the Top 3 big's....

the Top 3 big's....

Honeymoon seem to be over.
Issues are coming up.
Without complaining and still hoping that the S is as good as we all hope(d); here are my No,No's which if not addressed will lead me to walk away.....

1. Door handles
2. Sunroof bar
3. Creep

BYT | October 9, 2012

The biggest problem I see with the 2 foot manual hold down the break with the left foot method (that was a mouth full), is that in an ICE, you can hear the engine rev and so you can adjust for when you think the car has enough UMPH to push it up the hill. You don't get that audio feedback in the Model S.

BYT | October 9, 2012

brake, sorry!

gimp_dad | October 9, 2012

Not sure there is a difference between hill hold and creep mode. My driveway has an incline although not super steep but used to cause the car to roll backward before creep. Now with creep enabled it holds from rolling backward. Not sure how else to tell.

BYT | October 9, 2012

gimp_dad, creep works fine as a hill hold on slight inclines. On a steep grade however, that car will still roll backwards with creep enabled. This is where Hill Hold comes into play. On my Rav4 when I depress the brakes extra hard, the car goes into Hill Hold mode for a few seconds until I hit the accelerate enough to overcome the steep grade and send the car moving forward.

jkirkebo | October 9, 2012

Just press the brake with the left side of you right foot. When you want to go, twist the foot so the right side presses on the accelerator before the right side lets go off the brake pedal. Then slide the foot all the way over to the accelerator.

blurry_eyed | October 9, 2012

New Software enables creep mode (it's optional so you can turn it off if you don't want to have creep). Bill Lee (a Founders car owner) posted more info about the most recent update. This is the kind of thing Tesla will be able to do to improve the Model S (and all their future models) on an on-going basis.

Brian H | October 9, 2012

Should be fairly straightforward for the electronics to employ the accelerometer to detect flat/slope when stopped, and to then do either creep or hold as appropriate.

olanmills | October 9, 2012

vouteb, the original post seems a bit melodramatic for small issues.

-If the door handles really have problems like Tomas described, then I agree it's a significant problem and hopefully it can be fixed with an update.

-The other two issues just don't seem like that big of a deal. The sunroof bar isn't visible from the outside unless you're squatting down and looking up into the car at the ceiling.

From the inside, I guess you might notice it when you're getting in and out, maybe, but really, people sitting in the front aren't going to be looking at it. It seems like a minor concern. I can understand making criticisms. The car isn't perfect, but seriously, the roof bar makes you want to walk away?

-As for the creep, well as I'm sure someone has mentioned, they are adding it with their latest update. And I think it's great to have the option if people want it. This is what's so great about having so much software integrated into the car. However, even if it wasn't there, I think it would be a wierd thing to complain about.

Only automatic transmissions have creep. There is no reason to expect that an electric car should have creep or that Tesla somehow got it wrong. Creep in an electric car is artificial.

vouteb | October 9, 2012

@ olanmills

Thanks for that

agree with most but the last

The S is not (only) competing with electric cars but all cars, if they want to be successful it needs to beat the likes if BMW,Jaguar etc.

Brian H | October 9, 2012

There're different dimensions of "beat". Some are relevant, some not.

olanmills | October 10, 2012

@vouteb I still don't understand what you mean. The Jaguar XF, for example, creeps because it's only offered as an automatic transmission.

Most automatic transmissions today always apply torque to the wheels because of the way they're designed. There is no clutch to disengage.

Creep may be beneficial (I admit it's handy), but I don't think customers and see it as like a competitive "feature". It's just one of the things that makes an automatic transmission different from manual.

There are some people who don't like the AT creep:

And there are actually some types of AT designs that don't have creep.

And when I searched, I even found references to patents for devices to eliminate creep from AT cars.

I'm no expert on this stuff, but I think creep is just an incedental consequence of the way ATs work, not like a desired feature that they wanted to add to the car.

So again, I think it's great that Tesla can offer a customizable creep function, but not something that I would think of as "missing" in an electric car. The Tesla has no transmission. A creep feature would be entirely artificial. An AT car has creep as a consequence of the way the AT works, not as a design requirement.

sergiyz | October 10, 2012

it's already there and customizable.
The hill hold is not yet.

sagebrushnw | October 10, 2012

@ olanmills

"The Tesla has no transmission."

