Model S

"GM Takes on Tesla - and Just Might Win" and "VW Wants to Win With Electric Cars"

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Comments

  • edited November -1
    BUT. Both the VW and the GM EVs will have two dozen cup holders.
  • edited November -1
    An analogy is how the car companies have competed on hybrid tech with the Prius. It's a decade and a half later, the Prius has improved only incrementally, and still, almost nothing comes close on mileage.

    You have to care to do well. Toyota cared with the hybrid. The others just want a hybrid for their lineup. I am afraid it will be so for electrics as well.
  • edited November -1
    What some of these companies fail to realize is that they may be able to copy Tesla and make a comparable EV car, but they aren't going to have the charging infrastructure that Tesla will have by the time the E comes out.

    Most of the U.S. will be able to be traveled to/through with a Tesla, the competition will have to rely on current SLOW charging infrastructure.

    Tesla has really thought this whole thing through, while other companies that want to compete with Tesla do not seem focused on the big picture IMO.
  • edited November -1
    <b>ThomasK wrote:</b>
    <i>But. both the VW and the GM EVs will have two dozen cup holders.</i>
    No, they would construct a giant cup holder on wheels!
  • edited November -1
    GM's version of vaporware.
  • edited November -1
    I'll say it again. No one can copy Tesla because no one has the fast response, rapid engineering culture that Tesla has. And no one will, until another Elon comes along and starts their own car company. Don't you guys realize we are seeing the same thing that happened with PCs? The old companies are too inefficient and slow to compete.

    Hasn't anyone realized the ramifications of what Tesla is? It is the first new viable car company in 100 years. That's huge. Everyone was saying that it couldn't be done. Now that it is done, people have forgotten that it was supposed to be impossible.
  • edited November -1
    An electric Mission Impossible. ;)
  • edited November -1
    Regardless of how serious and committed GM is actually is to this plan, I would think it would seen as great news here. One of Elon Musk's goals in starting Tesla was to lead by example and show that people will buy EVs if they don't have to compromise on range, looks and size. Making EVs appealing and available to everyone will take more than just Tesla, so be glad that these other manufacturers are taking notice!
  • edited November -1
    @ toby_wan_kenoby - Of course the superchargers are special, do you know of any other charging infrastructure anywhere that can charge at 120 kW? The other problem with your hypothesis is that none of the other car companies have the will to produce a competing infrastructure. They don't have the brass, simple as that. GM's announcement was nothing more than a vague reference to something they are going to do at some point in the future, but without any commitments. You can also bet that anything these car companies create won't be free and they will surely suck you dry on service and force you to pay a dealer markup. Oh goody!

    Tesla, by contrast, has shipped two different EV platforms and is about to ship their third vehicle design next year. GM has yet to deliver a single EV with even half the range of Tesla's bottom of the line Model S. So no, GM is not a threat and will not "win" anything except ridicule. Announcing a product that doesn't exist is a desperate move on GM's part, it doesn't seem to make sense.

    Also, some of you seem to imply that Elon's only goal with Tesla is to push other manufacturers to start selling EVs. Really? So as soon as GM, Ford and others produce a viable EV, Tesla is going to do what, roll over and die? Why would Tesla license its technology to its competition? That's like saying Apple should license iOS to Samsung and get out of the iPhone business. Really?
  • edited November -1
    Elon said he wanted other players, because he knows just well as others that if Tesla is the only player, Tesla won't succeed in the long run. GM, VW and Toyota will all come into the game (Ford has done so already in a very limited way). In my opinion, that's good. It will become like the battle between Apple and Android. Some will love Tesla and others will love the others. However, Tesla will always be the standard where all other EVs will be compared to, as is the case with Apple. Now, the big question is when will the others fully jump into the game. GM has only mentioned they will build one, but they really haven't stated when it will come out. In other words, they want to see how Tesla is going to do in the market. Trust me, if Tesla fails, they will not be building an EV or stop whatever they're doing and change direction for another kind of propulsion vehicle.
  • edited November -1
    Not to worry, by the time GM and VW come out with a 200 mile EV, Tesla will have a 500 mile EV. Coupled with the SC network; Tesla will maintain its advantage for many many years to come.

