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Tesla customer ssrvice-Charging cables

Tesla customer ssrvice-Charging cables

Spoke with customer service today, had some ?s on the M3.

1. He did not think there would be free 400 kwh for M3 owners at superchargers.
2. Confirmed Delivery at store other than your location.
3. Said there are two cables in M3. One for 110 and another for 220. J1772 adapter included.

I asked if he would confirm two separate power cables, said yes two cables.

Anyone heard this?

He was pushing me towards installing a 220 outlet in garage instead of Tesla Wall Connecter.

Carl Thompson | 7 September, 2017

@garyjtate

It's one cable with different plugs that can be attached to it. You can see the different plugs that can be used here:

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-3-nema-ad...

The car should come with at least 5-15 (110v) and 14-50 (240v) plugs.

Carl

KP in NPT | 7 September, 2017

Yeah, I find it hard to believe it's two separate cables. I think something was lost in translation.

Carl Thompson | 7 September, 2017

The 5-15 is the leftmost plug in the picture and will work with a regular wall outlet like you'd use to plug in a lamp. You'll probably never want to use this if you can help it because it will only charge around 3-4 miles per hour. The car should come with this.

The 14-50 plug is the rightmost plug in the picture and will work with a 14-50 outlet which is often found in trailer parts and possibly in your garage. The car should come with this.

The 14-30 plug is the second from the right and may be found in your garage for an electric dryer hookup. This one may not be included with the car.

All of this information I have gleaned from listening to the Tesla owners here. Owners, please correct me if I have gotten any of this wrong.

Carl

ReD eXiLe ms us | 7 September, 2017

I believe the adapters for the Model 3 UMC have umbilical extensions on them. Those would probably be the 'separate cables'. But the UMC itself would probably have a built in cable of a given length.

garyjtate | 7 September, 2017

Carl & KP

I mentioned all that to him but he said M3 will have two cables and the J1772.
Something new?

Frank99 | 7 September, 2017

Likely simply misinformed.

KP in NPT | 7 September, 2017

After your post I looked but couldn't find a picture I saw of the mobile connector in the bag in one of the production cars - somewhere online but my google searches didn't find it.

Really that would make zero sense and wouldn't sound at all like what Tesla would do. So I highly doubt that info is accurate.

Tâm | 7 September, 2017

Older Model S & X design came with an interchangeable plug with no piggy tail.

Newer design for Model 3 has a an interchangeable plug with a long piggy tail.

So people may describe the new plugs as "power cables". Again, they are just new plugs that grow long tails.

@KP in NPT

Here's a production Mobile Connector in its own bag:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/dscn1678_2-large-jpg.244785/

There's NEMA 14-50 plug with a long piggy tail resting nearest toward you to the right.

KP in NPT | 7 September, 2017

Tåm YES that is what I saw. :) so one cord - as I thought.

garyjtate | 8 September, 2017

Thx all for the comments...
One cable makes more sense. This is second occasion that I may have received bad info from Tesla support.
Hope this improves as the clock runs down.

Think i’m going with the 14-50 outlet.... save $500

Mozart | 8 September, 2017

I think the customer service person meant that the M3 comes with 2 pigtail adapter cables, not 2 UMC cables

SUN 2 DRV | 8 September, 2017

ONE long cable from the Mobile Connector to the car and MULTIPLE short cables available to connect from the Mobile Connector to the various standard wall receptacles. Model 3 Mobile Connector comes with cables for 5-15 and 14-50 wall receptacles.

Also note that the Mobile Connector is limited to 32 amps, so there's no major benefit to installing more than a 40 amp circuit unless you also install a Wall Connector or some other form of higher power EVSE.

Carl Thompson | 8 September, 2017

@SUN 2 DRV:
"Also note that the Mobile Connector is limited to 32 amps,"

I think the long range mobile connector will do 40A?

Carl

SUN 2 DRV | 8 September, 2017

"I think the long range mobile connector will do 40A?"

Carl, that's the first I've hear of there being a "long range mobile connector"... do you have a link???

The long range CAR will support 40 amps, but I didn't think the mobile connector will... did I miss something?

