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Before I Call Service...

frankie.fingersfrankie.fingers
edited December 2016 in Model S
I've had my MS for just over 6 months now, so I haven't been through cold weather with it. I know that you lose some range in colder weather. Until about a month ago, the trip readouts in my car had been very accurate. I'd start out with 200 miles in the morning, would drive 50 miles that day, and the remaining range would show 150 miles (give or take a couple of miles). During the time I've had the car, I've averaged 285 Wh/mi. Recently, as the weather has gotten colder, much different story. For example, yesterday, I started out with 185 miles, and drove 85 miles. My remaining range when I got home was 90 miles. I've also noticed that I'll lose about 5 miles of range during the day (10-12 hours) if the car just sits in the lot all day. BTW - all of the mileage numbers are on the same rated miles basis.

Normal, or not so much??
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Comments

  • TeslaTap.comTeslaTap.com
    edited November -1
    Sounds very normal. As it gets colder, you're likely to turn on the heat, which consumes quite a bit of power. Figure about 10-20% range loss as it gets cold. On small EVs like the leaf, range can be cut in half, due to the small battery and the much large effect heating has on limited range EVs.
  • TropopauseTropopause
    edited November -1
    Normal. Actually you are doing better than the average Tesla owners who report their efficiency results here.

    Getting rated range is not easy. Getting close to rated range in the winter is amazing!

    Call the SvC if you like. Winter temps can easily sap an additional 30% from your range.
  • burdoggburdogg
    edited December 2016
    Very normal - right now with teh huge drop in temps (at 10 degrees right now, high will be 26) I am getting terrible range - I don't remember it being this bad last year, oh well. i charged yesterday in the AM - at lunch, car was at 209. between lunch yesterday and this AM at 7:30 when i plugged in, I traveled a total of 50 miles, my range was at 113 - I lost almost 50 miles to....???? Just crazy right now. :)
  • KidDocKidDoc
    edited November -1
    You mentioned 285 wh/m in the past, what has it been lately? I'm betting 335-345. That would explain the lost range and likely due to cabin & battery heating.
  • murphyS90DmurphyS90D
    edited November -1
    The heater puts a big load on the battery. When SvC needs to discharge a battery to service it they use the heater to discharge the battery. Try wearing a warm coat and just use the seat heater and gloves if you don't have the heated steering wheel.
  • TropopauseTropopause
    edited November -1
    Electric heaters use resistance to heat and consume a lot of energy.

    Btw- there are 2 heaters on your car- one for you and one for the battery; the latter you can not control. The battery will stay warm regardless of whether you choose to do the same or not.
  • Silver2KSilver2K
    edited December 2016
    Very normal. You must drive like an old man! I lose a minimum of 20 % in the winder. The numbers you posted are better than my summer numbers :)
  • Run4WafflesRun4Waffles
    edited November -1
    I would say normal @frankie.fingers.

    Yesterday, for example, the temp here was about 32 degrees. I moved it after charging to 244 miles at work. At the end of the day it was at 239. When I got home after driving 50 miles, I had used 68 miles. I hade the heater and seat warmer on. My consumption was between 345-365 Wh/ml. I'm generally about 300 or a bit less.

    I've had it get as bad as maybe 30% last winter.
  • Mathew98Mathew98
    edited December 2016
    Easy remedy Mr. Fingers.

    Butt warmers. Just keep those fingers clean...
  • RandallKeithRandallKeith
    edited November -1
    I have a 16 mile commute. Car sits in a heated garage at night 60°F. 18°F this morning preheat uses 5 miles. Car sits in parking lot for 11 hours 23°. Preheat for 30 minutes uses another 10 miles. I use 30 miles while driving. That's 45 miles to go 16.
  • PCMcPCMc
    edited November -1
    @frankie.fingers - we're about the same point in length of ownership, so I'm also experiencing my first cold season.

    During Aug-Sept I could go as low as 245 Wh/mi average for a week with local city driving. At that level, I'd actually beat the rated mile numbers (drive 50 miles, rated miles displayed only go down 45). For the same local to/from work commute usage pattern today, in ambient temps of about 29-30F, I was at 415 Wh/mi average. That combined with using preheat a couple times during the day, and I've used about 22 rated miles while only driving 9.3 actual miles per the trip meter.
  • SbMDSbMD
    edited November -1
    Another vote for normal. Good points above!
  • ST70ST70
    edited December 2016
    more than normal
  • jordanrichard_629778jordanrichard_629778
    edited December 2016
    You can expect upwards of 30% range reduction in the dead of winter. To drive to the mall in the summer, takes me 1.8 kwh. Lately with the temps in the mid 30's, it now takes 2.2 kwh.
  • TeslaTap.comTeslaTap.com
    edited November -1
    @frankie - One reason for a lot of different range reductions is your definition of cold. You didn't say where you are located.

    Here in Northern California, most cold mornings are in the 50's and by noon it gets into the 60's. Rarely below 40 degrees - so we see about a 10% drop in range. Those that like the cooler climates, are going to get a larger hit on range as they use more heat.
  • BL-NJBL-NJ
    edited December 2016
    @Tropopause
    Regarding the heater for the battery, in fact you can control it. Turning range mode ON will cause the battery heater to remain OFF. Range mode does not have much information given about it, just that heating and cooling will be less effective to increase range. However range mode also causes the battery heater to stay off.

