General

Question: Will lithium-ION batteries become obsoleted soon?

edited November -1 in General
Recently some industry insiders have expressed their hesitancy in making substantial capital investment in lithium-ion battery manufacturing. They appear to lack confidence at the future of the lithium-ion technology.

As a fan of Tesla, I have two questions:

1. Are there any new battery technologies that may replace lithium-ION batteries in near future?

2. How will Tesla manage this risk when building its giga-factory? Will it be easy for the factory to switch if a new battery technology comes along?


Cheers,
Victor

Comments

  • edited November -1
    1/ no

    2/planning. Yes.
  • edited November -1
    American Physical Society article in 2012:

    "Researchers agreed that the lithium-ion chemistry used in today’s generation of batteries for electric cars–and laptops and cell phones–is reaching maturity..."

    "Research is presently focused on two different chemistries: lithium/oxygen (lithium/air) and lithium/sulfur."


    http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/201207/electriccars.cfm
  • edited November -1
    Maturity is good. It still has the best energy density.
  • edited November -1
    B744Mike,
    +1
  • edited November -1
    @Fan of Tesla

    Yes the current chemical makeup of lithium ion technology has reached it's peak density/production capacity. What they're not telling you is: the lithium-ion battery's chemistry is being changed by adding sulfer or graphene/carbon, or whatever they are coming up with so they can make the power/weight/density ratio better.

    They aren't giving up on lithium-ion technology, they are devising ways to make it better.
  • edited November -1
    @Go_Peddle_4_me:

    Good to know the continued improvement of Li-ION.

    Apparently nonflammable lithium ion battery has just been developed:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140210161326.htm

    I imagine this must be a great news for EVs.
  • edited November -1
    Yeah, but note carefully what they're still working on: performance: " optimizing electrolyte conductivity and improving battery cycling characteristics." It won't burn, but is it effective and durable enough?
  • edited November -1
    "Lithium-ion" is very vague term. You can pretty much change all the elements in the battery (except lithium) and still call it "lithium-ion battery". Saying that it has reached maturity is false.

    Actually that quote says "today’s generation". That's kind of tautology, anything used widely today is mature tech, that's pretty much definition of mature.
  • edited November -1
    Yes, in tech terms, "mature" = obsolete, or about to be so.
  • edited November -1
    What we really need is Protoculture Infused Dilithium Crystals with Energon Cubes aligned to coincide with a Dodecahedron Biobattery Matrix. Then all our energy concerns would be met. Yup.
  • edited November -1
    Miniature black holes as power source. You can use any material and get pretty near 100% matter/energy conversion and also permanently get rid of trash at the same time. Does require some juggling of gravitational fields though to prevent that black hole colliding with chamber walls.
  • edited November -1
    Porous Graphene super-capacitors have recently been developed, which might soon be ready for EV use.

    Check this (naturally, add http://www.):

    technologyreview.com/view/521651/graphene-supercapacitors-ready-for-electric-vehicle-energy-storage-say-korean-engineers/
  • edited November -1
    Why didn't you add that "http://www".? Tesla site automatically makes that a link.
  • edited November -1
    Wrong assumption(s) in site: batteries can't store braking energy because they take hours to charge.

    1) batteries don't need to take hours to recharge
    and
    2) that has nothing to do with storing braking energy. Power is limited by battery size, not charge speed (though those are related).

    64Wh/kg is still way too low energy density.

    ...actual article (http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1311/1311.1548.pdf) talks about 83.4Wh/kg. That's actually pretty impressive considering how high power values that has. Definitely comparable to current generation high power/low energy density Li-ion batteries.

    Just not high enough energy density to beat batteries in EV:s.
  • edited November -1
    Here is the source: http://powerjapanplus.com/battery/equation.html

    Pretty nice if true, looks like about 400Wh/kg. Lithium battery, but not the conventional model.
  • edited November -1
    Timo - why do you indicate that it is a lithium battery? Looks like it is carbon based - I don't see a reference to lithium anywhere on their description of the technology.
  • edited November -1
    Whoops - my bad Timo. Now I see what you were referring to:

    "The dual carbon design used in the battery, combined with an organic electrolyte, allows for a unique current flow within the battery. Positively charged lithium ions flow to the anode and the negatively charged anions flow to the cathode."
Sign In or Register to comment.