TeslaTap.com | 8 September, 2017

I'd also expect the J1772 to support 40 amps, as it does on the S and X, but I have no confirmation of this.

Carl Thompson | 8 September, 2017

@SUN 2 DRV

No, you didn't miss anything. Perhaps I read too much into Tesla's statement that the LR would have a "home charging rate" of 40A. I assumed that meant the UMC they give for charging at home would support it but perhaps that's an incorrect assumption.

Carl

Tâm | 8 September, 2017

@Carl Thompson

Lots of disclaimers in Tesla so we need to find where they are.

It is true that Long Range home charge is 40A but what's the catch?

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-3-nema-ad...

"*The second generation Mobile Connector has a max output of 32 amps when using the 14-50 or 6-50 adapter."

The disclaimer above clearly says in which condition you cannot get 40A but only 32A.

So how can one get 40A?

1) HPWC
2) I assume if you still have older 40A UMC hanging around.

Carl Thompson | 8 September, 2017

@Tâm

Ah, I see. I didn't notice that. So the car can charge at 40A but the UMC they give you won't support that rate. You have to buy a separate piece of equipment (HWPC) to get it. I could see how some people might be annoyed by that if previous versions included with a car purchase were faster.

Carl

JayInJapan | 9 September, 2017

As annoyed as some are with all the misinformation?

Innkeep | 9 September, 2017

@TeslaTap
J1772 adapter supports >40 Amp charging. Worked on 60 and 80 Amp SunCountry chargers in Canada.

KP in NPT | 9 September, 2017

I'm sort of puzzled why they would change the max amps for the gen 2 UMC. Cost? Those with the long range battery will either have to settle for a slower charge than is possible for the car or buy the HPWC.

Model_D | 9 September, 2017

Or one could buy the S/X UMC with a 14-50 for $520 and get 40 amps.

Vikman | 9 September, 2017

@KP so they can push people into getting their HPWC. Very annoying

Tâm | 9 September, 2017

@KP in NPT

My preference is to promote faster charge rate with each year/generation/new design.

However, Tesla seems to prefer the other way around: slower charge with each new design.

It was first reflected in Model X with a mandatory default 48A charger with no other options after the older design of 80A for Model S.

It ignited a controversy which prompted Tesla to do a compromise by providing a secrete way to order 72A charger as an option at that time.

It's a compromise because even with an alternative to slower 42A, 72A is still slower than older Model S 80A.

Now, the controversy has been buried in the past, so even slower charging rate are now introduced with a new design which is for Model 3 at 32A as standard and 40A as Long Range.

And as you now know, 40A is not even available with included free Mobile Connector, so you've got to get HPWC or smuggle in an older design of Model S/X Mobile Connector.

So what are the reasons for getting slower charging rate with each new generation of design?

One obvious one is cost. It's cheaper for production but at the expense of longer time for owners.

Slower charging rate could mean lesser heat which could translate to equipment longevity and savings for warranty.

It's good for investors but I don't think it's a good for science advancement.

KP in NPT | 9 September, 2017

I mean, it likely won't matter (to me) as I'll plug in and charge overnight - if it takes a little longer it won't matter as in the end it will be charged in the morning regardless. We do of course have our Model S UMC but I can't see us bothering to use it for the 3 unless there is some oddball situation where time would matter. In the 2 years we've had our S I can't think of a time we needed a home charge quicker - if we ever did, we'd go to our local supercharger. So far it has not happened.

It feels like Tesla had 3 choices: Stick with the same UMC as the S/X for both long and short range model 3, offer different UMCs for long/short range model 3, or go with a slower UMC for the model 3. Guess they chose door number 3.

garyjtate | 9 September, 2017

Ok screw it, just give me one of everything!

