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Disable Automatic Emergency Braking?

Disable Automatic Emergency Braking?

Today my wife was driving our 2017 Model S on the highway when a car slowed down quickly in front of her. She noticed what was happening and slowed down when suddenly the car SLAMMED ON THE BRAKES and stopped the car to a complete standstill on the highway (the car in front of her had long-since driven away). She was lucky the cars behind her (who were all visibly shaken) we able to stop in time. She has bruises on her shoulder and has probably injured her back because of this sudden and unexpected stop (which is really no different than running into a wall unexpectedly).

This is a DANGEROUS feature that needs to be disabled. Is there a way to do this?

andy.connor.e | 25 October, 2019

Whelp, you're making the argument that stopping suddenly is equivalent to hitting an object.

Hitting an object that brings the car to an instant stop is objectively not the same as stopping the car with the brakes. Request denied.

steve | 25 October, 2019

The car was nowhere near hitting anything, idiot.

andy.connor.e | 25 October, 2019

"She has bruises on her shoulder and has probably injured her back because of this sudden and unexpected stop (which is really no different than running into a wall unexpectedly)."

idiot

andy.connor.e | 25 October, 2019

Having the brakes stop the car is no different from running into a wall i guess.

NKYTA | 25 October, 2019

"when suddenly the car SLAMMED ON THE BRAKES and stopped the car to a complete standstill"

over what distance? If it was greater than zero feet, it was NOT like running into a wall.

steve | 25 October, 2019

Wow. You are a bunch of children with your parent's Tesla account I guess...

steve | 25 October, 2019

UPDATE: I somehow overlooked it before, but the Automated Emergency Braking feature can be disabled in the UI under "Auto Pilot". Problem solved. You trolls can go lobby Tesla now to make the feature impossible to defeat. Have fun.

TabascoGuy | 25 October, 2019

Steve,
Serious question here. Are you really saying that you believe that slamming on the brakes in any car is the same thing as running into a wall?

andy.connor.e | 25 October, 2019

+10 @TobascoGuy

Thats what me and @NKYTA are saying. But apparently we are trolls. haha

PrescottRichard | 25 October, 2019

Here’s a quote from page 94 the manual I have. My understanding is the car will not stop on its own, but feel free to interpret it yourself-

Automatic Emergency Braking

The forward looking camera(s) and the radar sensor are designed to determine the distance from an object (vehicle, motorcycle, bicycle, or pedestrian) traveling in front of Model S. When a frontal collision is considered unavoidable, Automatic Emergency Braking is designed to apply the brakes to reduce the severity of the impact.

When Automatic Emergency Braking applies the brakes, the instrument panel displays a visual warning and sounds a chime. You may also notice abrupt downward movement of the brake pedal. The brake lights turn on to alert other road users that you are slowing down.

If driving 29 mph (46 km/h) or faster, the brakes are released after Automatic Emergency Braking has reduced your driving speed by 25 mph (40 km/h). For example, if Automatic Emergency Braking applies braking when driving 56 mph (90 km/h), it releases the brakes when your speed has been reduced to 31 mph (50 km/h).

Automatic Emergency Braking operates only when driving between approximately 7 mph (10 km/h) and 90 mph (150 km/h).

Automatic Emergency Braking does not apply the brakes, or stops applying the brakes, when:

• You turn the steering wheel sharply. • You press and release the brake pedal while Automatic Emergency Braking is applying the brakes. • You accelerate hard (the pressure on the accelerator pedal increases from below 90% to above 90%) while Automatic Emergency Braking is applying the brakes. • The vehicle, motorcycle, bicycle, or pedestrian is no longer detected ahead.

Automatic Emergency Braking is always enabled when you start Model S. To disable it (in addition to disabling Pedal Misapplication Mitigation) for your current drive, touch Controls > Settings > Driver Assistance > Automatic Emergency Braking > Disable.

Warning: Disabling Automatic Emergency Braking also disables Pedal Misapplication Mitigation.

