Comparing Model 3 to Chevy Bolt is as ridiculous as comparing your iPhone to a microwave simply because both got a timer and can tell time. Here's my take on this and who the real competitor of the Model 3 really is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooRXHgybkmQ&index=2&list=PLXAbfWOvf5Yt5z...
You mean Bolt, right?
The headline says "Volt," a different type of car.
For real people, I think the Volt, the Bolt, the Prius, the Model 3 are all in competition. They're roughly the same price (Prius cheaper), and they all have a level of green cred. I think there's little doubt that when the Model 3 gets into full production, it'll shoot way ahead of everything else (HEV, PHEV, BEV, FCEV) and stay there for at least a year just based on the reservation backlog.
IMHO, given a choice between a Volt, a Bolt, a Prius, a Model 3, I'd probably rank them as:
Yes, bolt, my bad
stop expecting the model 3 at 1/2 the cost to be a mini model s with the same options just slightly smaller. lol
I agree. But I think some people would actually rate the Prius higher than some of the others because of it's no-hassle long-range ability, excellent reliability history, decent resale value and hatchback / storage capability.
Yeah, but it just screams "Dull". Except, of course, for the 2016 that looked like a mother in a mid-life crisis trying to look like her daughter's teen aged friends.
I normally ignore the appearance of a vehicle, and highly value the reliability that the Prius has demonstrated, and don't normally associate Chevy with the same level of reliability, but I'd take the Volt or the Bolt over the Prius for reasons that aren't entirely clear to me.
People who are "car people" do care about the appearance and Prius is considered to be one of the ugliest cars ever made. Bolt is not that far from it either. That's my whole point. These two cars are targeting two completely different types of people and driving experiences.
Not so much comparison as contrast. There is a LOT of contrast.
kidalex - not all "car people" care about appearance, nor do they all consider it one of the ugliest cars ever made. Be a man, own up to your opinions and say "I".
for plug in hybrids, the volt has a longer electric range, but after that, the Prius is a better hybrid. The new body style is so odd though! I'd have to give it to the Volt for looks. The plug in hybrids definitely have a place though for those that want electric and want to drive.
People should be able to compare any car to any other car. Why do we need comparison police? Everyone has different criteria when selecting a car, and for many people the criteria will narrow their choices down to the Bolt and Model 3 (BEV, 150+ mile range, under $50k). Is it such a sin to then proceed to compare the two cars that fit the bill? Other people will have other criteria for comparison, which will result in a different short list. But it's not up to me to tell them what to compare.
Maybe you just meant don't equate the two. As long as a comparison is unbiased I don't see the harm.
Heck, I don't even care if the comparison is unbiased - as long as it isn't deceitful.
"Stop comparing Model 3 to Chevy Bolt"
Then why is the lead in to your video all about comparing the Model 3 to a Bolt? And text in the background that says:
"Tesla Model 3 vs Chevy Bolt"
They have commonalities. They have differences. End of line.
It's a free country. People talk about stuff. You can't just stomp your feet to censor them. End of line.
Of course we can censor. Owners have the (flag) power. Trolls and Astroturfers have none.
Owners were given the flag power because this is an unmoderated forum. As a way to keep spam and trolls from polluting the place. Don't like it, go to TMC. Until you get banned there. oops.
Lol. That was funny @KP. But true.
Read all about it in this thread: why you should buy any Tesla.
It is totally legit to compare Model 3 and Bolt. It is like comparing an iphone to an android phone.
Android purports to be as good as iphone and more 'open.' Iphone uses a walled garden for apps.
The analogy to fast charging infrastructure, which is the main difference in utility between model 3 and Bolt.
PS. A model 3 (or a Bolt) are not PHEVs.
You can certainly compare them, but it's not Apple vs Android--it's Apple vs landline. If I had a Bolt, it would be tethered to my small town. Tesla, not so much.
I get your point Bighorn but i have an android, because issued by work, and i hate it, and envy my wife's iphone.
