Requesting feedback on Range. Please provide averages losses vs projected range

Requesting feedback on Range. Please provide averages losses vs projected range

I have S85 and have had it since February, I am one of the first in PA to have one I believe. I absolutely love the car and have been the poster child for promoting it to every walk of life that sees me near it. My current issue though is with regard to range and would like to know others experiences. I have had it serviced not less than 3x already to check whether or not the battery is functioning properly. I am routinely losing over 20% of range for any trip more than 85 miles. I travel from PA to NJ shore often and it is about a 90 mile trip. I always charge it to max and lately the max is only about 255 (used to be 265). Anyway, I made the trip today and had a short detour from my usual trip, overall trip was 110 miles, I started at 244 range and had warmed up the car. When I finished the trip, it took about 4 hours overall with a stop over of about 90 minutes and I am down to range of 88. It was about 37 degrees during the trip, I turned off the heat and didn't even leave my phone in the charger. Service knows about this significant range loss but continues to tell me it is operating normally. I have read some postings regarding a loss of 30% but those appear to be related to subzero temperatures. Also my average speed was probably @65 mph, I never drive the car rough, and never floor it. Individual experiences would be appreciated so again, I am averaging a loss of over 25% of posted range on any trip over 80 miles. Usually I lose more than 115 for the average trip of 90 miles that only takes an hour and a half.

Only other issue is with the sirius radio reception but that is a known problem, my fix has been to download the sirius xm app and stream it bluetooth. This is actually great because I get to listen to Howard Stern whenever I want, download his programs and I don't have to listen to the same segment every time I get into the car. I recommend that as a work around for those with similar issues. Only downside is that calls interrupt the program :).

Haeze | December 15, 2013

For the first few months I owned the car, I was averaging 350-400 Wh/mile because I was having so much fun flooring it at every stop light. After 3 months or so I finally started treating it more like a daily driver (with fun stints every once in a while) and now I average closer to 300-320Wh/mile which is almost spot-on with the EPA Rated range.

In really cold weather I will average a 5-10% higher energy usage due to heating of the passenger cabin, and heating of the battery pack. I used to have a 20-30% increase in cold weather until I learned to pre-heat the battery before I unplug it to leave in the morning.

Erik_Sherman | December 15, 2013

I do a lot of highway driving at high speedy and my car only gets about 180 per standard charge. In Florida the speed limit is 70 and most people drive 80. I only drive about 80 mikes a day so I am not worried but for long trips I will have to drive slower

tes-s | December 15, 2013

I have an S85 and get pretty much the same range as you. I drive roundtrip to NJ from CT. 100 miles each way, and uses 230 or 240 miles of range now that it is cold.

Brian H | December 15, 2013

Thick, cold air is harder to push aside.

mantin | December 15, 2013

I just went LA to San Diego and back. Used 266 down to 115 mi for the 132 mile trip. Charged at Mossy Nissan (Balboa and Grand) in Pacific Beach (3 hours - free - really nice GM and Gen Sales Man - very helpful and free popcorn to watch TV NCAA basketball on Saturday) Charged on 110 line at my dtr's house to get some extra and then charged additional 30 miles at Tesla SC in Hawthorne (Hawthorne airport just off 105 fwy, at Crenshaw - 6 minutes). Great trip and no problems. Got home with 15 miles to spare. Is there a "reserve" tank, ie, 20-30 miles of charge after the dash says -0-?

Pungoteague_Dave | December 15, 2013

Generally speaking, 180 is max range to drive an 85 "normally" in 30 - 40 degree weather. I can push that up to about 205-210 miles by driving below the speed limit, 55 maximum, minimize stops, soft pedal, avoid brakes.

@mantin, I have driven the car to zero about five times, and three miles beyond zero twice. I did so based on comments in another thread that there are about 17 miles in reserve. I don't like cutting it so close, but find that if you run the energy app and keep the projected miles about 10% above your destination miles, you are pretty safe. Sometimes this means driving 50 in a 65 mph zone, but does ensure that you'll get there. This requires using the NAV all the time, even for known destinations.

Mathew98 | December 15, 2013

@lehman - Have you set the Range mode to on and Energy mode to on?