Warning: It is strongly recommended that you do not disable Automatic Emergency Braking. If you disable it, Model S does not automatically apply the brakes in situations where a collision is considered likely.

Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking is designed to reduce the severity of an impact. It is not designed to avoid a collision.

Warning: Several factors can affect the performance of Automatic Emergency Braking, causing either no braking or inappropriate or untimely braking. It is the driver's responsibility to drive safely and remain in control of the vehicle at all times. Never depend on Automatic Emergency Braking to avoid or reduce the impact of a collision.

Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking is designed to reduce the impact of frontal collisions only and does not function when Model S is in Reverse.

Warning: Automatic Emergency Braking is not a substitute for maintaining a safe traveling distance between you and the vehicle in front of you.

Warning: The brake pedal moves downward abruptly during automatic braking events. Always ensure that the brake pedal can move freely. Do not place material under or on top of the Tesla-

Collision Avoidance Assi

steve | 25 October, 2019

@PrescottRichard -- The car definitely came to a complete stop on its own. The car in front had "pumped" its brakes and my wife, seeing what was happening, slowed down quickly, then let off the brakes after she saw that the car in front was moving again and THEN the car applied the brakes at full and came to a *complete* stop (in the middle of I395 during rush hour).

PrescottRichard | 25 October, 2019

Don’t know what to tell you then. That’s not how it works according to the manual. Time to get it checked out.

steve | 25 October, 2019

Well, from your copy from the manual, there's this:

"Warning: Several factors can affect the performance of Automatic Emergency Braking, causing either no braking or inappropriate or untimely braking."

So uh, yeah, I guess we were... warned.

My advice: turn this thing off unless you have really slow reflexes...

FISHEV | 25 October, 2019

"Wow. You are a bunch of children..."@Steve

Apologies from the rest of us. You are getting the typical owner's first post response from a small group who attack other owners for wanting to talk about issues they have with the car. The guy calling you names above doesn't even own a Tesla.

From what you describe the autobrake system is malfunctioning. If you have the date/time of the incident Tesla can look at it and so can if you had the flash drive recording the cameras.

Autobrake should only come one when you are going to hit the car if the brakes don't come on. Car takes over and prevents the crash. If it did substantially ahead of hitting the other car, something is wrong. The tapes will let Tesla know what was that distance. Might be other logs that show that as Tesla does have radar in the front and that may have some log somewhere also.

I'd have them check as maybe in your car the auto braking is set to sensitive.

Things that work great in other cars are funky in the Tesla. Adaptive cruise and its random braking. Lane Keeping and it's 50/50 lack of consistency, blind side indicators that don't are examples. Mostly due to trying make FSD work and it has a negative impact on basic AP.

So have Tesla check out the auto brakes settings. A hard panic stop like that at even low speed can cause injury.

TabascoGuy | 26 October, 2019

@andy,

Yup, seeing as OP dismissed both of your responses, I figured I'd ask again.

@Steve,

Seems that you are new here. Here's some unsolicited advice. When you post hysterical and outrageous claims here, you have to expect some push-back from longtime members. NKYTA and Andy are such and their statements and opinions can be trusted.

FishEV is always wrong.

andy.connor.e | 26 October, 2019

@Steve

Didnt mean to make you think people are trolls here, but when i read your post in parenthesis you were saying slamming on the brakes was not any different from hitting a wall. Thats objectively not true for every car on the road, but its clear based on your responses that you dont really care that you said that. It is what it is, but it looks like you've found a solution to the real question you had.

EVRider | 26 October, 2019

Note that you have to disable AEB at the start of each drive, you can’t disable it permanently.

Frank99 | 27 October, 2019

Steve -
Coming to a complete stop is not expected behavior for AEB. Hard braking to a complete stop can happen on Autopilot if the car believes there's an obstruction ahead - but if your wife had touched the brakes, Autopilot should have been disengaged. I would strongly recommend an SC visit to have them pull the logs and tell you what happened, because AEB shouldn't do this.