Thats the model 3 vs bolt comparison... the bolt will kind of do the same thing but in a much less pleasing way
Although I want all electric vehicles to be successful, I could never buy one from a traditional manufacturer because it would be subsidizing their other, oversized, inefficient models, and it helps delay the inevitable change to better technology.
"Although I want all electric vehicles to be successful, I could never buy one from a traditional manufacturer because it would be subsidizing their other, oversized, inefficient models, and it helps delay the inevitable change to better technology."
It's more complicated than that. Tesla itself has no problem subsidizing ICE cars buy selling GM and other companies ZEV credits:
Quite the opposite Carl. That is the polluters subsidizing Tesla.
"Quite the opposite Carl. That is the polluters subsidizing Tesla."
It's both. The polluters find it cheaper to buy the credits from Tesla than to actually build, market and sell more EVs. So Tesla is helping them save money while also helping themselves make money. The only people who lose from the arrangement are those who want a cleaner planet. (I.e., I'd rather the big carmakers be forced to build as many EVs as possible.)
"It's both. The polluters find it cheaper to buy the credits from Tesla than to actually build, market and sell more EVs. So Tesla is helping them save money while also helping themselves make money. The only people who lose from the arrangement are those who want a cleaner planet. (I.e., I'd rather the big carmakers be forced to build as many EVs as possible.)"
You could also look at it as Tesla wouldn't have been as successful and disruptive without them. Or at least early on. Now, from what I understand, the credits are scraps on the table. So "the people" may lose short term but long term will end up ahead.
"So 'the people' may lose short term but long term will end up ahead."
Rationalized quite well! (Yes, that was sarcasm.)
I certainly thought so. If it gets us to the tipping point where ICEV's are no longer the vehicle of choice sooner, we all win. Ultimately those trucks will end up in the junk yard.
Carl the whole point of zev credits is the dynamic described by dyefrog.
The time has come to save our sphere. To pay the rent, to do our share.
@Civicrick, how appropriate, performed by "Midnight Oil"... :) :)
Found a cd I had burned years ago... lol
M3 was made to compete with Audi A4, BMW 3, and Mercedes C. The reality is Teslas appeal to an even wider group so current Camry, Prius, etc., owners will also flock to Model 3. I'm betting the European brands and Toyota will lose the most sales.
Personally I think Bolt is irrelevant since GM is clearly only making enough of them to sell SUVs.
Couldn't agree more Bill! Corporate ethics and responsibility matter!!
I've owned/leased 2 Priuses. If I wanted another long range hybrid for local use, I would buy/lease another again. I wanted a long range EV for local use and I've got that in the Bolt.
I would NEVER consider a hybrid plug-in because the EV range is impractical. Why settle for 20-30 miles of EV range when you can get 200+ out of a pure EV? Makes no sense to me.
Also why buy a 200+ mile EV if you need to drive really LONG distances regularly? That also makes no sense to me.
While you can drive a Tesla really LONG distances with the Supercharger network that network still has it's limitations, such that an ICE or hybrid would be a better (or at least more convenient) choice.
So, if driving really LONG distances was the criteria, I would rank them:
However, if you only need to drive the car locally, ANY of these cars would be suitable -- just pick the one you like best based on cost, features, etc.
On this forum, that choice of course would be Tesla but not necessarily so elsewhere.
This person has obviously never supercharged on a trip with a Tesla.
I drive really long distances and the Model S is ten times the road trip car our Prius was. When we owned them concomitantly, the Tesla always got the nod. Sour grapes don't translate to people who actually got to eat the grapes. Dream on in your Bolt though, if I makes getting out of bed easier for you.
Bighorn, can you elaborate on how The Model S is better for road trips than the Prius? It seems to me the Prius could could go much further in a shorter time with fewer stops than the Model S. You can fuel it everywhere and don't need to plan your trip to make sure you can find a gas station. Plus when driving in the cold and / or using the heater doesn't affect the range or efficiency anywhere near as much in the Prius as in the Model S.
