Gen III (maybe!)

Gen III (maybe!)

Well here we go. This may or may not be too popular.

2 months ago we put a deposit down on a S Performance pkg - loaded. Thought that it would be a good and alternate vehicle for us. Both my wife and I have a BMW and Porsches. Although the Tesla is $100K with minimal options (our opinion) - the bonus would be no fuel.

Then after much discussion and reading some trauma here - we decided to wait a few years until things were more under control. So we asked for the deposit back. This is where it gets sideways. First - there is no phone number to contact Tesla - you have to send an email. We sent an email stating that we want to cancel the deposit/order. 24-36 hours later my wife received a call from Tesla. He was pleasant and wanted to know what the reason was for canceling, which I will list. Second - he would process this within the next few days.

This is our response to him
For $100K (and I don't care if this car is power by anti-gravity pods) - a $100K car needs to have a certain amount of options. Example: 3 interior colors 6-7 exterior colors. A new BMW 650 has 15 interiors (with sub options) and 20 exterior colors. I have posted in an earlier thread about the lack of options, so I will not get into this again.

2) Delivery:
The signed contract agreement states that the car will be delivered in a COVERED container, and a tech will accompany the car for training. Well, this doesn't look like this is happening 100% of the time. Read one thread that a gentleman received his car in an open trailer, pulled by a pick-up and badly scratched. This tells me that there are problems at the factory. For one - it costs a lot less to ship by pick-up with a trailer than a covered trailer. I have experience with this, I have shipped several cars from both the east and west coasts. This is a BIG concern.

3) Repair:
So if something is wrong you "wait" for a tech to come to you. So what are you supposed to do in the meantime? Rent a car? Not for me - spending $100K, I better have a rental delivered to me. Both BMW and Porsche have loaners anytime the I have work done. BMW will give me a loaner even when I am having new tires mounted! Don't tell me that they are working on this. That has been the most common line that I have seen here. If they are still working on it - then the car has been released to early.

So the tech shows up at your house (as I was told). So, is this like the cable guy - he will be there between 9 and 3? What, I take off work and wait around the house until he shows? Then what - have a total stranger use my garage as his work shop? You can't leave the house with the tech there - at least I wouldn't. Again, both BMW and Porsche this would not even be a consideration. At one point during routine maintenance on my wife's Cayenne, the dealer forgot one thing. She called and informed them - immediately they asked how long she would be home. The sales manager personally drove out the loaner, picked up my wife's car and told her that they would be back tomorrow and exchange the cars. Again this was on a $108K vehicle - so in this dollar ballpark.

4) Tax refund
Yes, everyone is thinking that the $7500 is right of the cost of the vehicle. Well you better look into this. It all depends on your income, deductions, and other items that I was informed off (not an expert oaths at all) Not everyone will get $7500. best to check with your accountant on this one.

5) Fine Print
If you look closely at the contract there is a clause (in fine reprint of course) that basically states that the price that you have agreed on with this signed contract does not define the final price. Price increases may result from material, labor and other sources outside of Tesla's control. What!!!!

These are the items that my wife briefly informed the rep. He said that this has been the common issues with everyone that has cancelled -and (of course) "We are working on it".

Know for the best: It has now been three weeks and we have not received our deposit back - nor have we had any emails returned. So our next step is to disputed the charge to our credit card company and they will with draw the funds from Tesla. Anyone here in business knows that you DO NOT want this to happen to your company. Big no-no in with the credit card companies - big black eye. Multiple incidents will result in that credit card company pulling their account.

So Gen III - maybe

Sudre_ | 22 January, 2013

Canceling sounds like a good option for you. The first round of electrics are not going to be for everyone. Most reports are no problems getting the refund. Hope to see you in a few years with a Tesla when the bumpy waters smooth out.

shop | 22 January, 2013

If you don't like it, don't buy it. No need to justify yourself. It isn't that complicated.