Earl and Nagin ... | 9 September, 2017

@Tâm,
I don't think its a matter of not advancing science. Its a matter of advancing economics too. The Roadster, S, and X have allowed to Tesla to figure out what really matters to people, using people who can afford mistakes of providing unnecessary excesses. With the Model III, Tesla strives to provide what is needed so they can use economy of scale to concentrate on that, not the unnecessary excesses.
Tesla knows exactly how much time all of their Model S cars spend charging. They know full well whether they would have charged fully on 1 kW, 3 kW, 7 kW, 10 kW, or 20 kW. Its a bit silly to just complain about not being able to charge at 80A, 40A, etc with the free charging cable that comes with the car.
FWIW, the free charging cable that came with the Roadster was only a small 120v cable even though the onboard charger could charge at 70 amps. The first mobile charging cables they produced charged at a max of 32 amps and only had a NEMA 14-50 on it. They later came out with their Universal Mobile Connector (UMC) that had interchangeable connectors to enable different kinds of plugs and limiting max current accordingly. The Roadster could not Supercharge. Therefore, faster onboard charging speed was highly desirable, mainly for road trips as we needed to be fully charged in 8 hours at a hotel overnight. Supercharging has totally changed all that.
With the Model S, you've probably witnessed that there has been ongoing experimentation about how much current the free onboard charger should handle. I suspect that after 10 years of making cars, Tesla has a pretty good idea what people need, want, and are willing to pay for so they know how to provide a good value that will keep their customers happy overall.
Personally, I charge most of the time at only 16 amps since I have 2 EVs that need to charge in my garage that only has a 50 Amp breaker. Sometimes I only have one car connected so I up the amps to 32 if I'm going somewhere and need to top of a bit faster. I have a 70 amp Clipper Creek CS100 J-1772 charging station in front of my house that I can use on those rare occasions that I really need to charge faster. In 9 years, I've needed 70 amps for convenience maybe a dozen times.
YMMV
Go Tesla!

Carl Thompson | 9 September, 2017

Three things:
- Lower charge rate of the Model 3's UMC
- Lower supercharger rate
- Much shorter battery warranty

Could mean that Tesla has serious concerns about the longevity / durability of the new batteries.

Carl

Mr.Tesla | 9 September, 2017

Could mean anything or nothing. Mostly likely it means they have to be more concerned with costs associated with a $35k vehicle versus a $100k vehicle. (think long term warranty costs for a mass market car where people may be more inclined to abuse it)

garyjtate | 9 September, 2017

@ Earl
“Sometimes I only have one car connected so I up the amps to 32 if I'm going somewhere and need to top of a bit faster. ”

Upping the amps is done in the car I presume?

N1OY | 9 September, 2017

For what it's worth, about 3 month ago I was informed by Tesla Tech Support that the Model 3 UMC cable has the same part number as the Model S UMC cable.

Frank99 | 9 September, 2017

That doesn't appear to be the case at the moment:
https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x-corde...
https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-3-nema-ad...

It wouldn't surprise me if they did start shipping the Gen 2 UMC with the Model S/X, as it seems to be a better engineered solution. Owners would have to deal with the 20% longer charge time - but those who are concerned with a small change in charge time would probably install an HPWC instead.

I take the lower current capabilities (40A->32A) as a way to reduce the problems they've had with overheating adapters and cables. Perhaps they've found a lot of incidents of badly installed 14-50's with undersized wiring, or something similar.

Earl and Nagin ... | 9 September, 2017

@garyjtate,
you asked "Upping the amps is done in the car I presume?"
Yes, generally. The charging current can be changed from the touchscreens on both the Roadster and the S (and presumably the X but I haven't had an X to worry about). The nice thing is that it remembers the current setting for the location the last time you were there and starts at that current. That way, once I've set it to 16 amps once, every time I come home it charges at 16 amps unless I manually set it else wise.

Tesla2018 | 9 September, 2017

How many miles or range do you get per hour using a 32 amp service as compared to using 40 amps.

Frank99 | 9 September, 2017

32*240V = 7.6 KW. 7.6 KW / 300 wh/mile = 25 mile/hour.
40*240V = 9.6 KW. 9.6 kw / 300 wh/mile = 32 mile/hour.

At 300 wh/mile, 32A would charge at about 25 miles per hour, and 40A would charge at about 32 miles per hour.
To fully charge a completely discharged 75 KWH battery would take about 10 hours at 32A, and about eight hours at 40A.

SUN 2 DRV | 9 September, 2017

Frank wrote: "I take the lower current capabilities (40A->32A) as a way to reduce the problems they've had with overheating adapters and cables."

