.. over service & quality issues
I can totally relate to this.
I saw that earlier and tend to believe Tesla's response. The article is half baked trash in my opinion..
The purchasing company says Tesla cancelled the order but Tesla says the purchasing company cancelled it over a different dispute... I'll believe Tesla's account unless more info is brought forward as I can't see Tesla just cancelling a $5M order...
It is ashame people feel the need to go to the press to get action when they feel bullied or wronged by Tesla. There would be no need to go to the press with a story like this if there was no foundation in being felt wronged. Dan should have never had to go to the press before getting attention either. There is a an obvious culture issue and even old timers here are saying things like "this is not the same company I bought two cars from".
would have stuffed deliveries if they'd won tho!
Rental car is subjected to much higher abuse by driver. Plus repair could be frustrating and expensive. Tesla is not idea for rental fleet to the masses.
So…approximately 0.14% of Tesla’s quarterly Model 3 deliveries? Wow, this is a really big deal.
Also, the linked article presents one incomplete (but completely biased) view. But yeah, cool story, bro.
@DanFoster1 - “So…approximately 0.14% of Tesla’s quarterly Model 3 deliveries? Wow, this is a really big deal.”
It is if it multiplies.
Vehicle availability is critical for the cash flow of a rental car company. A car cannot be rented if it’s in the shop. Excess time out due to delays in repairs or servicing could be the difference between profit and loss. If the on-the-ground experience of rental companies is that Tesla vehicles cannot maintain the required availability to ensure positive cash flow, then word will spread, and yeah, it will be a big deal.
Most car companies now avoid rental fleets like the plague. They often pay less the cost of the car and the warranty work exceeds normal customers because of the abuse the cars take. Some carmakers dump cars into the rental fleet to show good sales numbers for a car or to become the "best selling" car in the category. I'm sure rental sales are also one way to get rid of excess inventory.
Tesla doesn't need any losses from the retail car company sales nor do they need any fake bragging rights.
The main point of the article was to spotlight Tesla’s initial quality or lack there of. The perception of poor fit and finish has dogged Tesla since the introduction of the M3. Whether the perception is justified or not, Tesla needs to redouble their efforts to reverse this perception. Senior management in Marketing and Quality Control have their work cut out for them.
However, any rental car company who offers a stable of EVs will be besieged by desperate Tesla owners, who thrill at the possibility to rent a Tesla on business or on vacation instead of ICE cars. I would pay a lot extra to rent a Tesla for my next vacation.
Read the OP and understand why he shared it. That's just as telling.
pkmantmc | August 16, 2019
Rental car is subjected to much higher abuse by driver. Plus repair could be frustrating and expensive. Tesla is not idea for rental fleet to the masses.
But the 3 was designed to be a shareable car in the first place. However, you're right about 3 not being the ideal rental vehicle from a big company point of view - just the service times make it difficult.
Surprising, Enterprise in Orange county, CA rents a bunch of Model S vehicles, never hear of them having a problem. I drove one for a while when I took my Model 3 to the SC, it was in good shape and drove well. I don't understand the service, what's there to service???? Too bad about this deal, TESLA doesn't need anymore bad publicity.
"Tesla doesn't need any losses from the retail car company sales nor do they need any fake bragging rights" @TeslaTap.com
right, they are making enough losses selling cars to individuals.
For a company that relies on satisfied customers for word of mouth advertising, it's not a good sign.
When I get asked about my "Tesla experience", my answer always starts like: great car, BUT, terrible service.
Not being able to get an SC appointment for a squeaky steering wheel for 2 weeks didn't help their reputation imo. I was lucky I bought the car cash, once I called to return the car after 5 days, I got the SC appointment the next day to fix issues with my car. People who fiance their cars don't tend to be that lucky, you can see numerous posts with the theme "loving the car so far, BUT ..."
As more and more people buy these cars with bad after the sale service, word of mouth can be devastating.
I know that people are harder on rental cars than their own car, but I suspect that many people are even harder on rental Teslas. My Model 3 was in a large body shop for a few days and the rental company that was attached to the shop had a Model S that I was supposed to get for a loaner. Unfortunately, the previous renter damaged it. I told them I would take it anyway because I saw it parked in the lot and the front end looked fine. It turned out that the charge port was hit and not working and the repair would not be done in time for me to rent it. Because the insurance company for the person who hit my car was paying for everything (that is another story) I was entitled to get a "luxury" car. They were out of BMW's and I ended up with some stupid ICE SUV that was fully loaded with crap I didn't need or want, but it was the highest value rental vehicle they had that day. To add insult to injury, it got very poor mileage, so I avoided driving it because I didn't want to emit so much carbon.