RNB | 23 January, 2013

It reads to me like you are too casual of a researcher prior to ordering things. Those are all things that were true prior to two months ago, and surely you read your contract before signing it?

Perhaps just rephrase things next time and confess to being an ill informed consumer that rushes into things.

Brian H | 23 January, 2013

yes, sounds a little SHORT on real involvement; just has a SHORT list of quibbles. In SHORT, someone who counts on TM coming up SHORT.

Vawlkus | 23 January, 2013

Thankyou for saying that politely Brian. I saw this but decided not to post my inital reaction for reasons of decency. | 23 January, 2013

For months, cmadsen has peppered these forums with negative Tesla threads.

Considering all the complaining cmadsen has done in the past (about how inferior the Model S is to his precious M5), I'm surprised he put a deposit down on the Model S.

Very suspicious...

cmadsen | 23 January, 2013

Man!!!! - You just don't get it! What are you guys a bunch of chevy/ford/honda/kia drivers. Yes, the Tesla compared to those is amazing!

Bottom line for the last time. Its about the money and what you get for it. Tesla just isn't there - for me at this time. I think that they will get there - I will have to wait.

By the TDurden - Yes the M5 is phenomenal. Just a comparison from what I am driving now - every day. If I am spending $110K and that car looks the same (except for the wheels and a little CF on the rear deck) as the base model. That IS a problem for me. If the M5 looked like the base 5 series model. BMW wouldn't sell one of them. For the MONEY the top of the line Tesla -its not there. Not at the present time.

Top of the line car should have unique extras and options. Only proprietary to that model and not the lower ones. Make sense yet?

I do hope that Tesla will get there. My wife and I enjoyed the car - but just needs some tweaks. Hell - its a start up and I never buy the first series of a car - too many bugs. BMW and Porsche included. I always wait for the 2nd or third year.

BTW - no answers to our emails as of yet. So we will call the credit card company and dispute the purchase and get our money back. Tesla doesn't seemed interested right now

olanmills | 23 January, 2013

So you want to make sure people notice the money you spent, huh?


tommy-tesla | 23 January, 2013

Apart for point 1, all the points are completely valid IMO.
However I think some of the issues (eg. the flawed delivery)
were the exception rather than the norm and is part of the
growing pain.

I went into this expecting such (1st model year etc), but
it hasn't been as bad as I feared; mostly just some software
issues and stuff that weren't ready for the initial delivery.

If you expect a fully matured experience as you'd get from
BMW and Merc, then perhaps you should have waited longer.

Joshua Burstyn | 23 January, 2013

On one hand I understand the frustration of the OP. This car is *five times* the cost of my current vehicle (I paid 20K for my Hyundai) yet there aren't that many features I don't already have. I am buying the Model S because I think it's the right thing for my family to do. If you are buying the car because you want a 100K-class luxury vehicle, you could therefore conceivably be disappointed.

There is another way to look at it though. You could look at the Tesla Model S and see a vehicle developed from the ground up to be both evolutionary and revolutionary. You could see a vehicle that costs 100K primarily because battery costs are still high. One could also make the case that it's a status symbol and that the laws of supply and demand are in full effect here. (Although I suspect many of us are more interested in my next points rather than status symbols.) Finally you could look and see a vehicle that costs what it does because we are the early adopters who pay extra for a low-volume early production vehicle -- especially one with a totally unproven track record. As a group Model S buyers are much more tolerant and forgiving than most. We love technology and many of us are proud to be a part of what Tesla represents.

In short if you are looking to buy a luxury car with few bugs and 4+ star service, that's fine and I'm sure many people would agree with you that Tesla isn't there yet. I hope your experience doesn't stop you from taking another look in a few years when you might like the available options better.

danielccc | 23 January, 2013

Oh, this is ridiculous.

It's like comparing a fully loaded piston airplane to a base jet (where the Model S is the jet).

