Model S

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FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap

First, let me start of by saying, I work in technology. As a Cloud Architect, I am heavily involved and very familiar with rapid software development, software development practices etc. I only say this to frame that I would say I am more tolerant than most with this AP2 process. One of the reasons I went with Tesla (first time owner, Dec/2016) was AP2. I fully knew AP2 was not complete, I knew there would be some issues, especially with Tesla ditching the Mobile Eye system and developing their own. I knew it would not be as smooth as the Sales Rep advised me it would be. I was actually excited to be a part of the process. Seeing the car grow and mature into an "autonomous" vehicle, really the first of it's kind, was very exciting prospect. And I knew buying it, that despite what Elon says, the car will never be Level 5 autonomous. I am, or at least was, expecting between level 3-4 autonomy, the car could take drive almost all freeways, exit, drive streets, stop signs etc. I would have to take over in parking lots, etc...Now, i don't even see that happening, at least not any time soon. I fully regret buying FSD. I think AP2 is/will be a worthy investment, they will eventually get there, but i just don't see anything beyond a fully functional and mostly reliable AP2. I just don't understand where the disconnect is between what they showed us in the FSD videos and what we have now. Totally understand that is internal code they are using, but they were showing street driving at 35 mph and it's like not even the basic code logic is being used in what we have. Autosteer AP code is not totally unqiue compared to FSD code. Yes the FSD code will take into account MANY more things, but the base of the code should be the same. We have nothing even close to what they have shown based on my experience below.

Was very excited today to get Firmware (17.5.36).... until I tested it.

imagine you go to the bar, you had 6 double shots, and threw back 5 or 6 beers. Then you decide to be an idiot and drive. That's how the car drives with "Local road driving" AP2. It's basically not usable.

Observations

1. Going through an intersection.. Yeah.. don't do that... Car stars to veer right heavily trying to find a right lane marker

2. Streets with right exit lanes...Yeah... don't do that... It will start to take that right turn lane then suddenly jerk back over into the lane you were in.

3. Road with a smooth 90 turn ahead? Yeah... don't do that... car won't decelerate or even take the turn... it sure does try though.

4. Next to a marked bike lane? Yeah... don't do that... seems to swerve into them.

5. General lane keeps overall just unpredictable


I'd be fine if the update read this way (which it should)

"Autosteer while on Local Roads, only use in this condition:

1. You are in the center lane. Left lanes with left turn lanes and right lanes with right turn lanes do not work.
2. The road has no major curves or turns

Generally Autosteer will only work going straight in a clearly marked center lane."

Something to that effect.

I hope Elon proves me wrong. He has in the past. I just don't see it.
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Comments

  • edited February 2017
    Well, that doesn't sound good. I was excited to get the update until now...
  • edited February 2017
    Well on a positive note, as your teach it with your corrective actions, it will learn and get better =).
  • edited February 2017
    Continued patience :) I am not trying to be a pom pom cheerer here, but when it comes to this, AP 1.0 took 1 year before they even activated it - they are trying to speed up the process to appease us the end buyers who were furious we didn't have it the minute the change over happened. I am not concerned about anything you mentioned yet - now 3 months from now if it is still as your notes, then we can start panicking on FSD. Right now - way too early
  • edited November -1
    I too work in technology and have the same excitement about being part of the process as my soon-to-be-delivered Tesla S 90D gradually becomes smarter. I too am concerned that Elon might have to have another sensor design refresh before he can truly reach Level 5 autonomy, but I don't want to miss out on the journey.

    I think you're having premature regrets, Chris. Remember the FSD software has an AI component that they are training based on telemetry data continuously being collected across the entire Tesla fleet of operational vehicles. Developing, validating, and perfecting near perfect recognition of every layout, marking, environment, situation, and environmental conditions is a Herculean undertaking and will take time. I expect slow progress for a while, followed by an accelerating rate of progress. I don't think Elon's timeline is realistic. Given the challenges, I'll be happy with Tesla's progress even if it takes two more years to just reach Level 4. I have faith we'll eventually get to Level 5 - more faith than in any of the other car companies now scrambling to get there first.

    Also remember that Tesla has changed out the leadership of the software team. A quality move, but any such move is going to slow progress a bit at first, with the promise of accelerated progress once the influence of new leadership takes hold.
  • edited November -1
    Am I missing something or do you guys know that your car still does not have FSD function. You may have got an update that allows to use it on local road but that is pretty much on par with AP1 if not worst at this time. It will take a while for all the capabilities of your car to be unlocked pending future updates so at this point judging what AP2 can or can not do is premature.
  • edited November -1
    @dsopocy Great points. I too am excited to get the updates and find new features. Not many see the overall picture. I mean this is an amazing feat and I am more than grateful to be a part of it. I love that it already is learning quickly and that information is shared by all of us. Awesome.
  • edited November -1
    @Chris I suggest you also send this detailed post to the autopilot email address (Anyone have it??) or the [email protected] This is the stuff they'd love to hear and have the feedback on to make the system better !!!
  • edited February 2017
    I was excited. I appreciate the warnings and feedback. I'm going to wait on this and hopefully we get another update soon.
  • bpbp
    edited November -1
    AP 1.0 hardware seems to be designed to work best in the relatively simple environment of on-ramp to off-ramp driving on limited access highways. It doesn't have the sensors or processing power to do much more than that, and enabling AP 1.0 for other driving scenarios will always require considerable attention to the drivers, to overcome limitations in object perception by the hardware or processing power.

    It seems likely this release is primarily a removal of the geoblocking preventing AP 2.0 from operating on local roads. The software is likely still basically AP 1.0 software, with changes to use the new AP 2.0 sensors - and the software problem doesn't (yet) take advantage of the additional sensor data or processing power. And, if that's the case, drivers should carefully monitor autosteer, since the software likely won't (yet) handle many conditions.

