Always so much 60 vs. 85 talk what about 60 vs. Leaf!

Always so much 60 vs. 85 talk what about 60 vs. Leaf!

A Leaf is from $32 to $40k in Ontario. A Tesla MS60 is $80k.

Tesla gorgeous Leaf butt ugly.
Tesla 302hp Leaf 107hp
Tesla 370km Leaf 120km
Tesla 5 Leaf 4 (sort of)
What about family safety?
Use really what can you do with 120k max range you just get going and you need a charge!

Now tell me all what we get going from a $40k Leaf for $40k more with a MS60?

I think it is a lot! Do I get more for the $40k additional than we get going up the Tesla scale?

jajabor | 30 April, 2014

I don't think there is any other EV on this planet that compares to Tesla, whether it's an 85 or 60.

plaeuschler | 30 April, 2014

Well I don't think there is any other car (EV, ICE, PHEV, ... whatever) on the planet that can offer what a Tesla does. That's why I ordered an S85.

carlk | 30 April, 2014

You meant to ask if people who bought 60kWh regret that they did not buy the Leaf? I kind of doubt it. ;-)

SamO | 30 April, 2014


Great point. I feel the same way about the i3 and the Mercedes B class. Only the price difference shrinks to $20k difference. Having a long-range EV is killer. Short range stinks.

crmohler | 30 April, 2014

In the U.S. the Leaf has been offered on a $199/month lease. I'm actually considering getting one in a few years for my daughter when she begins driving. I'll still have to research safety ratings, etc, and I hope that the range is a bit better by then, as she travels about 25 miles each way to her gym and add a trip to school and it's close to expected range.

I would never consider getting her an MS60. Too nice of a car (and too much $) for a new driver!

Chuck Lusin | 30 April, 2014

You are getting triple the range and triple the horse power for only double the price!

Not to mention it is not butt ugly!

RedShift | 30 April, 2014

Leaves are for getting carpool lane access (in California, at least). Tesla is for that and so much more: range, driving pleasure, capacity, and the ability to look down upon anyone else with righteous condescension :-)

Just kidding about the last part.

AmpedRealtor | 30 April, 2014

Too bad Tesla canceled the 40 kWh model, then we would have an even better comparison with a Model S that costs only $50k!

Mathew98 | 30 April, 2014

If the S40 were back in the line up, the B class/i3/Volt wouldn't stand a chance in competing.

Of course the margin is too slim / negative for TM to resurrect the S40.

AmpedRealtor | 30 April, 2014

@ Mathew98,

Actually, how funny would it be for Elon to bring back the S40 and then issue a press release saying "Even our previously discontinued EVs are better than anything the competition is doing, so we are bringing them back!"

NKYTA | 30 April, 2014

+1 AR :-)

carlk | 30 April, 2014

@RedShift "Leaves are for getting carpool lane access "

Even more so are the plug-in Prius that got about only 10 miles BEV range. Majority of these Prius with green sticker you see in the HOV lanes are actually burning fossil fuel and emitting poisonous gases. Toyota has lost the remaining little respect I had for them for their original Prius effort.

renwo S alset | 30 April, 2014

My 60 far exceeds my range needs, I would get my wife a 40 in a heartbeat. | 30 April, 2014

The MS60/85 is likely the safest car you can buy - by a significant margin. Just a few of the other pluses to consider over a Leaf:

- 17 Inch Infotainment screen!
- Huge cargo area, larger than many SUVs!
- Feels and looks luxurious!
- Continuous software upgrades with new features!
- Extending door handles!
- No scammy dealer involvement in purchase!

Of course you get the Tesla grin - priceless!

Chuck Lusin | 30 April, 2014

Some 40 Love! = Bigger Tesla grin!

Rocky_H | 30 April, 2014

Most people I know buy $30K cars, not $70K or $80K, so I do recommend Leafs if they're a two vehicle family anyway. At that price point, it actually does save a lot of money in long term operating cost.

JAD | 30 April, 2014

My neighbor has a Volt he likes, for 30 miles, until the rough gas engine kicks in and the entire car shakes and makes bad noises which he and his wife hate. I am working on getting them to upgrade to the MS ;) Perfect for his 70 miles each way commute.

drbchy | 30 April, 2014

Watch this video and you'll not buy a Leaf.