Also, the one that's making history, the one that's going to be in museums and top end collections 50 years from now, is not the M5, which is just another Bimmer.

cmadsen is demanding that somebody build a complete car company, including a dealer network the size of BMW's, before selling the first car.

This is not a good faith demand. Tesla is on the leading edge and leading edge products from small new companies aren't (by definition) sold by large old established ones.

I'm going with Brian H here. I don't think this guy is on the level. He comes up a little short, so to speak. | 24 January, 2013

cmadsen = "... I never buy the first series of a car... "

And yet, "... 2 months ago [cmadsen] put a deposit down on a S Performance pkg - loaded. Thought that it would be a good and alternate vehicle for us ... "

How very disingenuous.

ohtag | 24 January, 2013

To: Cmadsen, being a BMW person, did you sign up for either the MINI E or ACTIVE E test programs when they were available?

dr.jacks.tesla | 25 January, 2013

cmadsen, sorry but you are an "IDIOT." I am not sorry to be blunt here but you are like the bunch of Elitist NEW MONEY Americans that think their "Shit" doesn't stink. Don't buy a Tesla, keep you M5, which you defintely overpayed for at 110K (which is a overhyped and doesn't look much different than a 535 which completely negates your arguments). Your car is all whats wrong with Americans who now make over 100K, they think they are entitled to a kings ransom and people kissing their asses... Excuse me but just go away and hope BMW keeps kissing your tush, last time I went into an Audi/BMW dealership they treated me like a piece of shit (matches your personality) and just because I was wearing a sweatsuit and they did not think I was worthy of seeing their 70K car!!! Have fun my man!!! Oh btw, my famous last words, don't let the door hit you on the way out!

David70 | 25 January, 2013

I'm curious. How long ago was cmadsen on the Sig. waiting list? I didn't think there were any sigs available two months ago.

Alex K | 25 January, 2013

@David70 | JANUARY 25, 2013: I'm curious. How long ago was cmadsen on the Sig. waiting list? I didn't think there were any sigs available two months ago.

He said, "2 months ago we put a deposit down on a S Performance pkg - loaded." He didn't mention sig. But as you know, when you put a deposit down, you don't specify which model features you want. As far as Tesla was concerned, he might have been interested in a 40kWh base model.

David70 | 25 January, 2013

Sorry. I misread his post.

Objective1 | 25 January, 2013

cmadsen is a typical high-end care buyer. Tesla is going after that market. Cmadsen's comments are the frank comments of a somewhat impulsive high-end buyer, and we should just say "thanks."

Tesla is working on serving that buyer, but they don't have it all working right yet.

That doesn't mean that what they have done so far isn't fantastic. Just building a top-level car that could attract cmadsen is a amazing achievement for a start-up.

Objective1 | 25 January, 2013

Typo in previous: car buyer

kkiri7 | 27 January, 2013

I agree with @Objective1 - cmadsen may be excused for his frustration because today, even mid-luxury vehicles are very well equipped.
I recently drove the 2013 Audi A7. What a fabulous, good-looking car (almost 70% as pretty as the Tesla), with superb quality inside and out. All the options you'd have to pay extra for on a Tesla, are standard on the Premium Plus model. Their sale price was a tad over $60k.
It does 0 to 60 in 5.4 seconds and I found that passing cars on the highway was quite effortless – going from 70 to 85 felt as quick as in the ’05 Jaguar Vanden Plas.
Of course there was that slight lag which the Tesla does not have (and the A7 is not electric), but I now have some sympathy for those who are upset that one has to pay extra for "basic luxury options".
I personally did not get the same "Joy" I had driving the Tesla, but the A7 is truly an excellent sedan.
Current buyers like us are often enthusiasts who are willing to deal with the frustrations of being early adopters.
Buying any car in its first year of production often means putting up with lots of possible down time, niggling problems and increased stress levels. – something not everyone can or should put up with.

