General

Supercharging ISSUES by ICE vehicles continue to worsen in some area

edited November -1 in General
WHY SHOULD MODEL S OWNERS SUFFER!

After hearing these horror stories time and time again and in all parts of the country.
Tesla should act on this NOW!

Why Tesla owners should be unconvinced by ICE's drivers for even one minute is beyond me!

An easy fix for now and future stalls should have a gate that can be controled and lifted upon a Model S or X approach to a Super Charger Stall. The technology that Tesla processes, we could control the gate lift with our system in the vehicle (much like a garage opener) or even if we have to leave the vehicle to open the gate, with a Tesla card opener. After all we must be outside the vehicle to plug in the supercharge cord.

This would take a resign of the stalls but it seems this problem is only getting worst and worst and if traffic tickets are not accessibly then another deterrent should be put into place immediately.
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Comments

  • edited November -1
    What do you mean by "Tesla drivers should be unconvinced" LOL!

    Putting a gate at the SC stations would be too expensive.

    The solution is to bring a pad of paper and a pen and leaving a rather stern note on the offending car's windshield saying they are parking illegally and the police are on their way.
    Also, if possible, try to somehow still charge your car by blocking the ICE car access.
    That will teach them!
  • edited November -1
    The gate is a good idea. I would like to see the Supercharger areas fenced and gated. This would stop ICE entirely.
    .
    Security is an issue that is not being addressed; the carjacking and robbery at Barstow demonstrates the need for a secure area.
    ~Larry
  • edited November -1
    Really!

    Tell that one to Model S owners who have tried that! and please be aware that Police are not responding to these situations..... Pulling up to a super charger and having a ICE parked in the stall is problem, I don't think Tesla counted on these situations before building the stalls as they currently sit now...

    and maybe not all stalls have these situations only the problem ones that have been identified especially in CT.

    Beats writing a stern note and think that a ICE who just parked in a stall identified with Tesla Charging would care! and what if the owner arrives and you get into an altercation... Tesla has stated in the past just notify Tesla, however that doesn't seem to be working! .... Gates on stalls is one answer...
  • edited November -1
    I have yet to experience the problems discussed here for the last year visiting over 20 SCs.
  • edited November -1
    Here's a classic example. The business location at Cordes Lakes, AZ told this group to park in these spots. They took 4 spots because one van parked over the line taking an additional spot. He did offer to move, but we were able to park at the end. Had another Tesla shown up, I would have told the drivers that they needed to move now. And there were at least 10 parking spots open opposite of this row. Tesla was already contacted and they said it was up to the proprietor to enforce. We need some laws changed.

    I couldn't figure out how to post the pic except linking, so here goes.
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203604435811829&set=a.3671978558428.2139973.1243802219&type=1
  • edited November -1
    If you can get a ticket (and go to jail) for parking illegal on the street, why not for illegal parking at tesla chargers? Just need to get it into law and enforced.
  • edited November -1
    There is already a law in Washington State but it can't be enforced at superchargers because Tesla decided not to display the required signage. Without that sign, legally superchargers don't qualify as charging stations and the existing law can't be enforced.

    Tesla is making deals with hosts. Part of the deal is ICE cars can park there. When I wrote that Tesla is doing this wrong, fanboys at TMC (the other Tesla forum) were not happy. It was one of the two topics that got me banned. Here is that topic:

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/33051-Teo-Takes-Tesla-To-Task/page8?p=695157&viewfull=1#post695157

    We have lots of fanboys here too. The fanboy mentality is "Tesla is always right." Therefore I wouldn't be surprised if fanboys argued this problem doesn't exist.

    Before you ask Tesla to put gates, it might be a good idea to ask them put those two signs that is shown in that topic so the existing law can be enforced at least in states where they have those laws.

    I also recommend taking pictures of ICED superchargers and sending them to news blogs. If this issue gets some media coverage, Tesla will fix it. That's what happened in the past with many issues.

    The bigger problem here is perception. If a supercharger station is fine 99% of time but fully iced 1% of time, that creates charge anxiety. It means when you travel long distance with your family, you are going to worry that it might be ICED. Another problem is, it creates conflict risks. With all the road rage killings in the US, is it really necessary for Tesla to allow ICE cars park there? It would take only one bad incident to ruin the reputation of superchargers and Tesla.

    When people call Tesla to complain, Tesla says "it's up to the hosts, we can't do anything." However superchargers have Tesla branding on them. Anything bad that happens at superchargers will affect Tesla's reputation.

