Enhanced Auto Pilot (HW 2.5) - no love

Enhanced Auto Pilot (HW 2.5) - no love

So are Enhanced Auto Pilot HW 2.5 owners who paid the $5000 or $5500 in 2018/2019 going to get any love from Elon? As the economy goes to poop, any plans to offer an incentive to those early adopters maybe a year from now? What will happen to HW 3.0 cards when everyone upgrades to HW 3.5 or HW 4.0... will we have a resale market upgrade HW 2.5 guys to new to them cards via a DIY install?

I’m still rocking my iphone 7 plus that I got new in 2016, so i have no issue with using older tech... just would like the ability to upgrade in the future once everyone is tired of HW 3.0 and a new latest and greatest comes on the block.

gmr6415 | 1 April, 2020

You can purchase the new chip anytime you want. It's just packaged in a new car.

Magic 8 Ball | 1 April, 2020

Looks like we have a new troll.

gmr6415 | 1 April, 2020

Don't know if this is true or not...can't find an EM tweet to support it.

"Elon Musk has promised owners of older Tesla cars will get access to an upgraded custom chip which he claims will provide the hardware required for eventual full-self-driving functions."

"Any Tesla fitted with Autopilot Hardware 2+, cars sold after October 2016, will be eligible for the upgraded chip and if you paid for the full self-driving option you should get the chip for free, said his Muskiness."

"The announcement, if that's what it is, came in a tweeted reply from Elon Musk that the upgrade will come: "End of Q4, most likely."

Lonestar10_1999 | 1 April, 2020

@fazman- your IPhone 7 is a good analogy to the M3 or any Tesla vehicle for that matter.

Remember back in 2016 when folks were lined up at Tesla showrooms before normal business hours just to be the first to make a $1000 reservation?

Remember back when Steve Jobs would reveal the new IPhone and folks would camp outside the Apple store?

The high tech features quickly lose their luster as technology gets faster, cheaper, better. However, if you bought the product for practical reasons, then it still holds value to you. The FSD feature can always be added to the M3 which should help buoy its resale value. Of course, the HW3 is just one component of FSD. What happens when other hardware becomes obsolete compared to newer models being unveiled by Tesla? The M3 could look like the Wright Brothers plane compared to a Lear jet.

Bottom line, enjoy your M3 for yourself, not for what it’s worth to some unknown next buyer. Hopefully you feel your M3 is a good value.

andy.connor.e | 1 April, 2020

What kind of incentives are you looking for? Features were added and if one chose to purchase the feature then that transaction is history. Why are you asking if people who spent money to a company should get "incentives"? Are you looking to receive something for free?

andy.connor.e | 1 April, 2020

Also not sure why you are relating EAP and Hardware version as the hardware version is relative to full self driving.

Magic 8 Ball | 1 April, 2020

Yes he is an early adopter dontcha know ;)

Lonestar10_1999 | 1 April, 2020

Early adopters got an incentive. They got to be the first on their block to have an M3. Making neighbors envious, you can’t put a dollar figure on that.

fazman | 1 April, 2020

troll... no, however i am a newbie to EVs

I got the car because i got FUSC for life with the P3D+

Why I care, it doesn't seem like a good way to extract money from customers when you look at the costs:
$5500 (EAP) + $4000 (FSD) +

It almost seems like a very expensive subscription plan of a service but not sold as one. I don't need to be the cool kid on the block with the latest toy. But I have no issue to DIY stuff myself and at a better value from a junk yard or ebay/part out. Todays fancy new toy is tommorrows beater ride.

fazman | 1 April, 2020

it truncated the text after the second plus sign... what i typed was " + whatever annual feature upgrade fee"

Magic 8 Ball | 1 April, 2020

You have presented what you are about in other threads and your beef is not an EV beef. You are upset that they do not offer what you think they should offer and now you think you have some entitlement to get more because you think you are an "early adopter".