Brian H | 28 January, 2013

Dupe posts not necessary or appreciated.

Benz | 28 January, 2013

Not very long ago (November 2012), Elon Musk was in England, at the Oxford Martin School. He was invited there to talk about the future of Energy and Transport. In the beginning of his speach he said that he actually is always interested in "negative feedback". That means that he can use that "negative feedback" for the better, like a certain tool. Because that "negative feedback" helps him to think (on a more precised level) about how to improve the current level of quality of the products that he has to offer. And that is good. So, I think that we should be thanking the person who started this topic, because he probably has given some input about how to improve the level of quality of the products Tesla Motors.

The search for improvement is a never ending adventure. And every step in that direction should be considered as a good thing. Elon Musk has ideas to change the world. We should thank him for doing that for all of us. And if we can provide him with some "negative feedback", then that is to be considerd as something good. Because that's how we can help him ro reach his goals and change the world for the better.

The person who has started this topic has used the title: "GEN III (MAYBE!)". I think that in a few years time he actually will buy Tesla car, just because it will be the best possible choice for him to do financially. One day even he will stop buying petrol or diesel.

cmadsen | 28 January, 2013

Well - alittle more faith in Tesla restored.

My wife, found the phone number for customer service (she told me that there wasn't one). So my previous statement of no number is in error. Called and asked for the guy she was talking to previous.
He wasn't available - so the guy taking the call would help. After a brief explanation - the guy started out with the excuses - we're busy, end of year, concentrating on production issues.......... Just when Cathy was about to use a hammer - he stated that "This was their fault and that there was no excuse for what happened to us. The credit will be processed that day, and the concerns that we brought up were being closely looked at and will be considered at a later date."

Okay - thats better - credit received later that same day. so all is better.

I will continue to watch the site and see what develops. I really do hope that some of these items will be addressed. I have some friends and acquaintances that would order a Tesla Performance Model if these items were added.

Again, a good car - working to be a great car. For us - its what you get for $100K+. The service is a big concern - as stated above.

Thanks everyone for your comments. BTW - some of you thin skins need to mellow out. On my Porsche websites - some people have hammered the new 991 - but haven't gotten personal like this site. We state our opinions and go on - here you want to give your opinion along with a knife in the back. I don't get it (and - the pissed of people are alittle amusing) Still car guys people - just differences of opinions.

Waiting to see Gen III

kkiri7 | 28 January, 2013

Hi Brain H,

What is a "dupe post" - I may be from the wrong generation
to know that term. It must be bad, since you disliked what I wrote - why?


Brian H | 28 January, 2013

Duplicate, repeating same post in 2 or multiple threads. Please don't. And I suspect you're from a later (lesser, lower) generation than I am. ;p

Benz | 28 January, 2013

Being critical is good.

You haven't turned your back towards Tesla Motors ("Waiting to see Gen III"). That's also good.

The people from Tesla Motors are going to unveil the Gen III when they think its the right time to do so. It will be considerably good, that's for sure if you ask me. If you will compare the Gen III to the other cars that will be available at that time (in the same price range), you will see that it will be good to choose the Tesla Gen III car, both technically as financially. Ask yourself: "How long do you want to be addicted to oil"?

holidayday | 28 January, 2013

Brian H: Duplicate, repeating same post in 2 or multiple threads.

Since the majority of users probably DON'T read each and every thread, I think it's okay to duplicate posts if the subject warrants it.
Now, if a lengthy post is repeated in the same thread, then I can see that this can be unneeded. However, in different threads with similar subject matter, the posts may not necessarily annoy 98% of posters who do not read every single thread.

(apologies for off-topic)

Brian H | 28 January, 2013

Wrong. It is very disruptive, and should never be done. It splits the conversation into separate streams, causes confusion, and generally litters the boards.


Vawlkus | 28 January, 2013

Linking to posts in other threads will provide access to thoughts/ideas in other threads without the unneeded padding duplicating posts generates.