That's also what I suspect, and it's why I've crusaded for virtually everyone to install a Wall Connector for the last 4 years. A hardwired connection is simply more reliable than a set of thin little adapters in the UMC cable, which have proven to melt and been subject to several recalls. So Tesla redesigned the Mobile Connector, removed the problematic adapters and replaced them with a wide variety of pigtails. Hopefully the connectors are better than the old adapters, and they now only need to support 32 amps vs 40 in the UMC. Another advantage is that the pigtails relieve some of the angular strain that the weight of the UMC used to place on the adapter plug assembly.

But installing a Wall Connector is clearly the best way to avoid all of these concerns and also enables you to charge at the max rate supported by your car and the available circuit. No artificial limitations...

deemo | 9 September, 2017

32A is plenty, especially with more efficient car. I normally charge our Model S at 24A at home and still only need to charge about every 3 days and can get 180 miles in 10 hrs no problem.

david_gelfand | 9 September, 2017

For the M3, does it permit "dial-down" of amperage. When we got our MS, I had our garage wired with 2 NEMA 1450 outlets at 240V, 40A. Could I just reduce the amperage gonig to the car with the diplay screen (like with the MS)?

Frank99 | 9 September, 2017

Yes.

msmith55 | 10 September, 2017

I think the main point is that in cold climates, below freezing, a level 2 charger, 220 V, is needed to heat the battery before charging can begin! A 120 V charger may not provide enough energy, and battery will lose power, even when plugged in!

garyjtate | 10 September, 2017

@SUN 2 DRV

Didn’t realize the melt down problems, sounds like a user fault/abuse? Read that if the UMC was pulled to tight it would shut off. Now I understand why pigtails...

jordanrichard | 10 September, 2017

Keep in mind that just because they are selling these adapters in the accessory section for the Model 3, doesn't mean that the Model 3 won't come with the 3 standard plugs. They sell the J1772, 14-50 and 120V adapters on the accessory page for the Model S and Model X but these cars come with those adapters anyways.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 10 September, 2017

Tâm asked, "So what are the reasons for getting slower charging rate with each new generation of design?"

I suspect it may have to do with regulatory compliance. Some legislators and regulators have been convinced that electric vehicle charging is somehow 'dangerous' per EV Naysayers. So, as a sort of 'belt & suspenders' approach, they have decided to make EVs a bit 'more safe' by limiting the amount of power they can draw from a Class 2 outlet. This has the secondary effect of lowering the perceived/argued convenience factor of owning electric, which makes EV Naysayers happier.

32 ÷ 40 = 0.8 = 80%
32 ÷ 50 = 0.64 = 64%

I believe the first of these changes happened in Canada sometime in 2013 or 2014. Though electronic equipment has generally been allowed to have a draw of 80% of the amperage from a circuit breaker, someone suggested that specifically for electric vehicles, due to the length of time they are connected at a continuous draw, should be lowered to a maximum of 70% for residential applications. The government bought it, and shortly after Tesla released a new, compliant version of the High Power Wall Connector that no longer allowed people to draw 80A from a 100A circuit. Even though the rules hadn't changed in the U.S., Tesla made that change universal.

I sincerely doubt this was done to 'save money' on Tesla's part, beyond making sure they didn't get fined for non-compliance with regulations.

JayInJapan | 10 September, 2017

Didn't the Canadian UMCs move to 32 A a couple of years ago?

ReD eXiLe ms us | 11 September, 2017

JayInJapan: They may have changed the included UMC for Canadians right about the same time that the HPWC was changed. So, around early 2014.

Carl Thompson | 11 September, 2017

@david_gelfand:
"I had our garage wired with 2 NEMA 1450 outlets at 240V, 40A."

This is not my area of expertise but how could that pass inspection?

Carl

finman100 | 11 September, 2017

if separate circuits. with separate 50 amp breakers. with corresponding 6 AWG wire or bigger (for future updates).

Carl Thompson | 11 September, 2017

@finman100

But he said 40A. I'm not sure how a 14-50 outlet would pass inspection with 40A wiring and breaker.

Carl