Tesla will give you lots of love by giving you many free OTA updates that improve the features that you actually pay for.

lbowroom | 1 April, 2020

So EAP was $5000. Now you can upgrade to FSD for $4000. People who have AP can pay $7000 to get FSD. Either path will get you HW3.

What's your question?

M3phan | 1 April, 2020

@faz, you had an opportunity a year ago to get fsd for $2K. Then after that for $3K. As an early M3 adopter with EAP I jumped on that $2K fire sale and now have glorious cones spitting out all over my screen. Just pay for the upgrade if you want it. FYI, I can’t see the retrofit being a DIY project. Maybe, but I can’t see it.

howard | 1 April, 2020

M3phan. I jumped on that $2K fire sale

+1 the best thing I have gotten out of this forum was the heads up.

M3phan | 1 April, 2020

For sure

sheldon.mike1010 | 1 April, 2020

Well, if you purchased FSD when you got the car or took advantage of a sale on it,
true to Elon's word, a HW3 will be given to you FREE OF CHARGE.
Can't beat that with a stick. Love mine.

spuzzz123 | 2 April, 2020

Look, you got EAP. That gets you summon and nav on auto. Summon still has a long way to go, but once it’s complete you will get that, and then you got exactly what you paid for. I bought mine the same way mostly because I wanted tacc and autosteer which at the time was only available with EAP. I couldn’t imagine having bought a tesla without those two things. Man, we’re early adopters. In 15 more years all these features are going to be amazing, and common, and much much cheaper. You could be super cautious, drive a corolla until then, and then decide to dip your toe in the pool. I dove in head first, with no lifeguard on duty and I love every minute of it.

derotam | 2 April, 2020

@fazman: So first, I don't think putting in HW3 could be a DIY. I don't know if just having the computer would even allow for any updates without Tesla knowing what vehicle the computer is connected too... In any case, even IF you were able to DIY a HW3 install, what do you think it is going to give YOU, when you only have EAP? EAP could possibly make EAP functions better or more efficient but you the user I don't think would be able to tell the difference.

Unless you get this point, I don't think HW3 would do anything.... You should have paid the $2k during the fire sale!

M3phan | 2 April, 2020

Knowing that they’ve got bored coolant to replace along was doing a computer transfer of settings and camera and computer calibrations, yeah, this doesn’t seem like a DIY kind of thing

M3phan | 2 April, 2020

Along was-along with

billtphotoman | 2 April, 2020

My early(ish) adopter incentive was I got to enjoy the car for an extra 18 months. That is priceless to me, especially right now when we are on lockdown.

andy.connor.e | 2 April, 2020

So far 21 comments and fazman has not followed up. gotta stir the pot???

Joshan | 2 April, 2020

andy.connor.e | April 2, 2020
So far 21 comments and fazman has not followed up. gotta stir the pot???

Ya when the bowl is just about cashed a good stir can.... oh wait wrong forum.

FISHEV | 2 April, 2020

@ Joshan | April 2, 2020 andy.connor.e | April 2, 2020 So far 21 comments and fazman has not followed up. gotta stir the pot??? Ya when the bowl is just about cashed a good stir can.... oh wait wrong forum.

You stir the pot by complaining others are stirring the pot.

Not everybody is on the forums 24/7 like you two, stirring the pot with no content posts about stirring the pot.

andy.connor.e | 2 April, 2020

i guess the new tactic is to invalidate people since he has too long of a history of not actually knowing anything.

Magic 8 Ball | 2 April, 2020


FISHEV hates Tesla and EVs.

fazman | 2 April, 2020

I think its great you paid the fire sale price of $2000 or $3000. I do not see the benefit today of HW 3 cones flying at you at that price. When HW 15 is out, and HW 3 is in the trash as a relic... I would like to DIY a PnP card myself is my point. Not sure why everyone on this forum always likes to twist around the meaning of something so straight forward / obvious / direct / to the point.