Range mode resulted in 25 - 30% reduction in energy use for me in NY/NJ area.

village33 | December 16, 2013

For long trips I always start and end in a garage (which is about 20 degrees warmer than outside), with battery pre-heated (ie charging the two hours before I leave) and car preheated to 70 degrees and get basically exactly EPA range at 69mph over 50-100mi CT/NJ/NY/MA stretches basically year round. Try that and watch the 30mi average screen while driving steadily that speed over 100mi and you should get 300-320wh/mi and EPA range. 74mph will give a different result (see range/speed chart). A stop parked outside where the car drops to 25 degrees will cause a startup energy usage spike that will mess up all your averages. 10+ mph headwind and/or significant altitude change will make a big difference too just like in an ICE car.

InfamousNic | December 16, 2013

This morning trip to work:

- Total distance is 90km with the first 10 in the mountains.
- Temperature this morning on the thermometer was -22c. Almost no wind.
- The roads still have some snow and ice.
- I left home right after charging with battery warmed. Regen was still limited to 30kW.
- I pre-warmed the car to 20c before leaving.
- I drove without paying attention to consumption but still drove carefully to account for the bad road conditions. I drove the highway part (70km) at 119km/h (75m/h). I kept the heat at 20c and used the rear/mirror defrost a bit.

I Left with 371km of rated range and arrived with 224km so I used up 138km for the 90km ride - Close to 50% overhead. If I recall, the average energy usage for the trip was roughly 290wh/km.

I have only had the car for a week and the temperature has been mostly this low for the past week. This energy consumption is pretty standard to me so far. Regardless of car being a bit more hungry for power than I thought with my driving style and speed, I am in love... This is the most exciting car I have owned - no close competition :) (I have previously owned most Audi S & RS and BMW M cars and SUVs).

cyantist | December 16, 2013

I think its a mistake for Tesla to even give us the "miles of range" left approach. Few ICE cars do this. Like every car, you have a certain size tank/battery and how you drive determines how far you can go. My P85+ gets 345 Wh per mile in city or on highway. (Sorry, I dont go slow or not floor it. Why else would I have bought a car like this. Its a performance vehicle!)
With a full 85KWh battery that equals 246 miles (divide by Wh per mile). But just like your gasoline car, Tesla tells you have reached "E" (0 miles left) when there is still some juice left. For my car this is around 75KWh (I have taken it down to 1 mile left and it had used 73.6KWh and driven 217 miles from full charge). Thus, a perfect battery should get you about 27 extra miles before you need to get out and push (done this many times with ICE, not yet with Tesla).
The only reliable range indicator is the "average" on the Energy app on the main screen. It takes your last 30 miles and projects how far you can go before reaching "E" using that rate of energy consumption. Given that my energy use is so consistent, I have found this very accurate.

DTsea | December 16, 2013

I hope the OP, at, is not trolling for a lawsuit. From their website:

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lehman | December 16, 2013


That's pretty funny, VIN 4615 so not trolling for anything but given the fact that I can't use my phone as a phone because I have to use it to stream audio (satellite reception is a known problem) and I am getting 20% less than the promised 265 range (with the original 300 as theoretically reachable) how can you blame me for somewhat bypassing the honeymoon phase. It's not like I signed up to be a beta tester and if you had the list of all the things that have gone wrong with my model you wouldn't blame me for being concerned. With that said, I appreciate all of the other feedback, it does appear that my vehicle is acting in line with all the other owners. Also as a shareholder, I think it is imperative that a public company such as Tesla does not put out misleading information. I mean even the promise of the supercharger in NJ by end of Fall has not been realized. I actually had to cancel a trip to NJ because it was 105 miles away and I reasonably believed I wouldn't make it back. Now those are reasonable material concerns, don't you agree? Or, should I have just paid for the gas and driven my Lexus LX 470 that is averaging 11.8 mpg? I bought the car because they said I would get 265 range, with 300 achievable. That is only going to happen if I drive downhill the entire trip.

Tâm | December 16, 2013


Get all the promises you want, but range is only reproducible in a controlled environment by EPA or Tesla.

Any deviation: Oops! Colder. Oops! Uphill! Oops! More wind. Oops! Higher speed... then you are out of luck.

Range goes from really low (on a race track) to very very long (423.5 miles by Florida Professor and son) all depends on how you drive.

The worst offense is SPEED!

So you just have to learn how to make it to a destination successfully. Others can, you could too.

Otherwise, you may need to ask Tesla to produce a bigger capacity battery because that's all an 85 kWh can do for you currently!