As to the response you got, I apologize for the sharp negative replies you received. But, it's fairly common here to get posts from unknown members with outrageous claims that defy reality, who then disappear. To the regulars here, these kinds of posts appear like an astroturfing campaign to:
1. Spread negative stories about Tesla on a reasonably authoritative site. "Tell a lie loud enough and long enough, and it takes on the ring of truth". Your story had a number of hallmarks of this kind of post, which is what I think set Andy off.
2. Create really negative vibes on a vibrant community of Tesla enthusiasts, making Tesla appear less attractive to those looking for information about it. Unfortunately, not all members here understand this point, so they respond to what appear to be #1 posts in a way that creates the negative atmosphere that the astroturfers desire.

Your story sounds a bit hyperbolic when you discuss the injuries to your wife - I'm not an emergency room trauma specialist, so things like shoulder bruises and back injuries sound excessive for a 1.2G braking event (Motor Trend's best braking test results), in my opinion and likely that of others. This would compare with something like a 6G event for a Model 3 running into a wall at 40 mph (IIHS/NHTSA test results), where deep seat belt bruising and occasional broken bones might be expected. I don't know you, but I'm willing to believe that you're truthfully reporting her injuries. I'd like to say, for the majority of the Tesla community, that we hope she recovers quickly, and the reason for the unexpected braking is found and fixed.

steve | 28 October, 2019

@FISH -- I sorta assumed the trolls were not owners. I've owned three, by the way, and I've loved them all, and I have TSLA in my portfolio, and I've taken one factory tour and auctioned off another one.

@Frank99 -- The car indeed came to a complete stop, which was unexpected for both the driver and the cars behind her. Just for fun, try slamming on your brakes as hard as you can at about 30mph with a passenger in the car without warning them. Then ask them if the experience was painless.

andy.connor.e | 29 October, 2019

Its probably not painless, but its certainly not the same as: "not any different from hitting a wall".

The two are absolutely not equivalent. Yet its cute you keep ignoring us who keep telling you this.

reed_lewis | 29 October, 2019

There is absolutely no way a car can go from 30 to 0 MPH in the same distance that hitting a wall would be by itself. The traction that the tires have is simply not sufficient.

Was she using autopilot?

But I guess the bottom line is that it looks like your car has a defect and a service appointment should be made. I do not think that the system as designed is defective. I do think that your car is defective though. Big difference.

Your attitude reeks of a troll. That is why you were attacked by other owners.

FISHEV | 29 October, 2019

"Coming to a complete stop is not expected behavior for AEB."@Frank99

It absolutely is the expected behavior of Automatic Emergency Braking. The test for the system to get a "Superior" rating by iihs.org is to come to a complete stop and no collision in all situations under 25 mph.

Over that speed it should also deploy but due to car's speed and AEB;s short range of detection, to mitigate the consequences of a collision.

In this case, based on description, AEB malfunctioned and injuries resulted. AEB is a full bore panic STOP.

Frank99 | 29 October, 2019

Fishy -
Are you discussing IIHS's expectations for a "superior" AEB implementation, or are you discussing the expectations that Tesla sets for it's AEB implementation? The Owners Manual states "At best, (AEB) can minimize the impact of a frontal collision by attempting to reduce your driving speed". That said, IIHS testing gives Tesla an "Advanced" rating (basically a 'B'), below several other vehicles that received the "Superior" rating ('A').
https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/performance-of-pedestrian-crash-prevent...

In either case, the OP was discussing a braking event where the braking itself caused the injury, not running into something because of AEB, so let's not get too far off topic.

TeslaTap.com | 29 October, 2019

One thing lost of this discussion - if you press the brake, my understanding is AEB is disabled. It assumes you know what you are doing.

My guess is the car was closing quickly on the car in front, and while the brake was applied, no AEB occurred, but when it was released, and the close rate was still too fast (or what it thought was a fast close rate), AEB kicked in. If you had left your foot on the brake until stopped or until the car moved away, the AEB event should have never occurred. This is not to say that AEB is perfect either. This case seems like a bit out an outlier, but ideally could be better handled by AEB. @Steve - any chance you have a dashcam video? It might show you more about what happened and the timing.

