Model 3

How Volkswagen’s $50 Billion Plan to Beat Tesla Short-Circuited

Suck it, Fish

https://apple.news/A-ij2t-U2TGesw5ks_dUJBQ
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Comments

  • Looks successful so far and none of the car mfgs car about "beating" Tesla. The, like Tesla, are going zero emissions because it is requirement.

    https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/181331/sneaky-vw-422-000-ev-phev-in-2020/p1
  • “Faulty software set back a bid by the world’s largest car maker for electric-vehicle dominance”

    Suck it, Fish
  • The, like Tesla, are going zero emissions because it is requirement.-fish

    As long as it is a check box requirement, the products will suck.
  • Are we talking about that company that lied to government regulators for years because they were unable to comply with emissions regulations?

    Seems like they're already running on borrowed time. Perhaps they should just give all of their remaining money to Tesla instead of wasting it on failure.
  • It’s laughable that the bar chart used to compare unit sales between Tesla and the traditional automakers includes plug-in electric hybrid vehicles. Otherwise, the sales of the traditional automakers would barely even appear.
  • Exactly! That's how Fish plays his little false info war against Tesla.
  • It's as if Fish's performance review rating depended upon him responding to every thread like this one.
  • What a mess. A few takeaways:

    - Still no OTA software - maybe this year, but all cars will have to go to the dealer to add the feature
    - VW trying to compete with Tesla by 2024 - forgetting Tesla is not standing still
    - VW's OS v1.0 in current cars is buggy and missing major features
    - VW's OS v2.0 replacement not due until 2025 and will finally offer some advanced features
    - They have been focused on "project “Mission T”—as in beat Tesla". They'd be a lot better off focusing on making a good car.

    At least they are trying. That's more than many other automakers.
  • > @FISHEV said:
    > Looks successful so far and none of the car mfgs car about "beating" Tesla.

    Uhm, our definition of successful differ considerably.

    ".... But the fancy technology features VW had promised were either absent or broken. The company’s programmers hadn’t yet figured out how to update the car’s software remotely. Its futuristic head-up display that was supposed to flash speed, directions and other data onto the windshield didn’t function. Early owners began reporting hundreds of other software bugs."

    Seems "other" than successful.
  • All of the above: Ha. And interesting. And, I might add, VW CEO has complained that if there was one thing he wished he could do, it would be to _buy_ Tesla's software development team.
    OK. I get it. Good software development is hard to do. People go to school, spend 4 to 6 years getting a degree in CS (if not more, getting a PhD), go to work, have to deliver, figure out how to do coding processes with inspections and all, and then go to Tesla and start doing miracles. Thing is, with Tesla, the Boss is an Engineer, has been around Software for ages, and knows when the heck to (a) get out of the way and/or (b) actually successfully _manage_ a software team, up to and including demoting and promoting bad/good software developers, in a way that doesn't get the rest of the team made at him.
    What doesn't work: Outsourcing Everything To Third Parties, Firing All the SW Developers that are Doing Stuff, watching the ones left (who figure there's no future) that are competent Leaving, thus making sure that those that are left are, shall we say, there for the pension and are _barely_ competent to _supervise_ the outsourced stuff (and, likely, are decades out of school and, since they haven't been doing the new coding stuff, are Exceedingly Rusty), and then trying to Make It All Work.
    It's not just the worker bees: Organizations like this have issues with direct, middle, and upper management. It's like having hardening of the arteries or something. Getting a ship like that turned around, it's HARD. Not just because one is chummy with some manager or other: It's because trying to figure out who's competent and who's not means knowing enough about the topic to actually make value judgements on people's abilities. It's one thing if one's a business management major or accountant as a CEO, then it's quite likely that one _can_ make those kinds of judgements on similar types. But on CS majors? Whoo, boy.
  • Got me thinking about what the scope would be for for EV operating system. Few off of my head:
    - Secure to xth degree. From the source code repository to the client (car), and everything in between.
    - Scalable to xth degree. As in, hundreds of millions of cars.
    - Human Computer Interaction (HCI) design that is backward and future compatible. Possibly for cars that are decades from the past or decades into the future.
    - Remotely and securely push code changes and update cars located around the globe.
    - Self diagnosis, hazard analysis, auto failover, and self reporting functions.
    - Can't nerf cars in the fleet. As in 6+ sigmas.
    - Compliance to all software laws and regulations for each international market.
    .....