@kaushal, I don't know where you are, but every time I have taken my car to the Service Center in Costa Mesa, Ca the service has been outstanding and professional. Sometimes, it is not them but rather the negative attitude on the part of the customer and I have witness some and read some in this forum.
pkmantmc: Ah, qualifiers!
'too much' ... 'higher abuse' ... 'could be' ... 'not ideal'
Well, it's a good thing there is likely a Porsche dealership down the street willing to sell the Taycan, an AUDI dealershp willing to supply the eTron, a Mercedes-Benz dealership willing to supply the EQC, right? Of course, they'll probably get fewer cars for the same expenditure of cash... But hey, at least they'll get the sort of dependable Service, regular Maintenance, & attentive Repair they have become accustomed to, appropriate to such an outlay of cash. Good for them. Thank God for competition.
DanFoster1: ;-) Oh, I see what you did there. :-D
bj: There have been multiple issues pointed out by EV NaySayers that were stated to be 'deep rooted problems' within Tesla that 'could' grow into major losses 'if it multiplies' over the years. Thus far, none of those 'concerns' has 'multiplied' in such a fashion. Pardon me for thinking that maybe, just maybe, Tesla employs competent people that get on top of such things BEFORE they can get out of hand in the manner that NaySayers promote as all but inevitable.
TeslaTap: I believe that Ford bought Hertz and Chrysler founded Dollar|Thrifty Automotive specifically so they could 'hide' inventory as 'sales' to rental fleets, thereby skewing their quarterly numbers.
Lonestar10_1999: I am reminded of this quote...
"Power, without perception, is spiritually useless, and therefore has no value." -- Ryu-Ken, 'Fist of the North Star'
It seems to me that someone at the Rental Agency thought they could throw their weight around, make unreasonable demands strictly because of the potential monetary value of their proposed order, and were dismayed to not get their way. That's OK. I'm sure that the local Jaguar dealership will go out of their way to fill a similar order with half as many I-Pace cars whle holding their hands and pandering the whole time.
I tend to believe that sending unreasonable, unprepared, uncooperative, unprofessional Customers elsewhere is always a WIN, never a 'loss'.
sbeggs: +42! Correctomundo!
vmulla: Exactly. Precisely. Tesla updated us with the 'Master Plan Part Deux' specifically to annotate the goal of Tesla as a whole to make their cars shareable through an Autonomous Network. Some though, are so focused on 'luxury' and 'exclusivity' that they don't realize Tesla is more interested in enabling technology and making EVs ubiquitous.
kaushal: Your position on so-called 'losses' is well documented. I rather disagree.
gwolnik: If only people realized what REAL 'luxury' entails. Like, never having to purchase gasoline.
apodbdrs: I suspect that though some claim it is Tesla Service they find lacking, and others report issues with general communications, that many such complaints are from those who expect to be catered to a certain way, best described as 'bowing and scraping' and are put off by the fact Tesla employees do not pander in that manner, no matter how much they spend.
@ReD - Nice - love and agree with your statement:
Losing a $5 million deal may mean something if demand is the bottleneck. But if supply is still the bottleneck then that 85 cars would just go to someone else waiting in line. My optimistic way of explaining why Tesla didn't bother with negotiation and go straight to cancellation...
It is weird that whiners on the forum are accepted with open arms but whiners about product are told to shove off.
@kaushal "I can totally relate to this."
WOW ... you lost a $5M deal, too? Really hope you recover.
Tesla should now offer a special pricing deal to a company which is a direct competitor of that rental company. Make them feel some regret.
TeslaTap: Thank you.
steveishere: Correct. That is why when a 'Customer' proclaims in an irate tone, "I'll never buy from you ever again!" I smile and say to myself, "No, you won't. Goodbye. (Good riddance.)"
I ask them, "Ah. So you want me to close your account and cancel any outstanding orders...? I can do that if you'd like, it's not a problem at all... I'll just make a note of your name and request."
Never bluff. Especially when someone may Call, and you can't afford it. I will do everything in my power to reasonably and efficiently satisfy the needs of someone I expect to be a continuing Customer. When they open their mouths to say the 'magic words' in the midst of an irate tirade, I don't have leeway to presume they 'didn't really mean it', effectively calling them a liar. And besides, when there are dozens of other 'calls in queue' I don't have time to waste anyway.
Magic 8 Ball: Let's just say, now I have some understanding as to why some old folks say, "Not all money is good money." Some 'Customers' are simply not worth the effort, hassle, or heartbreak they bring along every time.
tps: Yeah, that might hurt a bit. Just think though, how the guy who thought he was playing 'hard ball' feels when the deal falls through and there is no one to blame but himself for the empty lot outside that was supposed to be filled with Tesla cars. What would he tell his boss? Worse yet, what if he is the boss? What to tell his Partners?
in7: Nah. No reason to discount sales of perfectly functional, fully acceptable products. The only thing that need be said is, "Next!" Whomever declined to purchase before can spend the next few weeks wondering why the guy staring back at them in the mirror every day looks like 'Boo-Boo The Fool'.