Since the car was brought to a stop, it sounds like you were traveling at less than 25 mph when you released the brake pedal, as, above that speed, it will not come to a complete stop.

steve | 29 October, 2019

@TeslaTap -- My wife probably did not have the brakes when AEB deployed because the car in front of her "pumped" is brakes, caused her to hit hers, then let off when she noticed the car in front of her was going again, and THEN the car brought the car to a panic stop.

@reed -- I was using an analogy, and didn't get the wording exactly right. To answer your question, no, she was not using the autopilot.

For all: I think the people unconditionally defending this functionality should note that *Tesla* does no such thing, as PrescottRichard pointed out in the manual:

"Warning: Several factors can affect the performance of Automatic Emergency Braking, causing either no braking or **inappropriate or untimely braking**. " (emphasis added)

Basically Tesla is saying here, "yeah, that happens, sorry". So I suspect my car is in perfect working order, and this is exactly what it is programmed to do. I also suspect that this situation, while rare, will probably happen from time to time, and will probably eventually cause a rear-end accident unless they change the software to account for this scenario, which I hope they will do.

And yes, as somebody point out, this functionality must be disabled every single time you get in the car.

EVRider | 30 October, 2019

@steve: You said your wife wasn’t using AP — can you confirm that you meant she wasn’t using either TACC or Autosteer? Some people don’t consider TACC to be AP, but TACC will brake if the car thinks it needs to.

Like others have said, AEB isn’t designed to bring your car to a complete stop at highway speeds, so there could be a hardware issue with your car if your wife wasn’t using TACC (despite what you were told by service). Also, note that when AEB kicks in, it displays a message on the dash display — did your wife notice any message?

steve | 30 October, 2019

She wasn't uising TACC or Autosteer, no.

Others have said the system is designed to do *exactly* that. Intuitively, if the car thought it was going to hit something stationary, it would make sense it that it would completely stop the car...

Frank99 | 30 October, 2019

I think I'll agree with Fish on this one, and say I'm wrong.

AEB should indeed completely stop the car. Tesla's Owners Manual statement is simply a reminder that it can't do so in all, or perhaps even in most, situations; that you should only rely on it to reduce the severity of an accident. Relying on AEB to prevent an accident would be an unfortunate choice. So, IMHO, it is indeed possible that it was AEB that activated and brought your wife to a full and complete stop in a scenario something like TeslaTap describes.

I'll also say that what happened appears to be extremely rare - the first mention of such an event on these forums that I'm aware of. There are reports of AP or TACC having unexpected braking events (I've had a few), but they tend to be normal braking levels, not panic braking, and normally of short duration ( a second or two) before the system realizes its error.

andy.connor.e | 30 October, 2019

First time i've ever heard of a braking incident that caused injuries that were not any different from crashing into a wall.

steve | 30 October, 2019

@Frank99 -- To get a little technical here (I'm an engineer by trade), what I suspect happened here is that the car in front of ours slammed on his brakes and the car surmised that, at that rate of deceleration, it would be stopped in a few seconds, and thus our car should stop as well.

A person, on the other hand, is able to see the whole context, and see that the car in front had a clear pathway forward and would probably let off the brakes quickly (and that punching the brakes in a panic is something us humans do).

You have probably been behind somebody who has done this many times if you've driven for a long time. Your response is to slow the car down, but only in a way that assumes that the car in front will keep going after an initial jab at the brakes.

For that matter, if you want somebody to rear-end you every time, jab the brakes, let off, and then brake heavily again to a complete stop.

jimglas | 30 October, 2019

also, the radar on your car can see two cars ahead and respond to that vehicles behavior, before the drive in front of you does.

TeslaTap.com | 30 October, 2019

And one more thought - Tesla's AEB is similar to all other car's AEB. None of these systems are perfect, but they can save you a very costly accident or reduce the severity. If someone is following you so closely to rear-end you, that may happen regardless of AEB. Perhaps since AEB is standard on many new cars, it is one more reason not to tailgate! Not saying anyone here tailgates :)