    I'm no sw engineer, but even I realize the daunting challenge. I can see why competitors say Tesla is years ahead.
  • Tesla was years ahead when Elon made the infamous self-driving declaration, but Tesla is now slowly fading to the back. It is a real shame.
  • Another thing Tesla handles is partial updates. In the early days, they had to always do a full update. Now they have a system that only sends the updates needed for a specific car and features in that car. For example, there is no need to send a software update for the air suspension system to any car that doesn't have the air suspension. This speeds the updates, causes less eMMC wear, and uses a lot less bandwidth. That's also why some updates are never made to some cars - the changes don't affect those cars.
  • Y to ID4 Comparison:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPx8vhL0nSc
  • Howie is so emotional.
  • @HAL2001 - I didn't realize how poorly the ID.4 stacks up against the Model Y. When compared against the Y, the ID.4 charges at about half the speed, has a very slow 0-60, not as efficient, has limited charging networks, and is only RWD that costs more than then AWD Y LR.

    I guess the plan is to try and win customers with a massive advertising campaign because anyone comparing the ID.4 with a Tesla is going to go with Tesla.
  • > @"TeslaTap.com" said:
    > @HAL2001 - I didn't realize how poorly the ID.4 stacks up against the Model Y. When compared against the Y, the ID.4 charges at about half the speed, has a very slow 0-60, not as efficient, has limited charging networks, and is only RWD that costs more than then AWD Y LR.
    >
    > I guess the plan is to try and win customers with a massive advertising campaign because anyone comparing the ID.4 with a Tesla is going to go with Tesla.

    The ID4 seems to tick all the boxes for Fishy. But all the boxes are named "Is not Tesla"! LOL
  • > @"TeslaTap.com" said:
    > @HAL2001 - I didn't realize how poorly the ID.4 stacks up against the Model Y. When compared against the Y, the ID.4 charges at about half the speed, has a very slow 0-60, not as efficient, has limited charging networks, and is only RWD that costs more than then AWD Y LR.
    >

    Wait, how is $43k>$49k?
  • @nnguyen72_BayArea - You are correct. I should have compared the ID.4 to the Y SR.

    ID.4 $43K vs. $42K and both are RWD. All other comparisons still hold.
  • VW still qualifies for the $7,500 fed rebate.
  • > @nnguyen72_BayArea said:
    > VW still qualifies for the $7,500 fed rebate.

    And Tesla is selling more EV's than VW even though its tax credit expired.
  • > @HAL2001 said:
    > > @nnguyen72_BayArea said:
    > > VW still qualifies for the $7,500 fed rebate.
    >
    > And Tesla is selling more EV's than VW even though its tax credit expired.

    I’d hope so. VW and all these other legacy automakers are playing catch up. Not sure why you’re being so defensive. I own a Model 3 myself, but seriously considering a ID.4 as a second vehicle. I actually have a deposit down for one.
  • @nnguyen72_BayArea,
    The legacy guys were here first. Many crushed the first fledgling EVs when they were found to be viable and popular. VW, for years promoted that their Diesels were cleaner and better than EVs -- until their deception was discovered. Many of us have little love for them. They're going to have to prove themselves.
    Also, some of us old timers have gotten tired of legacy ICE companies making a big fuss about their upcoming Tesla killer; only to turn out a disappointment that does more to deter people from buying EVs that to help.
    If someone would produce a car that actually is better than a Tesla, some of us would be very happy.
    I hope the ID.4 is good. We also hoped that the Bolt would be good only to be disappointed in its slow charging rate, shortage of available fast chargers, limited quantity availability, dealers anti-selling it, high price, and lackluster design.
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