't you have to stop? Are you coming up on the stop sign at 55 mph? Should you be coming up at a slower speed? Are you complaining that the car is not slowing down automatically? I don't remember ever seeing a stop sign in a 55mph zone. Talk about dangerous.

    Highway 71 going west into Bastrop, Texas has a red light intersection in a 75 mph zone. Bit of an oversight, I'd say. Last time I passed through, I looked behind me - no cars - looked toward the intersection - no cars.

    So I let the 3 do what the 3 does in EAP. It started the dramatic slowdown WAY too close to the intersection but stopped right at the line. I could feel the tires slightly giving way in that last second.

    I'll give Tesla credit for managing the stop, but dayum!!
  • @larry

    They're all over the place around here. All the main roads are mostly posted at 55mph and are on a 1 square mile grid. Traffic lights, red and yellow flashers, or, 4 way stop signs at every intersection.

    Looks like I'm doing a NOA test run detour on the way home. Will report back.
  • YOU are driving your car. AP is helping when it can.
    If you don't understand that, you should not be using AP.
    I suggest that @syclone not even consider using AP until he/she comprehends what it is.
  • @LostInTx
    Hey it did what it was supposed to do though, STOP, haha. Rollercoaster ride but hey that's just all in the details to be worked out.

    I did look at the OP's location, I just found the first 4 way stop on 150(at Washington RD) that I could find. West of that stop about 1000 feet there is a Stop ahead sign. Same thing in the east bound direction. So as far as Tesla and FSD is concerned, it will need to pay attention to that warning sign. Ideally it would be nice if the car new the stop sign was there in the first place, but that isn't really the intent of FSD and the NN.
  • edited October 29
    > @Frank99 said: > You don’t have a firm grasp of how machine learning and deep neural nets work"

    It is one of the fanbois fantasies that the car "learns" and has a "neural net". Tesla gets very little if any data from owners cars. It is 99.9% irrelevant and impossible to sort through it for the 00.1% that might be of use.

    There's even doubt that the "bug report" owners thing they are sending to Tesla is even sent.

    In this case, no matter how many times @chidom900_93500660 drives through that stop sign, the car will not "learn" anything and unless he sends a bug report and unless Tesla reads and unless Tesla reprograms the car, they care will still behave the same.
  • Said by a guy who knows nothing about neural networks.
  • "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong." - LS
  • FYI, I'm not the machine learning guy, but we have a machine learning guy in my company who does magical things analyzing images using neural networks and they most definitely learn from what they see.
  • Cars are doing major uploads to NN nightly. Winning.
  • When I say magical, I mean the neural network is recognizing features in an image that most humans would have a hard time seeing, and sometimes sees features that a human cannot see. How? Training data.
  • The car's NN is not learning in real time. The NN is how ever able to identify objects that are not explicitly coded for. And by object I mean an object looking different ways because of lighting, background, foreground, partial blockage, etc.. For example, the car's NN may never have seen a stop sign that is half blocked by another object, but it could possibly correctly identify that stop sign as a stop sign correctly.

    The car DOES have a NN, but that NN is not a dynamically learning system in the car. The NN learns in Tesla servers by being fed different data, and updates then pushed to the vehicles.

    Tesla IS getting HUGE amounts of data from the fleet, when Tesla REQUESTS such data from the fleet. The cars aren't just blindly sending everything to Tesla cause Tesla doesn't need all of that.

    Technically the OP didn't actually say the car ran the stop sign so it is still technically up in the air as to whether the car would have actually stopped or attempted to stop, as long as all the appropriate setting are set in the menus and that the OP has FSD.
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