@ReD True some are not worth the effort but there seems to be a disconnect in consistency throughout the Tesla culture on that. It is often difficult to predict the output of a small stimulus. That being said sometimes there is no better taste than the sweet sweet taste of revenge just prepare for the bitter aftertaste. : ).
"If someone hurts you make the bitch pay"
@Red eXiLe ms us - “There have been multiple issues pointed out by EV NaySayers that were stated to be 'deep rooted problems' within Tesla that 'could' grow into major losses 'if it multiplies' over the years. Thus far, none of those 'concerns' has 'multiplied' in such a fashion”
Are you sure about that? Complaints about Tesla service and slow repairs / parts availability are very common here, and over at TMC as well. Some “old timers” are saying that the company their bought their Model S from is not the same company that they bought their 3 from. Are you saying their experiences are not real or valid?
That’s not to say that good service experiences don’t exist. But Tesla is shipping way, way more BEVs than it has ever in the past. That massively increases the pool of units that may need fixing at some point, regardless of whether it is at-fault damage, third party damage or a manufacturing fault. Has the SC capability expanded in proportion? It’s a legitimate question.
@bj Forums are a tiny and biased sample. Sites like Yelp have that programmed into their vetting of posters. When I joined Yelp I left 5 positive reviews and they were rejected because I did not fit the profile of a first time poster complainer.
Magic 8 Ball: Sometimes you have to make the decision to accept the notion that 'Food is not fattening. Eating all the food, then sitting on the couch, is fattening.'
People tend to often have a bit of disconnect between cause and effect. That's why Trolls exclaim loudly about a 'lack of demand' every Q1 since 2014, as if they forget entirely about the annual cyclical nature of the entire automotive industry. It is also why Tesla NaySayers have literally claimed the Model 3 has 'no effect' on U.S. sales of German cars, even though around 140,000 units of BMW 3-Series were sold to U.S. Customers in both 2014 and 2015, but less than 73,000 in 2016, the year the Tesla Model 3 was unveiled. And it is why the very same Trolls that champion a 'lack of demand' and 'falling sales' for the Tesla Model S neglect to note how it still outsells its contemporaries in the U.S. among large flagship vehicles, so Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 3-Series, AUDI A8, Jaguar XE, and Lexus LS among others are still sucking hind teets in U.S.sales when compared directly to Tesla Model S in the U.S., despite supposedly 'declining sales'. I bet executives for Porsche would love to see sales for the Panamera that 'declined' to such a quantity. Instead, it's all it can do to outshine the Maserati Quattroporte in sales. Rots-O-Ruck to the coming Porsche Taycan and AUDI eTron GT.
We got several Porsche people on the block (one with three in the drive, maybe a dealer) with one Panamera (what the heck were they thinking with that one). The number of M3's are growing steadily and the porch drivers don't seem to smile much anymore, I wonder why?
Magic 8 Ball: They aren't fans of the B-52's?
"It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine..."
@M8B+@Red - so in your view, there are absolutely no systemic service issues to be concerned about?
@Red - that’s R.E.M,, not the B-52’s.
R.E.M. + B-52's = Happy Shiny Tesla People
bj & coselectric: Thanks! Plus R.E.O. Speedwagon, Electric Light Orchestra, and Simply Red, equals the same guys! At least I didn't mistake them for the Thompson Twins or UB40... this time. ;-)
bj: I have said for the past five-and-a-half years that Tesla's biggest 'systemic' issue within the U.S. has been and still is the efforts of groups like NADA (National Automobile Dealers Association) and General Motors to place legal roadblocks in their way regarding direct sales and service. The only good thing that has come of their deny, delay, defer tactics has been that Tesla has been forced, not to capitulate, but to innovate. Thus, the Service Ranger program has grown tremendously and far beyond its original scope. Otherwise, Tesla would have expanded their Store and Service Center locations like wildfire, possibly spending money unnecessarily to reach new sites as quickly as Starbucks Coffee, Krispy Kreme Donuts, Jambo Juice, and Subway sandwich shops have expanded in recent years.
Those who need more handholding, bowing and scraping, or pandering can make their way to AUDI, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, and Porsche dealerships, where they can be treated appropriately for the dollars they spend if they want that certain level of arse-kissing to go along with their getting their wallets lifted. It's not as if they are busy selling cars or anything. Besides, competition is good, or will be, if it ever shows up.