If i go to a junk yard at some point in the future with someones wrecked M3 that some how is not useable... I see no reason why I couldn't pull the part I want and toss it in my car for $20 is the point. I don't have an interest in FSD till its fully baked. I don't even use summon today even tho my car has it.

I actually find it annoying that I need to enable summon to be able to use homelink from my app... so that is yet another feature i don't use (Homelink from my app). No reason that feature has to be tied into summon rather than as a stand alone feature in the tesla app.

andy.connor.e | 2 April, 2020

Looks like it happened again here. Theres a very visible pattern going on.

Magic 8 Ball | 2 April, 2020

You made your bed with: "incentive to those early adopters".

It comes across that you want special treatment because you think of yourself as an early adopter but it comes across as an insult to those that were actually early adopters.

fazman | 2 April, 2020

The one thing I see coming down the pipe is an annual upgrade path at a cost of thousands per year. This doesn't make sense to be honest.

2018 EAP fee
2019 FSD fee
2020 HW 3.5 fee
2021 HW 4 fee
2022 Your car is too old... go buy a new tesla for HW 4.5 (creating lots of e waste)

Magic 8 Ball | 2 April, 2020

So now you are leveraging your initial statement to become FUD, smooth.

fazman | 2 April, 2020

@magic i have no issue with early adopters.

I have no issues today with new features....

I just want to be able to DIY my own upgrade, these cars are not that complicated as people make them out to be. I have done the femont factory tour... its not that crazy to tear down an EV. These cars have a skateboard layout and as long as you are not messing with the battery or motor... everything else is pretty easy.

If a service center is learning to do the retrofit and it takes them 4h to do it... at home your real world time should be about 45 mins top. The service centers make you wait to get checked in. The service centers park the car for a while till a service guy is ready to work on it. They need to do the labor. Then wait for the software to download/install/reset (no labor at this step). Then button it up.

I do not need or want anything today... just saying it would be nice to do this as a DIY down the road when people have moved on to the next shiny gizmo.

lbowroom | 2 April, 2020

I would like to drop a new graphics card into my Pentium 90.

fazman | 2 April, 2020

i go back to the XT days with MFM hard drives on RLL controllers to get better compression

Magic 8 Ball | 2 April, 2020

@fazman I have been here a couple of years and have read dozens of posts like yours. The OPs all wanted special treatment because they felt they were an early adopter. Had you left early adopter out of your post I would have left you alone but trying to give yourself early adopter status stinks of entitlement.

I get you want to be a DIY person and that may come but you are bitching that it does not appear to be on the horizon.

You then go on to project and create rumor about HW versions and fees, that is FUD pure and simple.

So if you just would stick to "nice to have" instead of making up BULLSHIT, you would be good.

fazman | 2 April, 2020

@magic its not FUD... just hope its not a trend. Have you seen those early adopters with FSD paid for on the early model S. Its pretty much abandoned for them to get it. Hardware and tech moves forward, I paid a fee to get a product that was baked (EAP)... not looking to chase good money after something not worth while yet (FSD)...

I would rather let other folks get fire sale deals today, lock up those funds and the opportunity cost today... let them learn with the beta software till the bugs work out and pay full price for the finished product (Even then i could get one gen older stuff at a much cheaper price with more stable/tried and true software).

Realistically what will probably happen is the HW 3 card will evolve with numerious iterations as the FSD product gets baked. even if I was handed a HW 3 card today... i would rather wait to get a HW 3 card in 2021 that is more "fully baked". Let the people who need to make instagram / youtube videos / influencers do their thing today, I want something much afterwards (I can patently wait). My two hands and two feet have done a great job at FSD for over 1M+ miles in my driving career with mostly all stick shift cars.

Magic 8 Ball | 2 April, 2020

Okay boomer. Please provide link to Tesla announcement of the hardware versions you list and the fees.

fazman | 2 April, 2020

@magic If your definition of entitlement is value minded and responsible, than this is the right term for me.

