Battery Range - when does curiosity matriculate to concern?

Battery Range - when does curiosity matriculate to concern?

My RWD LR Model 3 now has 22K miles - delivered August of last year with a 30XXX VIN.

As with most of us, 90% of my driving is around town and nightly charges provide plenty of juice needed the next day. As a result, I never touch the charging level GUI - it's at around 80%.

A month ago, my nightly charge topped out at about 260 miles. Without any charging mods, that number is slowly dropping. Maybe a couple miles a week. The last 10 days has seen a precipitous and consistent drop, this morning being at 237 miles. I have a scheduled appointment with Tesla in mid-August to perform my state inspection and maybe investigate a few rattles. I'll bring the battery issue up then but is anyone else seeing anything along these lines? My daily mileage averages 80-120 miles (long commute). Should I occasionally bump the daily charge to close to 90% or alter the daily settings in some way as a means to "refresh" the charging mechanism?

Any (positive) feedback appreciated.

dmastro | 11 July, 2019

I haven't been too concerned since I assume the range is more or less just an estimate and whatever battery measurements are used are just a little off. That said, I have noticed that after reducing from 280 to 277 over the first 8 months or so, over the last two weeks the range has reduced each charging cycle to end up at 270 yesterday.

At some point I'll take everyone's advice and try to run it down and then perform a full charge to see if that resets things. If not, when I take the car in for an annual inspection I'll make sure they take a look to confirm all is well.

nolasco1974 | 11 July, 2019

I have Model 3 performance with 18,000 miles and at 90% it has dropped 17 miles. I’m starting to keep an eye on it to see if it drops more. Many people will say, don’t worry about it and just drive. They have a point, but at the same time, if I spent 80,000 on a car, I want to make sure battery degradation is within normal limits.

nolasco1974 | 11 July, 2019

I have Model 3 performance with 18,000 miles and at 90% it has dropped 17 miles. I’m starting to keep an eye on it to see if it drops more. Many people will say, don’t worry about it and just drive. They have a point, but at the same time, if I spent 80,000 on a car, I want to make sure battery degradation is within normal limits.

tps | 11 July, 2019

237 miles on an 80% charge is not that far out of the norm for a LR M3. (260 miles is above the norm by about 4% points, BTW.)

A lot of factors can effect the range after it finishes charging. Overheat protection, for example, will take away a few miles.

Not enough information to make anything more than an educated guess, but seems to not be in the realm of concern yet.

LostInTx | 11 July, 2019

Thanks for the input - so people are seeing a bit of degradation, to varying degrees. Not a surprise I suppose but a 23 mile drop in a bit over a month seems... interesting. The folks at the Tesla service center here in Houston are top-notch and incredibly helpful.

Maybe they'll just scrap the car, make it a loaner and give me a new one.. or maybe not.

RJMIII | 11 July, 2019

I used 15% of my battery (started at 90% and dropped to 75%) during my 47.8 mile commute. So, I guess that means I should expect a range of about 319 miles. My range is a little worse in the winter.

I bought last August and have 26,715 miles as of this morning. I switched the battery display from the mileage estimate setting to % charge remaining after the first week because the numbers for range estimate were a only little better than random.

Miles are meaningless.

gballant4570 | 11 July, 2019

I have an AWD LR config, went past 13k miles yesterday.. I charge daily to 90%, whether I have a 240 mile day (yesterday) or a 30 mile day (more common). I charge to 100% weekly, with an additional morning charge rather than leaving it sit on 100% for a few hours.

My 90% charge mileage estimate has not moved from the time of delivery (9 Oct 2018) at 278-279 miles. My 100% charge has gone up slightly, from 305-306 at the time of delivery to 310 today.

Not sure how that applies to your situation, but I do have a fairly long day once a week that results in fairly broad battery SOC cycling. Perhaps that broader cycling helps with calibration of the SOC mileage estimate process. Or perhaps you are seeing capacity degradation while I am not.

Or there could be other external factors entering into this that have not been mentioned or noticed. I am in Maryland, and park/charge the car in a barn with a second story, so even in hot weather its in a relatively cooler environment.

Its a data point to consider either way I guess.

Lorenzryanc | 11 July, 2019

College is too expensive ;)

LostInTx | 11 July, 2019

@Lorenzryanc, well, if you live in Texas, an qualify for admittance to The University of Texas and have a household income of less than $65,000 (yea, this is a Tesla forum, so not likely), tuition, starting in 2020, is free.

Useless plug but I'm proud of my alma mater. I'm also proud that UT's $31B endowment is finally being put to use.

vmulla | 11 July, 2019

Since your best 80% is 260, your projection for best case 100 is 310 miles. Correct?
Would you please ask the tech at Tesla what your baseline 100% should be?

vmulla | 11 July, 2019

Sorry 325* (not 310)

Joshan | 11 July, 2019

the real question is notwhat it charges to, as that is just a software algorithm (also known as a guess).

Real world will tell you much more. If you drive the same route everyday like you say, you should have around the same battery percentage (not miles) when you get home from work. How much has that changed?

SteveWin1 | 11 July, 2019

Urban dictionary's definition for matriculate: A fancy word used to make yourself sound more intelligent in a high stakes situation. Actual definition is irrelevant, use it confidently to replace any more common word and earn immediate respect from your friends and co-workers.

LostInTx | 11 July, 2019

So SteveWin1, you typed that response.. instead of doing what?

LostInTx | 11 July, 2019

@Joshan, my burn rate over miles driven hasn't really changed much. The summer heat probably plays a bit of a role but the battery usage during day is pretty consistent. It's just the charge that's a bit off.