    I'm not a Tesla owner and I'm not from the US. This problem doesn't affect me the slightest. I did some research on this issue because I was surprised when I realized how bad Tesla manages this issue.
  • edited November -1
    The spaces are not Tesla owned or leased, but shared and allowed by the landowner. Tesla has no authority to tow, block or reduce overall parking availability in most cases.
  • edited November -1
    I love the ideas of the supercharging stations but the history of people would suggest this is but the beginning of these problems...I'm not buying a Tesla with the intent that I'll ever use a supercharging station. I hail Elon as a visionary but if these aren't done on a more massive scale, there's really no point until everyone one else buys in..
  • edited November -1
    I agree that this problem will probably get worsens more and more supercharger locations are open. Tesla has to address the situation by making sure the owner of the location will enforce a "no parking" rule to keep the SC stalls free of parking poachers. If the problem is not addressed, it's just a matter of time before frustration gets the better of somebody and something nasty happens. Nobody wants that. Tesla should put pressure on these locations owners to address the situation asap. In fact it should be part of the agreement to install SC's in an area. Posting ticketing and towing signs might deter some people, but actually doing it will definitely get their attention...
  • edited November -1
    If they can't enforce a no-parking rule, it would be useful to put some other rule in place.

    "Not charging?
    Leave your number.

    If there are no other places to park we understand you may need to park here. Please leave your number on your dash so that a car that needs to charge can contact you and find out when you'll return."

    That message would stop most people.
    (I know, it has issues.... just brainstorming :) )
  • edited November -1
    @ Brian H | March 8, 2015

    <i>The spaces are not Tesla owned or leased, but shared and allowed by the landowner. Tesla has no authority to tow, block or reduce overall parking availability in most cases.

    This is true in many places.
    However, in most places, there is no legal basis preventing Tesla from including restrictions on the use of SC stalls, including the authority to tow violators. Indeed, IMO that's what needs to happen to eliminate ICEing SC stalls as a practical problem.
  • edited November -1
    All Tesla needs to do is to establish SCs <b>only</b> at sites with owners that are willing to impose such restrictions.

    Have you ever heard of BEVs blocking access to gasoline pumps? What do you think would happen if you tried that with a Tesla MS?
  • edited November -1
    Perhaps Tesla needs to review the design of the SC's to mimic that of the gasoline pump. Grega mentions "If there are no other places to park we understand you may need to park here", to me there in lies the problem. The mindset is wrong. People are thinking of these spaces as parking spaces where you can recharge your car while they should be thought as recharging stations just like gas pumps. I would take what Grinning says "Have you ever heard of BEVs blocking access to gasoline pumps?" a bit further. At a rest/refueling area, have you ever seen a car parked in front of a gas pump? Nobody would ever think of doing such a thing, why is it easy for people to do it for EV's charging stalls? Changing the design to recreate the look and feel of a gas station could help people realize that this is not a parking spot...and get them into a different mindset...
  • edited November -1
    Great point, @Boukman.
  • edited November -1
    There is a well known way to handle these issues, but it may not be legal in every locality. With the permission of the landowner if necessary, you post a sign saying "Tesla Charger Parking Only, Tow Away Zone" and include whatever legal niceties are required. Contract with a towing company to enforce it. That costs Tesla nothing. The towing company is paid by the owner who has parked without permission. They have an incentive to enforce the rule.

    The enforcement will be much simpler than it would be at an office or shop where unauthorized vehicles may be towed since it may be difficult to prove the car owner had not visited the shop or office at some point. In the case of a Supercharger the car is either a Tesla or it isn't. Not easy to change that.
  • edited November -1
    <p>Going from "no signage at superchargers" to towing seems extreme. What happened to the steps in between? The first thing Tesla should do is to add these tarmac signs:</p>

    <p><img src="http://s27.postimg.org/i7qa71vkz/image.jpg&quot; /></p>

    <p>The idea is to communicate information with international symbols like the disabled parking symbol:</p>

    <p><img src="http://s16.postimg.org/qsv1wu4cl/handicap_parking.jpg&quot; /></p>

    <p>Whoever is responsible of the superchargers needs to understand that the name "Tesla" doesn't somehow magically transform into "This is an EV charging spot therefore I shouldn't park here" in people's minds. This is how many superchargers look:</p>

    <p>An ICED supercharger: <img src="http://s10.postimg.org/4p1paqwcp/ln_Fm7i9.jpg&quot; /></p>

    <p>This is how some people see them:</p>

    <p>Quote: <i>I was charging on a trip at Vacaville when a lady came up to park at the SC. I went to confront her but nicely. <b>She thought the big cables were a vacuum cleaner.<i></b> <a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/just-confronted-someone-who-iced-tesla-charging-spot-aka-another-ice-thread?page=1#comment-528539">Source</a></p&gt;
  • edited November -1
    I'm going to go ahead and go for the low-hanging fruit here... that vacuum story sucks...
  • edited November -1
  • edited November -1
    I have to say that these threads always make me laugh because rarely do you find anyone who has actually been iced. This thread is much the same in that there is sound and fury signifying nothing.