Magic 8 Ball | 2 April, 2020

Thinking of yourself as an early adopter and being entitled to something because you think of yourself as someone who should get something more because of that is the definition in your case.

fazman | 2 April, 2020

@magic Can you prove that my statement is not true, the version numbers i gave were for illustrative purposes. You did understand the intent that was described. I did cite a fact that AP1 and AP2 FSD buyers have been abandoned (given enough time it makes sense because the architecture had changed).

Without all the investment from the original roadster folks you would not have a Model S. Without Model S buyers you would not have a Model X. With out the Model S/X buyers you would not have a Model 3... so on and so forth.

fazman | 2 April, 2020

@magic evryone who buys any new product off the shelf is an "early adopter". Many people buy new stuff all the time. Without new buyers, you couldn't have a used market...

Magic 8 Ball | 2 April, 2020

You make the claim you provide the proof. Putting up BULLSHIT and then asking others to prove it wrong is very troll like.

You seem to understand that not everything is upgradeable and there never have been any claims by Tesla that would be the case.

You are trying to define "early adopter" to suit your narrative. Not everyone agrees with your definition. It is an old trolling technique to project your own definitions as some sort of universally accepted definition. But to have some fun the Model 3 has been out for a couple of years now give it your best shot on the cutoff date you defined as being an early adopter, waiting with interest.

bjrosen | 2 April, 2020

The whole point of a new computer is that it can do things that the old computer can't. In the case of HW 2.5 to HW3 the jump was massive, it's a completely different architecture and it's 20X faster. That kind of jump won't happen again, HW4 will be 2-3 times faster than HW3 and it will be based on the same architecture. However the whole point of a new computer is to add capabilities that the old one wasn't capable of. When HW4 comes out I'd bet that Tesla sells it with something called FSD+ or Super FSD. For a while FSD and FSD+ will be the same but eventually they will diverge and the new features will only be available on HW4. At that time the chances are that Tesla will offer an FSD+ upgrade to FSD owners just as they've offered an FSD upgrade to EAP owners. There is nothing wrong with this, it's the only way to make progress. The really great thing is that they offer an upgrade path that doesn't involve buying a new car. 2016 model year Chevy's didn't have Android Auto, 2017 model year Chevy's did. If you had a 2016 and wanted Android Auto Chevy had a solution for you, trade in your 2016 for a 2017. That's universally true for every car manufacturer except Tesla. That's true for phones also, if you want Android 11 on a Pixel 1 or a Nexus 6 Google's solution is for you to buy a Pixel 4.

fazman | 2 April, 2020

@bjrosen Thank you for a fair comment/reply... i agree with ya for the most part.

Only item i would add an asterisk too with your statement is... ever since I have been alive people have been modding and retrofitting newer stuff on to older cars. You even see people taking retro classic cars and converting them into EV's today. In the past people swap in a new headunit and you got the latestest and greatest features of OEM cars. You plug in an aftermarket alarm and got cool features that never existed by your OEM like automatic headlights in 1990's cars via a Viper car alarm because it had a light sensor and could trigger the headlight anyways.

Today tesla is the only allowed modder, but once the factory warranty expires and any extended warranties like the battery... it would be neat to tinker with the platform. I could imagine retrofitting a Model G performance with 15 motors modules into my legacy P3D+ to make it more relevant or maybe I could load my own software to drive the HW 2.5 card to do cool stuff that the latest and greatest HW X.x can't do.

In reality tho, we will need to over come the poor resolution cameras and retrofit better sensors to cars to enable greater detection. The tipping point will come when we actually have wireless power roads that have their own addressable IP. Charging the cars as we drive and park (no more super chargers). Every object will have an IP and be transmitting "Hey... I'm an OBJECT_NAME and my this is my LOCATION and this is how you can interact with me". Probably won't happen till 6G or 7G time frame