Brian H | December 16, 2013

"that's all an 85 kWh can do for you currently". Another battery pun? ;p

bradtesla | December 16, 2013

I consume 20-22% more miles than reported but rarely get under SOC of 100 miles. Tomorrow I plan to go from San Diego to LA and back and will definitely need to charge somewhere. Not going as far as Hawthorne so until San Juan Capistrano I'm going to have to find a few chargers in between.

nickjhowe | December 16, 2013

80 mph vs 65 mph = 25% less range.
30 deg vs 70 deg = 10-25% less range, depending on pre-heat and heater use
A/C = 10% less range
21" vs 19" = 5% less range

@lehman - Sounds like you are within these ranges, so what you are seeing is expected behavior.

oildeathspiral | December 16, 2013

265 mile range is at 55mph, no AC or heating. Anything over that severely affects mileage, just like any other vehicle.

"Usually I lose more than 115 for the average trip of 90 miles that only takes an hour and a half."

That's around a 60 mph average which would lessen range by 15 miles. Using the heater, driving faster or more aggressively would reduce range further.

This info has always been available here (click on HOW FAR CAN I GO, then scroll down to adjust speed, temp etc.):

JstACarGuy | December 16, 2013

I travel round trip 150 miles, with the car parked in outdoor lot during the day. Start with rated 235 and arrive home with 45-50 miles. This is during the very cold week we've been having in Nj/ny driving on Blizzaks 19s. Seems reasonable to me. Enjoying the heck out of the car. Its a P85.

Oh yea, hard to keep it at 75... (Grin)

SMinnihan | December 16, 2013

tesla should be transparent around range at different speeds and temperatures.....for a company on a "mission" to change the world, it certainly seems to obfuscate the data. Sad.

At end of day, it takes a lot of energy to produce and move a 5,000 pound vehicle at high speeds. Tesla should truly fess up on each of these points.

oildeathspiral | December 16, 2013


Tesla is transparent about range:

Peter7 | December 16, 2013

@ SMinnihan

You are absolutely correct. Tesla currently hides this information from all of us by placing it under the TOP 5 Questions (right next to the Model S Specs link) as on of the top 5 questions. You can see for yourself:

They have expanded the calculations include up to 70 MPH and 0 degrees F.


stsanford | December 17, 2013

I was a bit shocked to see how much of an impact "cold" weather has been to my range. When I called Tesla, the Customer Service rep said that anything below 70º is considered cold.

Here are some of my ranges with my 60:

Today, drove 40 miles. Lost 70 in range.
Yesterday, I left with 173 miles of range, drove 98 miles and arrived home with 39 miles left. (Best so far)

A few days ago I drove 25 miles to and from work, but lost 70 in range.

I was expecting 10-20%, not a 50% reduction in range. I've changed my driving habits a bit, have slowed my speed, bundled up and reduced the heat, but I have to admit, I'm not thrilled about having to do that. I feel I was prepared for some compromises, but this is a bit much. I had someone ask me how much I love the car, I told him: "Ask me again in the spring. Range stinks in the cold... Other than that, it's a great car in every way..." The words left my mouth before I realized it. I've been an evangelist since getting my car in June. First "negative" think I have had to report.

MezzaLuna | December 17, 2013

@stsanford -- I completely agree. I understand that there are tradeoffs involved, but the heating compromises in range mode are really unacceptable. When I configure the heating to what I would consider "normal" (i.e. not having to wear gloves and hat just to drive the darn car), I'm seeing the same kind of reductions as you are.

New S60 (two weeks today), so most of my experience so far has been in cold, snowy, icy conditions. Not impressed so far.

Brian H | December 17, 2013

Tsk, tsk. Troll-teasing is unkind. The poor things are just hungry, y'know?

Assume you mean "as one of the", above.

Has disclosure of your Multi-Input EVSE design been cancelled? <;-(

Brian H | December 17, 2013

Battery pre-heating NNIC.

Elon studied for a while at Queen's University, in Kingston, Ontario. Not exactly Canada's Winterland, but he should still know better.

murraypetera | December 17, 2013

I live 40 north of NYC.
Cold has had a Huge hit on range.
I have. 40/60

Lifetime 16500 miles 303 Wh/mi

Sep 298 Wh/mi
Oct 305 Wh/mi
Nov 320 Wh/mi
Dec 360 Wh/mi

The battery heating kills the range in the cold. No way to pre heat it. It is not feasible to change amps every day to figure out when it will finish. This is a huge over site by tesla.

I should have the ability to tell the car I want to leave at X and it figures out the rest and has the car prepped for me cabin battery and charge.

DTsea | December 17, 2013

well OP sorry you have had trouble. most of us understood the SC schedule as squishy but they are making a lot of headway now.