    With range mode OFF (battery heater ON), you can go from a fully cold battery with no regen available, to a warm battery with full regen available, in 10-15 minutes. With range mode ON (battery heater OFF), it will take over an hour to achieve a warm battery, with the battery warming solely from providing power to move the vehicle.

    I know this from my own testing over the last two winters. My commute is about 10 minutes and if I do no cabin pre-conditioning at work, in the winter my battery will be completely cold when I start my trip home. With range mode OFF and battery heating ON, my battery is warmed up just in time to park at my house. I thought that was a waste of energy, to have a warm battery only to proceed to park the car. So the following winter I turned range mode ON. My commute would begin with a fully cold battery, and by the time I got home, it would still be close to the same cold temperature as when I started. Having the battery heater off saves a ton of energy as seen in my electric bill.
  • TropopauseTropopause
    edited December 2016
    BL-NJ,

    Thanks for the information. I recently read a thread at TMC discussing what you mentioned about Range Mode and battery heating/cooling.

    I saw evidence of how Range Mode affects the cooling of the battery but I didn't see any evidence or measurements of Range Mode keeping the battery heater off in cold temps. One owner was using Visible Tesla to take readings of his battery coolant temps but it was during mild to warm weather and thus showed how battery cooling was affected.

    I was hoping to see similar measurements taken during cold temps to confirm that the battery stays relatively cold with Range Mode off. Your observations would confirm this. However, did you use a third party app to confirm cold coolant temps stay relatively cold, i.e.- no battery heater, just using drive unit residual heating?

    I would think snow-belt owners would not see upwards of 30% energy consumption increases if the battery heater was always off in Range Mode but nobody seems to be dispelling the fact that our Tesla's use a lot more energy in the cold.

    Maybe Range Mode ON decreases the threshold for active heating. However, if Range Mode keeps the battery heater off, then a driver could merely keep the cabin heater off as well and achieve similar Wh/mi year-round. But nobody seems to be reporting this.
  • Silver2KSilver2K
    edited November -1
    I don't believe the heater to the battery can ever be turned off. The battery should not get below -16 degrees (if I remember correctly) and when It approached those temps the heater kicks in no what what mode have it on. We hit those Temps in upstate NY Daily in Feb and March and the car never had an issue. I believe the warrantee will void if the battery sits in those Temps for long period of time
  • Silver2KSilver2K
    edited November -1
    What/matter

    Sorry.. phone again!!
  • ELECTRICFANELECTRICFAN
    edited December 2016
    You are good. I drive a Volt half the time and right now in Houston its 40 deg F, and my drive to work is too much for the battery - it runs the engine for the last 5 miles. When the temp is 60 deg F or better I get to work with 5 or more miles left on the battery. So low outside temps really kill your battery range.
  • Pack MulePack Mule
    edited December 2016
    I've observed the same thing that @BL-NJ said about range mode affecting the battery heating, only I've assumed that it turned it down not off (due to what @SilverP85Plus is alluding to regarding minimum heating necessary to maintain some threshold temp). I didn't use any third party application to confirm effect on battery temperature, but I definitely could see changes in the energy display on the dash as I toggled the range mode on and off (while stopped and the cabin heater off). The power pulled by the battery heater was pretty minimal, maybe 1 or 2kW. I was playing with these settings because I had turned Range mode on a couple months back and was getting an annoyingly slow recovery of regen braking power once temperatures starting dipping down below 40 in the last couple weeks. I should also add, I could easily be wrong on the effects of range mode on battery heating, because I couldn't find any documentation of such an effect, just my own (and now @BL-NJ) observations.
  • Silver2KSilver2K
    edited November -1
    I've never measured what MS pulls, but the volt pulled an average of 2kWh daily in the winter to keep the battery warm
  • Pack MulePack Mule
    edited November -1
    Last winter (in MN) I was losing 3-5 rated miles (so 1-1.5 kWh) of energy during my 8-9 hours workday do to my car being parked outside in a cold surface lot. The higher consumption only seems to be on days when temps were hovering around 0 F.
  • Silver2KSilver2K
    edited December 2016
    So you were having a heatwave :)
  • Pack MulePack Mule
    edited December 2016
    Also, in regards to energy consumption increasing dramatically when the temperature drops, remember that the heater is drawing power at a (relatively) constant rate,up to 6kW. Unlike the drive motor where power is variable. This seems like a no brainer, but if you are driving around stuck in traffic and it's REALLY cold out you will start to see some scary energy consumption numbers. This may be shocking for new owners, or owners new to a cold climate. I was looking back at some of my numbers (I used to track them, don't ask) from last winter, and some of my evening commutes in traffic would have consumption rates as high as 800 Wh/mi when running the heater and 400 or less if not. It's just something to keep in mind.

    There's a link in the OMC to a good thread from last fall about cold weather effects on energy consumption.
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