Please check the specs at:

Gear box..."Single speed fixed gear with 9.73:1 reduction ratio".

Timo | October 11, 2012

It's not really a transmission, just reduction gear. One gear, no clutch or anything. When you reverse you turn motor in opposite direction.

vouteb | October 11, 2012

@olanmills: Creep is here, so we're back to 1 and 2

(Its a personal taste, so don't get too excited. Although the post DID generate quite some traffic)

Door handles still seems a tricky one.....

vouteb | October 11, 2012

1. Door handles
2 Parking sensors(I was under the impression that it had it....!)

Volker.Berlin | October 11, 2012

olanmills, interesting link, thanks for posting!

vouteb | October 11, 2012

@olanmills: I have an XF right now (maybe that s why...)


jeanyvest | October 11, 2012

Deal breaker in Quebec (Canada):

1) not AWD

After driving front and rear WD since 1985 and then AWD for the last 15 yrs, AWD is a must in this place.

Since no car has everything you want, you learn to identify what is important to yourself and live with the rest. It has been said before, it's just like a mariage.

Now I am waiting for the X AWD to come out...and the wait is excruciating...

Volker.Berlin | October 11, 2012

jeanyvest, well... The Model S may be different. It has a far lower center of gravity, and most of its weight is located between the wheels, and evenly distributed front to back. Also, the electric drive train allows for far more advanced traction control than what you may have experienced in ICE vehicles. I'm not going to talk you into it, but I will say that you may be missing out on an opportunity if you give it a pass so quickly.

Many people from Canada and from the Scandinavic countries share your sentiments. There have been a couple of threads which you may find interesting to read. I compiled a short list here:

sergiyz | October 12, 2012

speaking of Jags, here's how you do door handles that work:

vouteb | October 12, 2012

1. Door handles
2. Sunroof bar
3. Motorised door mirrors

vouteb | October 12, 2012

1. Door handles
2. Parking sensors
3. Motorised door mirrors

mrspaghetti | October 17, 2012


It seems like #3 would only gain you an inch on either side of the car anyway. Worth it?

Volker.Berlin | October 18, 2012

It seems like #3 would only gain you an inch on either side of the car anyway.

See this thread for an explanation:

vouteb | October 18, 2012

@mrspaghetti: YES!

vouteb | October 18, 2012

its more in centimeters!

David M. | October 18, 2012

vouteb - "2David M. : How do you know I am a 'he'?"

my bad - "she"

Tomas | October 18, 2012

I LOVE creep. Thanks TM!
Hopefully the next change will be to fix the button on the steering wheel so that it advances to the next programmed radio station rather "search".
Parking sensors? Seriously? I guess I'm old school and I still get a thrill out of nailing a paralle parking job.
I pride myself at be really good at it, and frankly, it ain't that hard folks. Sad that all they are taking the fun out if life.

nickjhowe | October 18, 2012

@Tomas - how about a wish-list item to enable the thumb wheel on the steering wheel to increase/decrease creep speed...? For those times when standard creep is that bit too fast/too slow. :-)

vouteb | October 19, 2012

@DavidM: Gotcha!

I am a he!


mrspaghetti | October 22, 2012


That's just mean... :)

SSL161 | October 22, 2012

Joining the chorus....

Handles are only thing I can agree with; they are cool, to be sure, but that isn't a failure that I want to deal with when Murphy comes calling, and they will fail, cuz whenever you complicate something this simple, you leave yourself open to problems.

I have other issues that I find more pressing.

- Cruise control on an stick rather than on the wheel (too Euro for me)

- Column mounted "gear" select; I prefer it where my muscle memory says that it should be, low ready on the right side (I used to be a manual gear driver :) )

Naturally, I'll get used to it (as I did with the Roadster) but i don't have to like it.

--- Cherif

JackB | October 22, 2012

Yes it does. I used that technique in a parking garage that had steep ramps, and it worked fine. Haven't been back to try it again now that I have the Creep feature, but will report when I have a chance.