Tiebreaker | 28 January, 2013

All you folks that like the not-Tesla cars are allright. Those are all fabulous cars, and you will be very happy owning and driving them.

As many a poster said, Tesla Model S is not for everybody. It is aimed at approximately 20,000 buyers worldwide per year. You don't need to be one of them. I don't think Tesla will change their business model and philosophy to satisfy every whim of every potential buyer, at least as long as there is a mile long waiting line. When the line shortens, well... then maybe.

And don't forget: in their early days in the US, Porsche was laughed at and was the province of engineering geeks. Look how the table has turned...

Tiebreaker | 28 January, 2013

p.s. a lot more high-end buyers will buy the Model S when a critical mass of "cool people" that own a Model S is reached. You will not want to be the last house on the block with old-fashioned Porsches, MBs and BMWs... it will be either a MS or a Lambo...


Benz | 29 January, 2013

Off course other brands have great cars on offer (performance and looks). But the point is that we have to get rid of oil consumption. Because it's bad for the environment of our planet.

Let me put it this way. It's a kind of a parallel, I think. People who smoke cigarettes and/or cigars, should also stop doing that, because it's bad for their health, it's bad for their body. These people should start chewing gum, and stay away from cigarettes and cigars.

kkiri7 | 29 January, 2013

Hello again, Brian H

1. Did not think that it was a "dupe" post - esp. when looked at side by side, they are quite different, even if the Audi example is a common factor.

2. The information was relevant to the second forum topic that I posted on.

If you are truly older than I, then we can certainly excuse your widely shared grouchiness on several of the Forum topics :)

Before you react, let me humbly say that due to your advice, I will be careful not to post anything that looks like a duplicate post again.

@Holiday, thanks so much for your input.
As a group of electric car enthusiasts and Tesla investors, perhaps we can cut one another some slack and allow this to be the enjoyable, exciting dialog it has been.

Best wishes to everyone for an enjoyable, reliable Model S and decent returns on our TSLA investments.

- best.

Mel. | 29 January, 2013

kk and holiday, sounds like you like to,hear what you like to hear.... Most of us are fine with just hearing it once

Brian H | 29 January, 2013

Luxury ICE cars are just fancy putt-putts. >:) TM should have a campaign, "Junk your putt-putt and drive a real car." >:)

Benz | 30 January, 2013

Both are cars and provide us mobility, but the most important point is that the ICE cars are polluting the air, and the EV is not doing that (directly). And offcourse there is a question of Performance and Range. And that's where Tesla Motors have become successful. Because older EV's did not have good Performance and Range. By the way, Tesla cars look great (that's a matter of taste).

olanmills | 3 February, 2013

"cmadsen is a typical high-end care buyer. Tesla is going after that market." ~@Objective1

I don't know if the first sentence is true, but I understand what you mean by your second sentence. However, I think that is wrong.

Maybe some day, with some models, Tesla will be going after that market. However, right now, I don't really think that's the market they're going for.

They have (relatively) no traditional marketing. That means no commercials, no ads in GQ or Maxim or whatever. Those are the kinds of places the other luxury guys look for potential customers.

Instead, their stores are next to the GameStop and across from Aunt Annie's Pretzels. All of their current and soon-to-be owners are people who only probably knew about the Model S via the Internet and were still excited enough to plunk down $5,000. Now, if you do know about the car and want the car, maybe you can see one or drive one if you leave close to a store, but even then, it will be months, if not a year before you can own one.

So right now, this is not the car shopping experience a "typical high-end care buyer" is looking for. Instead, they had to get behind me in line, way behind me.

I have heard of wealthy people asking Tesla, "How do I get one?" "Where do I throw my money?"

Well that doesn't work folks.

Benz | 4 February, 2013

@ olanmills,
How should Tesla Motors do the marketing for their EV's, in your opinion?