120-140KWh Battery Pack!

120-140KWh Battery Pack!

If Tesla comes up with 120KWh to 140KWh battery pack in 5 to 6 years, will u be willing to pay for a swap?? If so, up to how much, and what will be the fair way to that......calculate based on mileage on car or #of full discharges of current pack??

Brian H | 10 July, 2013

Your standards for "demonstrated" evidently do not include any understanding of physics or thermodynamics.

July10Models | 10 July, 2013

@Brian H
Your patience amazes me.
@Deezomaxima Call your school, return your degree and demand a refund.

Byong | 10 July, 2013

@Deezo: Brian is correct in the context of an electric car and the conservation of energy, physics, etc...

You were implying that there would be a benefit to add additional drag to the axel/wheels of the car to drive a generator. I don't think Brian was saying that you couldn't generate electricity this way, he was just saying that it would not be efficient use of the momentum of the car as it would use more electricity to get that momentum in the first place. That is what the regenerative braking does, use the motors to generate electricity while slowing down the car.

now, if you said, put a set of bicycle peddals in the passenger seat and have the passenger peddal a generator to add energy to the system.. that's perfectly possible... I just wouldn't want to be that passenger... :) nor the driver after an hour or so of peddeling :)

erici | 10 July, 2013

You cannot upgrade to a larger battery pack. Says the Tesla employee.

Kleist | 10 July, 2013

erici - irrelevant. Yes, todays TM position is they will not sell you an upgrade from a 60 kWh to a 85 kWh battery. Elon stated many times technically it is possible because they moved part of battery management into the main pack itself ( technically it is not possible on the roadster). When there is a larger battery for the MS TM may change it's position and offer an upgrade path - but that is pure speculation. If there a larger battery for the MS in the future and no upgrade path offered then I would just switch to a new car... that easy.

Brian H | 11 July, 2013

The original purpose of the swap stations, AFAIK, was to permit temporary use of a higher capacity battery, not just do a fast "recharge". Don't know if that's off the table.

dirkhh | 11 July, 2013

@Kleist Elon is a rather savvy business man. So what's the better deal for Tesla: Selling their existing customer base a battery upgrade or getting their existing customer base to buy new cars, bringimg the cheaper used cars into the market and creating a larger potential future customer base by exposing more people to the Tesla driving experience?

Much as it pains me to say so, my guess is that they'd rather screw the early adopters and make us buy a new car. Compare what Apple did with their early adopters. Yes, the price tag is very different, but the economics are similar.

And reading between the lines of what many posters state here in their posts (about their airplanes, their Bentleys, etc) and given how many people here appear to be driving fully loaded P85+... disposable income to buy a new car in a few years doesn't appear to be a big issue.

And then there are the rest of us who bought their last car more than ten years ago and still can't believe they spent this much money on a bare basics TMS60... who will likely be stuck with a 60kWh battery for the next decade :-)

jandkw | 11 July, 2013

I am driving the S60 and plan to keep my MS for 10+ years and do not see any reason my MS cannot last that long. By 2020, I expect a lot of development on new battery technology like lithium air (or other sold state type battery) will become fruition. This new kind of battery will dramatically increase the cell density and I intend to upgrade the battery so the 500+ range is possible. This is assuming TM will adopt the technology along with modifying the firmware to accommodate the new tech. Yes, TM will have to test, change the firmware and all to support the new tech. but I have a fair confidence to see they will do that because by 2020, we are not just talking about MS, but Gen III and even supplying to other car manufacturers. There is going to be a huge market for upgrade. Needless to say, the competition will be there using this tech, so I expect TM will endorse it.

justineet | 11 July, 2013

@jamestily@comc...The decline of lithium battery cost is significant. In the last two years alone, since the 2011 battery technology currently in Model S, the cost of Lituim cells have gone down by about 20%. The only point people can really make is this type of improvement in battery performance and cost will not continue in the future. It's true at some point the rate of improvment will slow down significantly. But the consensus among experts right now is the improvement will keep going on for a while at similar rate.

lammersc | 12 July, 2013

@Byong: Loved your comments. I especially like the "Bicycle Pedals" in the Passenger seat. This might be the new version of "Splitting the cost of Fuel" for the trip. By the way, here is an interesting article concerning the development of new Battery Technology if anyone is interested. It sounds like it may still be a few years out before we would see this technology though.