    Having actually visited more than 60 superchargers and living in the most densely populated supercharging location in Southern California my actual experience may vary with the theoretical experiences both nonowners and actual owners who don't spend much time at a supercharger.

    1. 99.9% of the time there is no ice car parked in a tesla spot.

    2. Most people have never seen a tesla let alone any EV charging so there missteps are usually out of ignorance not malice.

    3. Tesla has an almost sure fire foolproof method for preventing internal combustion engine cars from occupying supercharging spots

    <img src="cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/218486/file-2388227692-jpg/Tesla_Motors_Parking_Lot_Striping_Culver_City/Parking_Lot_striping_Culver_City_Tesla_Motors_(2).jpg?t=1422393894258" width ="600">

    This is the culver city supercharger with signage posted stating that the spots are for EV charging and the parking spaces are painted red with a giant tesla emblem.

    No gates.

    No bollards.

    No knife fights in the parking lot.

    Some signs and buckets of red paint and (imaginary) problem solved.
  • edited November -1
    Yes, painting the stalls is a great idea. An inexpensive solution and should be begun at every site. Just as with handicap, the EV parking needs credibility.
    ~Larry
  • edited November -1
    @ SamO | March 11, 2015

    <i>... these threads always make me laugh because rarely do you find anyone who has actually been iced.

    Sam, what you've experienced is a very lightly used startup SC system. Your experience is NOT what we should expect in 2016 and beyond. By then there will be very many more Teslas on road trips relying on SCs for charging.

    Just one example of recent history of SCs. Last fall Tesla installed an 8-stall SC in Topeka, KS in a place convenient to I-70 travelers and several businesses. My brother-in-law who lives about 3 miles from this SC took quite a few pictures of it during the construction and some after it opened. Of course, it was very lightly used. Why? At that time, traveling east on I-70 the next SC was in Ohio, over 500 miles away. Since then, Tesla has installed SCs near Kansas City, Indianapolis, Dayton, OH, and Columbus, OH. They are in the process of putting SCs in St. Louis and Effingham, IL. When that string of SCs is open for business, I'd expect a lot more Teslas using I-70 on road trips between the eastern and western parts of the U.S. And the use of the Topeka, KS SC will increase quite a bit. If Tesla thought otherwise, they would have built this SC with 4 stalls instead of 8.

    I just got my S85D this week. No way in hell would I take it on a road trip to visit my brother-in-law in Topeka, KS, driving from my home in Fairfax, VA <b> until</b> there is a robust SC string from Ohio to Kansas on I-70. IMO, my 'theoretical analysis' of SC growth and usage is a hell of a lot more reliable than your experience using SCs in 2013 and 2014.

    There is a simple reason that you didn't see me at one of your many SC visits in the past: I didn't yet have an MS then. And I'll venture an outlandish forecast: More than 10,000 new Tesla cars will be sold in the U.S. in 2015; many of them will visit SCs on road trips.
  • edited November -1
    @Grinnin'

    Your fear and anxiety are internally generated and not a product of Tesla's business model.

    You dismiss my experience in the area with the busiest Superchargers, most cars sold and most local drivers out of hand.

    You dismiss Bighorn who has has not had any ICEing problems with over 200 Supercharger visits.

    Is it hypothetically possible Tesla will slow construction of Superchargers below demand: yes.

    Is it likely: NOT EVEN A BIT.

    My experience AND my analysis based upon cars sold, density of sales and density of the network tells me that you need to do a bit more "analysis" and a bit less "handwaving".

    Show your work and I'll consider changing my mind.
  • edited November -1
    Why blame Tesla and waste time complaining about this in a forum?

    Be a good citizen and take it up with your government and get some laws in place. Start a citizen's initiative if your government is slow to act.

    All they have to do is copy the laws that are in place in Washington State. Our State laws include how the property owner must properly paint the charging station stalls. (Red would not be appropriate.) Fines have been established. Officers will ticket.
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