Leaf does not have battery temperature control and they lose range much, much faster than the Tesla.

stevenmaifert | 30 April, 2014

Do we really have to do this? They are two different cars for two different segments of the EV marketplace. At more than twice the price, one would expect Model S to have better styling, performance, range and gee whiz electronics than a Leaf. Do we compare a Sentra to a Mercedes and then trash the Sentra for not measuring up? I own a Model S and a Leaf. Here's a few more comparisons:
1) The Leaf came with charge timers that will start and stop a session. It took Tesla about a year to get around to that, and all it does is start the session.
2) The Leaf has climate control timers that can be set in the car or by remote smartphone app.
3) The Leaf has a heated steering wheel.
4) The Leaf has heated rear seats controlled by the rear seat passengers.
5) The Leaf has a navigation system that will give you a choice of up to three navigation routes when available, route you around traffic, and avoid toll roads/bridges if you tell it to.
6) The Leaf navigation map displays all public access L2/L3 chargers, not just Superchargers and places we've charged before.
7) The Leaf has guidelines on the back-up camera display.
8) The Leaf has a CD/MP3 disc player in addition to an analog plug and USB digital audio input.
9) The Leaf's AM/FM/XM radio has twice as many station presets as a Model S.
10) The Leaf has direct connect Apple iDevice integration support.
11) The Leaf came with ergonomically useful cup and bottle holders.
12) I've never had to reboot my Leaf. It all works all the time. Yes, I have to take it to the dealer for software updates, but they verify everything is working before returning the car. With Tesla, it's plug and pray.
13) AFAIK, a Leaf battery has never caught fire!

renwo S alset | 30 April, 2014

@stevenmaifert. Wrong forum. | 30 April, 2014

@stevenmaifert - I've no problem with the Leaf. Clearly better (in my mind) than an ICE car. Glad you can show some counterpoints too, but you're on target that it's really not an appropriate comparison - completely different segments.

The Leaf clearly benefits from Nissan's ability to drop in features from other car lines.

Rocky_H | 30 April, 2014

No, it's not the wrong forum. @stevenmaifert is right in pointing out that it depends on what you're focusing on. For the range, drivetrain, and driving dynamics, the Tesla blows it away, but for interior convenience and usefulness features, the Leaf seems to have a lot of things done better. No AUX input plug was surprising to me, too.

Plugged In | 30 April, 2014

I cannot make fun of the Leaf. I'd take it over so many other cars, and I appreciate the effort that Nissan has put into it. Maybe they'll get better with it: They have a good example to follow. Maybe some day other companies will actually bother to build an electric car that everyone can buy that can have a real range capability without a gas engine. I'd like to see that.

The Leaf just doesn't quite cut it yet.

lazyav8tr | 30 April, 2014

I have both and I actually prefer the Leaf for city driving. It's smaller size and more useful backup camera with guidance lines are a huge advantage in high density environments. It really IS a 5 passenger car, unlike the Volt. I love the heated stearing wheel! The lack of TMS is actually an advantage in saving energy on short trips. The battery decay rate seems to be as good as the Tesla in our cooler Canadian climate.
The Tesla has it beat on looks, performance and range, but the Leaf is very competitive. I'd definitely save the $10-15K and buy one over an i3 or a B-Class

Volleyguy | 30 April, 2014

I think this is good! What do we get for the $40k more on the Tesla is valid like going from a MS60 to P85+.

It is good to hear from owners of both that that Leaf does do some things better. I am not sure why I want to own a MS so much more.

NKYTA | 30 April, 2014

I just lined up my neighbor with my NEMA 14-50 electrician for his Ford Focus Electric. He doesn't road trip often and drives sub 70 miles a day, so it looks like it will work for him as long as he can charge fully overnight with > 3mph range gained.

akikiki | 30 April, 2014

AR +1 on the S40
Folks, never say never. Nothing stopping TM from offering the S40 again. Nothing to lose and all to gain. If they get caught up on reservations, who know (except the boss himself), he might just bring it back to compete head-to-head to the MB B Class.

Brian H | 1 May, 2014

"in a few years" used 60s will be on the market, and maybe the ME -- so the comparisons will expand.

Volleyguy | 1 May, 2014

I do not mean to sound mean but not one of those 13 things save the battery catching on fire means a lot to me.
11 and 12 mean something but all put together 20 miles or just range would mean more to me.

dilbert | 1 May, 2014

I got on the list early and got one of the first few thousand Leafs. I leased it, thinking in 3 years they'd have something with more range. I've told people since I got my Leaf, I thought success for the BEV in LA would be the ability to drive to Las Vegas.

So, I'm happily driving my S85, and returning my Leaf this weekend. It has about a 50 mile range now.

Range anxiety gone. Replaced with grin.

Plugged In | 1 May, 2014

Again, I like the Leaf conceptually. But for all the things the Leaf means to the world of economical transportation, its inability to allow the owner to go from one city to the next (unless you're talking Dallas to Ft. Worth or Minneapolis to St. Paul)in a feasible manner is just not good enough.

Other companies think that throwing a gas engine in there with an electric motor solves that problem.

One company has a different answer.

Volleyguy | 1 May, 2014

You gotta love their answer! Making it the biggest car since the Model T.

Sniper | 1 May, 2014

Here is a different way to illustrate the difference. Friends of ours have a Leaf. They want to attend a EV rally / party with us on the other side of the Cascade's but said it won't work as they can't fit two adults, two kids and still fit their camping gear in it.
They are going to go, we can fit their camping gear in our frunk.