As for communications issues, I feel those will be properly sorted when all customer facing Tesla employees nationwide are allowed to operate under the same rules, homogenized instead of fractured. Because there are some things they are not allowed to answer or comment on by law in Utah, Texas, Iowa, Michigan, et al. Tesla's plan all along was to offer a unified, consistent, specific means of interacting with their Customers from start to finish. Unfortunately, The LAW, specifically Frachise Law governing the sale of new cars does NOT allow that type of consistency, unity of purpose, uniformity to be implemented by an automobile manufacturer. Not even one that has no 'independent franchised dealerships' of its own to compete against, fairly or unfairly.
You are welcome to discuss or elucidate or expand upon your own opinion s you see fit. But no, from my perspective, there is no fundamental, systemic, engrained issue with 'service' within Tesla that could conceievably lead to any lasting or growing 'concerns' whatsoever. Some might suggest greasing a few palms might help get political machinery moving Tesla's way sooner. No.
No under-the-table backroom deals. No extorsion, bribery, or threats. No silent campaign contributions accompanied by a wink and a nod. Any authority figure that expects, requests, or demands such treatment should be reported to the FBI immediately. This will be one the right way, or not at all.
In the meantime, sales for Cadillac, Lincoln, Chrysler, and several other brands trail those of Tesla over the past year-and-a-half. Let's see that improve to 24, 30, 36 consecutive months, shall we? Let's see it expand to include Subaru, Mazda, and all of Hyundai-Kia. By that time, Tesla's U.S. market share should be enough to sustain their growth to a point where annual sales challenge or rival Nissan and Honda while leaving Buick and Volkswagen in the dust.
And once FSD is online, sales numbers won't matter in the slightest. Because profitability of The Tesla Network is guaranteed. But then, I am your Friendly Neighborhood Over-the-Top Optimistic Tesla Certified Apologist Fanboy. So, I could be wrong.
@bj I really don't worry about stuff. Our first hand experience with Tesla service has been super. I also spend a lot of time here and have picked sources I trust that appear more credible than others. Most reasonable and rational long term owners share similar viewpoints and maybe that is why they come across as fanbois; I do not take their stories as kool aid induced blabber. The end of the world sky is falling stories become a huge guffaw when I go look at our car to find the same 1mm glass roof misalignment that I never noticed until I looked for it. Some people don't understand these are cars not a gazillion jewel swiss chronograph. It boggles my mind what people complain about.
@ReD eXiLe ms us - “I have said for the past five-and-a-half years that Tesla's biggest 'systemic' issue within the U.S. has been and still is the efforts of groups like NADA (National Automobile Dealers Association) and General Motors to place legal roadblocks in their way regarding direct sales and service”
And of course, that situation in the US is truly puzzling to those of us elsewhere. I don’t think any other country in the world prevents Tesla from directly selling cars through their own stores.
I thought the US was supposed to be “the land of the free”, where the dead hand of government doesn’t get in the way of the inherent brilliance of free enterprise?
“land of the free” is some hilarious propaganda when you consider we imprison the largest number and biggest percentage of our citizens.
Meanwhile service is improving and additional resources are able to be deployed with the continued ramping of deliveries.
Just like the Supercharging Network. Just like delivery centers. Mobile service.
And each of these will get even better and more dense once the Tesla Network arrives in 2020.
@bj The country of USA does not prevent Tesla from direct selling. Each of our states have separate "laws" and it is only some states preventing the practice. Not all states are as "free" as others.
The USA, not USA...
(rolleyes) is that from wikipedia too? "The" is overused and unnecessary in most applications of the word. People in LA say "the hwy 101" or "the 101". Up here in the real world we just say 101 when referring to hwy 101.
Now I'm reminded of NFL Players speaking of their Alma Mater as 'THE University of Ohio' during player introductions on Monday Night Football...
Q: Why are NFL players introduced with their college team?
Donald, if that's your name, I request you refer to my country with utmost respect and call it properly.
You own USA, do tell. When using USA do you mean United State America or United States Of America?
The most worthless people on the internet are spelling and typo checkers, they contribute nothing to a forum, especially one that does not allowing editing of posts.
What worthful information do your posts contain? Lol
I try to provide helpful information to other owners, I notice you posts contain only ad hominem. It is almost a month since your last ad hominem attack on me for a typo, am I detecting a monthly pattern?
We go to Home Depot twice a week. Employees call it “the Home Depot”.
So, Don, why do you try to keep every negative Tesla thread alive?
Why do you have nothing to contribute but ad hominem? I try to offer sincere help to people that want to be successful, I have not seen any attempt from you to help anyone. If you feel this is a negative thread I can ask you the same; why do you participate in the negativity?
Most businesses are all very nice, if it wasn't for the customers.
So I suppose you could say, this is a great forum, if it were not for the people posting here.
I would never join a club that would have me as a member.