LostInTx | 11 July, 2019

and @vmulla , good advise. I've been told (instructed) by my wife that we're going to Corpus Christi next weekend to watch a friend's kid make his pitching debut for the Hooks (Astros' AA farm team). I'll charge to 100% prior to leaving and see what's available.

Joshan | 11 July, 2019

I dont mean "burn rate", unless I am misunderstanding you.

I am saying the miles display is a guess, where the percentage display is a real measurement.

Say for the last 2 months when you got home from work you averaged being at 42% battery. What percentage is your battery at now when you get home on average? that is a real number and a way better indicator of battery health. Of couse there are variables to that also.... which is why you need many runs and averages.

12Brent | 11 July, 2019

@LostInTx I'm at almost the exact same place as you with my battery charging information. I have 24,000 miles on a LR RWD car that was delivered in April of '18. 80% charge gets 238 miles. I just did a 2000 mile road trip and charged to 100% one morning before a 225 mile leg with no chargers (northern MN is a charging wasteland) and I got 299 miles at 100% (technically it never completed charging because it still said "calculating time remaining" for quite awhile. I was hoping my 20% to 100% charge would help "balance" the batteries, as people say, but I didn't see any improvement in charging stats afterwards. For now, I'm not really worried about it; the car was amazing on my trip and I never had a moment of range anxiety.

12Brent | 11 July, 2019

Also, I feel like I saw a good drop after installing a recent software update. I was getting 254 miles at 80% just a short time ago and then after an update it was noticeably lower. I figured the range estimation algorithm got adjusted, or thrown off during the software installation.

gballant4570 | 11 July, 2019

Broad cycling of SOC (charge to high percentage, discharge to low percentage) somewhat routinely may play a role here. I'll be able to say better perhaps in another 10 months, as I've only put 13k on the car. It sounds like something might be happening in the 20k-25k mile range for some owners.

CASEMAN | 11 July, 2019

@12Brent +1

RES IPSA | 11 July, 2019

I was having a tough time re-calibrating my miles... at 100%, it always said 302 miles of range when it should be closer to 325. I tried several times to drop it to 10% and then charge it to 100%. That did not work.

A Ranger came to my house and suggested that I drive it down to 10% and park it for 12-24 hours. Then charge it to 100%. When I did that, it finally showed 319 miles at 100%

vmulla | 11 July, 2019

I cycled my battery several times to recalibrate, but didn't know that the car had to be left alone at below 10% for 12-24hrs. Glad that it worked for you.
Can you please share what you're lifetime wh/m is? I think that would be a big factor in any range algorithm, and would like to compare. Thanks

gaurav.tyagi | 12 July, 2019

@LostInTx - I am in the same boat as you. I have a mid range and always charged to 85%. Used to get 225 miles consistently up until 3 weeks ago. Since then I am losing 1-2 miles with every recharge and sit at 211 as of last recharge. Tesla is doing a remote diagnostic on the car. Will provide an update once I hear back.

Techy James | 12 July, 2019

@tps 360 miles is out of norm for LR RWD version, check your math, the car has a range of 325 miles. 80% is exactly 260 miles. Now that is adaptive and takes in consideration your efficiency. In the winter months where I ran the heat I noticed that range dropped a little below the 260 mark. Now that we are in heat of summer I have actually noticed the 80% charge in many times showing 267, and my daily average wpm has moved below the stated of 239 to normally in the180 to 210 depending if it's mainly city or highway.

@LostInTx If you want to see how your wpm is currently doing trying resetting one of the two trip meters then driving a few days. If your average wpm is > 239 for those few days, then you can expect the estimated range to alter too.

gballant4570 | 12 July, 2019

Wh/m is a data point that is important here as vmulla indicates. Mine is currently 241, and has been dropping from the winter high of 256. I am expecting come anniversary time (early Oct) that it will be near or below the EPA basis of 234. If I experience the same as the OP at the 20k+ mark, and my wh/m is still close to the EPA basis, that may help determine if the evidence points toward degradation or not. Of course if Tesla is doing diagnostics, they will be well aware....

jjgunn | 12 July, 2019

The screen could read 1 mile. If you're still receiving the same Efficiency, that's what is most important.

When you arrive at your destination, do you end up at the same % battery as when it read 260?

RES IPSA | 12 July, 2019

@vmulla... I have about 8900 miles on the car. Took delivery on 8/3/18.

243 wh/m is the lifetime efficiency, but I live in San Diego and the car is usually parked in a garage

RES IPSA | 12 July, 2019

I just wanted to reset the calibration, especially since my LR RWD was suppose to have gotten that extra 15 miles of range.

slingshot18 | 12 July, 2019

Yeah, I'd reset calibration. My car was showing low 260 until I rate it down to around 40 miles and then charged to 90% again. This morning it said 275. I'm good with that.

beaver | 12 July, 2019

I was at 308-310 since I bought it until the
Range extension update, it increased to 315, but in late May through June it fell fast to 303 and has stayed there. 30,000 miles since July 2018

FISHEV | 13 July, 2019

Degradation is a fact of life for Li-ion batteries. Tesla says it tracks it with the "Battery Health" data it produces. You can see the visualization best in StatsApp which has nice graphics on all the Model 3 data provide by the car. It provides the individual data points and then an average degradation line. After four months and 4,000 miles, I have a typical slow sloping average.

If you see sudden anomalies, I'd use the Tesla app to put in a Service Request so you document that issue. Tesla will be forced to look it if only via Virtual Technician.