    We should expect it will take time for Tesla to fully adapt the software to use the new sensors, especially the full sensors suite enabled with the FSD option has been activated - and better handle the more complex driving conditions on divided highways or local roads.

    It's too early to be able to use this release as an indication as to whether or not Tesla can achieve their goals for EAP and FSD.
  • edited November -1
    I don't understand this post. Autosteer is only supposed to be used on a divided highway with clearly marked lanes. I didn't read about a new firmware that talks about local road driving? Have I missed something?
  • edited February 2017
    yes @cohen it came out today for AP2 cars, Local roadways @ 35mph +/- 5 mph - is now enabled for autosteer.
  • edited February 2017
    Same here, using enhanced auto pilot off the highway is risky business and has been since AP one. I would never trust either off highway. And passing through intersections with auto pilot… Never designed to do that… Even with enhanced auto pilot.
  • edited February 2017
    Sorry Babaron - I will disagree - I use my AP 1.0 car ALL the time on 2 lane highway in the country and it works flawlessly. Of course I still have to pay attention and have a hand on the wheel, but to sound like it is risky business is not true at all. I guess to each is their own, but just wanted to put it out there from another perspective - AP 1.0 works great and have had no problems on my 2 lane undivided highway through mountains, curves and all. Thanks you :) (Talking 90 miles trips here too mind you and don't have to do a thing other than rest my hand on the wheel for just in case, which has not happened)
  • edited November -1
    @Bigdog Thanks

    I'll just add that people need more patience here. Let's all be realistic. I'm hoping that AP2 will get on par with AP1 by this summer. There's just no way that FSD will be readily available for anyone by six months (isn't that what Elon mentioned). I just don't see it. I don't see FSD where I live (Canada) for 6 years never mind 6 months. We just had a major snow storm, there's no way an autonomous car would be able to drive in that.
  • edited February 2017
    Burdogg, I am guessing your roads and my roads are very different. My AP one has acted quite erratically several times when I try to use it off highway early on. Had I not been attentive, it definitely would've caused an accident on those occasions. I imagine it would do much better on long 2 Lane Highway's. I don't have too many of those here. It's either busy residential or highway.
  • OP: yes I think you'll be right - he'll prove you wrong - again.
  • edited November -1
    Must be Babaron - mine are well marked highways :) I live in a small town and to get to the town north of me is a 50 mile or so drive on a two lane undivided highway. It is well marked so I wonder if that is the difference. I have used it even beyond that on a very narrow road for another 100 miles and still no problems. Again, I believe even though the lanes are very narrow, they are well marked. I use it through the main town road at 25 mph and it does fine there too - I don't try it in town much besides that. Would really be interesting to compare our cars on the same roads - they should do the same, but I have heard some complain about their AP and others like me have had no problems. I have often wondered is there sensor differences (ie camera angles etc... that are off slightly) or is it just the lane markings on the different roads we are using it on :)
  • edited February 2017
    @Chris.Skaling - please immediately stop using AP2 and re-read what it should do before you hurt yourself or others. It is not FSD and is not even expected for another year, pending all sorts of regulatory approvals. The current design is going towards EAP - which does not detect intersections, bike lanes, right turns or other events it was never designed for. YOU are responsible for handling these cases. Perhaps it's smarter to think of it as lane holding. It will do more over time, but expecting it to stop at intersections, stop lights, etc. is not in the current cards. Those are FSD features yet to be rolled out, perhaps next year.

    No need to send info to Tesla, as none of these cases are supported. Please be a lot more careful and understand the fact you paid in advance for FSD does not mean FSD is close to being available. You got a discount for purchasing this future feature. As to how well FSD works, no one other than Tesla really knows yet.
  • edited November -1
    I have discovered that my sensor suite is only two forward looking cameras. I now find out that there are cars with a sensor suite of 8 cameras, 12 ultrasonics and 1 radar. I will never be able to drive again with just 2 cameras. I am going to my optometrist to see if my two cameras can be upgraded so I can get to level 5.
  • JADJAD
    edited November -1
    johndoeeyed, you should have 2 sonic sensors as well. If not, have that checked :)
  • edited February 2017
    the basic code logic is there, just not released to the cars yet. it will happen gradually , one little step at the time.
  • edited February 2017
    Model S 90 D arrived dec 2016. The demo car we drove before ordering had fully functional AP 1 and was light years ahead of what was delivered to us with this new and improved car. I feel like some degree of sales fraud was at work as we were never told it would not be a functional car or at least as functional as the test car we drove with AP 1. In fact we were told the opposite. The new car would be far more advanced. It's analogous to buying an iPhone for 100k and learning you can't text or email yet but that software update is coming soon. Point it you don't sell the phone until its ready. Our car didn't even have adaptability cruise control for 3 months!! No blind spot detection still. For 100k?? Shouldn't have been released until it was ready. Should have been disclosed before sale.
  • edited November -1
    Wait a minute, you expect Autopilot to take turns and you use it in intersections? I don't think you are using it properly... maybe RTFM?
  • edited November -1
    They aren't programming the car to drive. They are programming the car to learn how to drive. AP2 is more than just more sensors and a faster computer. It is a fundamentally different approach. Because the car is learning how to drive, sloppy driving today doesn't mean that there is a fundamental problem, and I could envision a tipping point where the car suddenly gets a lot better.

    I could be wrong, but now is not the time to despair.
  • edited February 2017
    AP 1.0 had many of the same issues (right exit, getting lost in intersections,...) when it first came out. A year and a half later, I use it on side roads and interstates. 25 mile one-way commute (10 mi. side road and 15 interstate)...And I would guess that I only drive 3 or 4 miles of it (turns to new roads, entrance on highway...)
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