Brian H | 1 May, 2014

How about the Leaf roof rack?

theapple | 2 May, 2014

Wow, this thread is full of people who seem to have forgotten that the extra $40k for a Tesla is wholly unaffordable for at least 75% of the population, and twice what most people are able/willing to spend on an entire car. I say kudos to Nissan for being a very active part of the EV revolution, and kudos to everyone who drives a Leaf!

And yes, it's a shame that there is no real middle ground; BMW and Mercedes would have done better to pour the extra cost of their offerings into adding usable space and range instead of making a Leaf with luxury trim and gadgets.

Rocky_H | 2 May, 2014

Thank you, theapple. Discussing here is cool regarding the car, but I do find that many of the Tesla owners live and work among higher income people, and they just aren't around people for whom a new car is a stretch, and if that, it's 20-30K.

Kosta | 3 May, 2014

The Model S is a great car. You cannot compare any Model S with a Leaf. Period. That said keep in mind that as great as it may be it is not perfect. For one thing the interior; especially for a vehicle costing more than $100,000. I personally would like to see an increase in range which would be an easy thing to do by adding a separate battery in the floor of the frunk that weighs approximately 100lbs. This would more than likely increase range by 10-15% and in addition give the vehicle a perfect 50-50 weight distribution that would also benefit it in handling. There would be no problems with the battery swapping program as well. I hope someone is reading and listening at Tesla.

Volleyguy | 3 May, 2014

The comparison was on a loaded Leaf at $40k (Can) and a bare bones Tesla MS60 at $80k $ Can. (not the much talked about $100k)

What do you get from loaded leaf to base Tesla.

Some say a Tesla is not affordable fair enough. I can not afford a Leaf. 120km range toy. A family for sure needs another vehicle.

There is "real" use going from 120km range to 370km of the Tesla.

bigd | 3 May, 2014

"Some say a Tesla is not affordable fair enough. I can not afford a Leaf. 120km range toy. A family for sure needs another vehicle." Lots cannot afford a $80000 Tesla 370km range toy either.

TRex | 3 May, 2014

Driving our Model S since last august made clear that electric driving rocks!
So we decided to get rid of our 3 ICE cars and replace them with another EV.
For city (and around) driving we bought a Leaf Tekna. Living near Zurich (Switzerland) shows you the benefits of parking a smaller car! And guess what: the Leaf has a feature that many Model S drivers would love!
Additionally to the guidelines in the back camera they are also shown for the FRONT camera, AND combined with the two cameras in the side mirrors the Leaf shows in a separate part of the monitor a Birdseye view of the car. Makes parking this car so easy!
If only our loved Model S had this feature! Imagine parking with Birdseye view on the screen of a Model S!

For us, having both cars (and no more ICE) makes perfect sense.

Andrew_OH_S60andS70D | 3 May, 2014

We took delivery of our Model S in March of 2013. At the time, my wife had a 2013 Nissan Altima with less than 2,000 miles. It only took one drive in the Model S for her to get hooked on EVs. I was not going to pay for another Model S, so we traded her Altima for a Leaf. The dealer experience was yet another reminder of how incredible the Tesla ordering and ownership experience really is.

Our Leaf is a placeholder for the Model E. It's really a nice EV, but you can certainly tell that it came from a traditional car company that only looks at an EV as another car with an electric drive train instead of a gas engine.

Tesla took the right approach, much like Space-X, where you take a clean sheet of paper and design something without the limits of conventional thinking.

jjs | 3 May, 2014

+1 theapple

I have an S. My son leased a Leaf because he got spoiled by the smooth nature of an electric drive train and the money he saves on gas pays the lease payments.

Kudos for Nissan. Kudos to Tesla. Nissan needs to get range up and battery tech (i.e.better battery management system) improved. Tesla needs to get the price down. They both have work to do. I hope they both succeed.

bigd | 3 May, 2014

@jjs +10 "Kudos for Nissan. Kudos to Tesla" and don't forget ford :-) Keep spreading the word. Wish a few others on here had your common sense :-)

Volleyguy | 3 May, 2014

For sure not anti Leaf although was ticked Nissan put the Leaf as far back as possible at Detroit auto show.
Same with the Volt for Chev. It is what you get for twice the money. 3x range 3x power looks, size, Super Charging. You get something very real. For the next $40k to the P+85 you do of course get more. 20% more range, 30% more power? Toys better handling. I only mean the base MS60 although expensive is the only option for a car like that as is the P85+. I just hear over and over that Tesla is expensive but is it compared to E Class or 5 series???
In Canada in 1990 a E class cost $70k to start with rebate same as a base MS60 today... 24 years later...
A loaded 500e in 1992 was $110k then at 322hp.

kenj | 3 May, 2014

I would say that the cars are in in different classes and should not be compared.

The cost was similar to the Acura RL - which I had.

A Leaf is more in line with an entry level Acura or BMW (1 series), mid tier Nissan, Chevy or Ford.

When the Model E comes out, whenever that is, then it will be a fair comparison.

You could even compare on range class -- then price.