    Having said that, I welcome GM and VW attempting to compete in the EV marketplace. The more manufacturers that do this, the better. Every car needs to become an EV and Tesla cannot do that alone.
  • edited November -1
    We should cheer for any credible EV bought to market--things like the build out of a national fast charging networks will only happen when there is a critical mass of EVs and someone sees the business oppty in an untapped market. I think the SuperCharger network is a competitive advantage for Tesla, but it is not going to help broader EV adoption. For that to happen, everyone needs to be fielding credible vehicles. While I love the SC network is probably not going to go everywhere I might want to drive, so a broader charger build-out is imperative, especially in the middle of the country.

    That being said, I don't think the challenge for the GMs and VWs of the world is engineering or R&D - they probably spend more in a week than Tesla does in a year. There is a lot of smugness on the board bout Tesla's competitive advantage and I think it wold be a mistake to confuse "can't" and "won't".

    The problem is that GM, Ford, VM, etc are saddled with an an ICE-centered business model--everything from the way the cars are built to the way they are sold through dealers. Until they can transition business models and find a way to incent dealers move EVs, its is going to be tough for them.

    O
  • edited November -1
    I'd love to see it, but it won't happen over night. They'll start out by trying to be "better" and then they'll fail at it and simply start blatantly copying Tesla's designs but not doing it as well.... Sound familiar?
  • edited November -1
    GM has won--- with Powerpoint. Where is the car?
  • edited November -1
    Amazed me that 17 years ago GM had an electric car that had better range and performance than the Nissan Leaf does today. They had something going just a little too soon...
  • edited November -1
    Fun thread, I think.

    Competition is good.

    I will bet on the more focused and committed company.
  • edited November -1
    omarsultan | SEPTEMBER 17, 2013
    So GM's latest offering is going to the Cadillac ELR - 207 HP, 35 EV mile range, all for a cool $65K

    That is a pathetic electric range for a $65K car before you add options. What a joke.
  • edited November -1
    GM has been threatening a world beater electric car for the past 40yrs.....this is the latest round.......
  • edited November -1
    The ELR is actually a great object lesson for folks unhappy with the MS' minimalist interior. The ELR actually ekes more HP and juice out of the basic Volt platform, but they have added so much bling the effective range remains the same as the more modest Volt.

    O
  • edited November -1
    EVs are just simply better cars. I believe that as prices decline and range anxiety is eradicated by time and education, before too long demand will increase faster than supply due to the appeal to buyers in the EV's price range and $5,000-$10,000 below it. A premium will apply to the best EV's. Sales of Leafs and Volts (ok not exactly an EV) picked up as incentives increased and prices dropped. Tesla has increased production and prices yet is still supply constrained.

    There will be plenty of room for all EV manufacturers for a long time.
  • edited November -1
    GM WHO ? LOL TESLA FOR LIFE
  • edited November -1
    Big oil still has their iron-fisted grip around ICE automakers you-know-whats. I doubt we will ever see GM, VW, BMW, et al make a serious long range EV. Big oil killed the EV that GM produced before and will forever influence those companies.
  • edited November -1
    When TN has a 500-mi battery, it can swap out the SC chargers 12 250-mi batteries, and thus double the SC charge rate. The old batteries will bulk up the buffer banks on site.
  • JHMJHM
    edited November -1
    Maybe Portlandia can do a sketch for GM and VW, "Put a battery in it!"
  • edited November -1
    Two things:

    1)

    At the moment nobody can compete with Tesla Motors, and in the coming years it does not look like that there will be any competition for Tesla Motors at all. But eventually there will be, that's for sure, because these car companies have lots of resources. But competition is good, that's exactly what Elon Musk wants them to do. And when there will be competition, Tesla Motors will have grown up, they will be selling many many many EV's per year. They will even have become market leader of EV's by then.

    2)

    When more and more car manufacturers start selling more and more EV models, then the annual market share of EV's will start to rise. And that's exactly what needs to happen. So, it's good that GM and VW (and others) are having some attention for EV's as well now. Even if their (current) EV's cannot compete with the Tesla EV's. So, let them introduce as many EV models as they can, the more the better, I would say. Every EV that gets sold is one less ICE sold. That's how I think about it.
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