Most of us agree that Teslas are _good enough_ for long trips unlike most EVs. But that's a lot different than being _better_ than an ICE for long trips. (Unless you start factoring in things that have nothing to do with suitability for long trips.)
This should be good. LOL
@Carl you know Bighorn has the most unique supercharger visits in the world, right? What are you up to now @bighorn? 250ish? :)
In a Prius, I'd hesitate to go more than 500 miles a day--way too tiring. In the Tesla, I can drive round the clock and do 1000 miles a day. Much more comfortable to sleep in since it is markedly more spacious. Also great to be able to keep the climate comfortable whether it's minus 25 or 115 degrees--I've slept in both extremes; and not worry about dying from CO poisoning. It's the difference between piloting a rocket ship and a go cart which is why I average well over 30k miles a year. Our Prius had over 200k miles, so it got around, but not so much after the Tesla arrived. And the Prius' efficiency dropped significantly (~18%) in the winter as well, similar to the Tesla.
You have to have driven a Tesla long distance (cross country several times) to appreciate why the Tesla is the most superior road car - regardless EV or ICE.
It is the combination of quiet, smooth, simplicity, reduced stress, and simply driving comfort and response that make the Tesla the road car it is. I very much doubt the Model 3 will really equal the Model S/X for this kind of comfort, but it will have the ability to reduce the stress with AP.
You do get used to stopping ever 150 miles or so and you find you are able to drive longer and remain less tired. As you get older (I am 74) you begin to appreciate that you don't want to drive 1000 miles in 12 hrs. If you can still drive 1000 miles a day, but take longer and be more relaxed at the end, that is enough.
P.S. My cars have been S60 and S75D, therefore, I don't try those 240 mile jaunts.
I agree with the first part of what you said. A Tesla is not better than an ICE for long trips. Yes, we're fans but let's be real, folks.
But I don't agree with the second part where you imply the Bolt is as good as a Tesla for long trips.
It's kind of funny how non-owners can pronounce that a Tesla isn't suitable for long trips despite actual owners telling them otherwise. And that these owners have actually DONE it. More than once. Several times actually. (Constantly in @bighorn's case, just for the heck of it.)
My longest trip so far was about 350 miles, have done it several times, always in winter. But I would not hesitate to drive up and down the coast or cross country in our 70D. It just so happens I fly for free though. :)
A cross country trip in one of our Teslas is on my bucket list. We will do it when we can both take the time off.
"t's kind of funny how non-owners can pronounce that a Tesla isn't suitable for long trips..."
Who said that? Certainly not I.
I was referring to the bird droppings.
If I understand what Eagles is saying (and I may be wrong) he's not saying the Tesla is not capable of long trips either. I think he believes that the Bolt is as good as I Tesla though. (I think most people here would disagree with that, though.)
I was referring to this: "Tesla or the Bolt which have similar range. EV's just take a lot for long distance drives. Can be done but only under extraordinary circumstance."
Capable and suitable are very different things. And yes, lumping the Tesla in with the Bolt when the bolt charging is half as fast is disingenuous. Especially coming from someone who has never owned (and lets face it, never will own) a Tesla. I guess his argument is true for non-telsa EVs because of their lack of a supercharger network. I would never attempt a cross country trip in a Bolt. Is it capable? Yes. But it would be a nightmare.
A reminder. Tesla builds premium automobiles. They tend to use the terms 'affordable' or 'more affordable' when referring to the upcoming Model ☰. Just as they refrain from using the word 'luxury' to refer to their own cars, they have not, even once, referred to anything at all regarding Model ☰ as being 'cheap' or 'cheaper'. If you pay close attention though, just about anyone that has ill intentions regarding Tesla will be sure to sneak those terms into their forum commentary and opinion pieces about anything regarding Model ☰ as often as they can get away with. Beware.