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Trip Planner (Beta) and Range Assurance

Trip Planner (Beta) and Range Assurance

I've updated my Model S 60 to 6.2 and now the navigation memory is all wacky, and the maps have been zooming in and out. By wacky, I mean that some addresses didn't show up in Recent, and others show up with just what I typed and not what I eventually chose and navigated to, e.g. in Recents it would show 405 n 1st, instead of 405 N. 1st St., San Jose, CA, which is what I chose from the list. So I'm forced to chose from a list again, rather than just selecting a recent trip. I'm sure this will quickly get fixed, but I'm wondering if anyone has worked with Tesla on their Beta software? Do they accept user feedback? I'd love to give feedback about what's going on and also would love to share what would truly help me have range assurance.

I'd like the Trip Planner to have Way Points so that I could map out my whole day and see if/where I need to charge. Just entering a destination and not even being able to make that round trip isn't really any better than how it was before. My 2006 Toyota Nav has way points, but of course, it isn't connected so no traffic, etc.

I live in San Jose and would prefer to stay on the peninsula versus going over to the East Bay, but there is no supercharger on this side. I plan my trips from home before I head out, but was looking forward to using the Tesla Nav for this. I may have an appointment in So. San Francisco, Santa Cruz and then home. This is over 175 miles round trip and yes, I can find charging stations, but not much that is fast, so I really need to map out my appointments.

Curious what others are looking for in trip planning?

CraigW | April 16, 2015

Google Maps and https://evtripplanner.com are probably your best bet.

I didn't have the problems you noted, but you do know that you have to press the 'trip' button to see directions to more than the nearest supercharger. Even so, at 175 miles in the Bay Area, you are well within the safety range if you are driving an 85 or S70D.

CraigW | April 16, 2015

Sorry, I just noted you have a 60. So do I, but I have often driven down to 10-20 left and never had a problem. On long trips I frequently can get to 10 miles, but can see why you wouldn't want to do this 'around-town'.

Jennifer | April 16, 2015

Thanks for your reply CraigW. Yes, for the most part, I feel like I have plenty of range, but I always have, the new trip planner just doesn't help me plan a busy day or an overnight in the way I was expecting and hoping for. I really think that allowing Way Points is important. I can drive round trip from my home to Marin and back, but if I stop in SF, etc. I reach the end of my range. Sure I know I can drive home through Fremont and/or plug in somewhere else during a long stop, but I can figure this all out via my computer or phone - 6.2 isn't helping me.

So I am interested in two things and am wondering who else is too:

Trip Planning with Way Points - allowing as many as we want

and

A peninsula supercharger station - maybe at the dealership in Burlingame.

nvjx | April 16, 2015

I agree, a supercharging station in the peninsula makes a lot of sense.

arwooldridge | April 16, 2015

Updated with 6.2.
Supercharger trip planning looks way out.
First stop advised me to go 77 miles with only 60 mile typical range in battery giving -10% energy left!
It planned to go right past another supercharger which it could easily have made!
I charged a bit more then redid the trip planning, this time it advised me to go past two superchargers and make it to the third with only 1% battery left!
However looking into it more detail it made the trip 150 miles but I know its only 114 miles but it does include a 25 mile ferry crossing across the English channel.
I think it thought the car had to drive across the channel, maybe in 007 mode?
Or maybe it thought I was taking the Eurotunnel and driving along the train tracks?

arwooldridge | April 16, 2015

OK 95% charged now 236 typical miles replanned trip and planner advised passing three supercharger points now to try to make the fourth with -12% battery. This time informed me charging was required to make destination. Display does not seem to show intermediate superchargers any more as it used to.
Don't get me wrong the Tesla team are doing a great job, just I think this range planning could do with some revision soon.

Jennifer | April 16, 2015

Agree, not quite ready for primetime. How do we share issues with Tesla software team?

DLebryk | April 16, 2015

Form on this page:
http://www.teslamotors.com/contact

Or you can do voice command in the car and say "report" and then tell them what you are thinking.

kenj | April 17, 2015

The trip assurance appears to be something that was developed from the cross country trip data, optimizing the time spent an SC. Since the battery charges quickly to 80% then begins to taper, the algorithm looks like it tries to get the latest SC time, not whether you need to charge.

You can decide to skip a charge.

Some use the calendar to create waypoints. So if you put a location in the calendar (at least on an iPhone), then you can tap on the appointment and it is sent to the nav. Shows you distance to location and you can decide to charge around those points choosing whether to use the SC trip planner (which also considers places you have charged).

Still a little manual calculation but a lot better than before.

arwooldridge | April 17, 2015

Actually I completed the trip and its not quite as bad once the car was driving a few miles it did decide to stop at an earlier SC. It seems that as long as the car is still charging the planning is not finalised. It still did not correctly calculate for non driving on ferry.
This is probably just a bug with the satnav algorithm. I have seen it on other Sat navs too.
One oddity is it eventually advised two SC stops of just 10 mins each, but one stop of 20 mins was more efficient, as it must take 5 or 10 minutes just to find the SC and connect up.
If you ignore SC planning the nav map shows all the charging points on the map, but if you opt for the SC planned route all charging points are ommitted bar the allocated ones. This makes it difficult to assess and alter the preselected route.

NOLEK SUM | April 17, 2015

It is so far from Prime Time it is embarrassing. I don't even see how they can call it a Beta. Another egregious example of Musk overpromising and under delivering.

Just used it for the first time, on a 195 miles route we have driven dozens of times, so we know well exactly how the 85 handles it. It is a challenging route: over 6000 feet of net climb, with over 10,000 feet of total climb. We always arrive at our destination with about 20 miles left. I tend to drive 5 miles over on the flat bits and right at the 65 mile limit on the climbs. (on the reverse route, we drive 5 miles over the entire way and get back with 90 miles left!)

TP initially told me I would make it with 10% left. I drove right at the speed limit the entire trip today. And about 20 miles of the trip was at 35 mph because of construction. But shortly after leaving home-within about 10 miles-I was told to drive slowly in order to reach destination, and then, periodically, the system kept telling me I would have to charge somewhere to get there.

I of course knew this was nonsense and we did arrive with 15 miles left. My point is that if I had been doing this for the first time, I might not of done it all and certainly would have had muctremendous range anxiety if I had. Why other point was that since the system can calculate the exact elevation changes, it should be much more accurate is long as I never exceed the speed limit. As a wise old Magyar banker once told me: success needs no exclamation, and failure has none.

On other routes, the system simply points out the absurdity of those who say this car is ready for prime time for long-range travel. It most certainly is not, unless, of course, you were traveling a route up California where there is a supercharger everyone ~ 150 miles. This is not to say that TP might not be accurate, but that it simply points out the vehicle's limitations on many routes to very popular destinations.

We drive from our home in Pinetop Arizona to Santa Fe once a summer and would like to take the Tesla. It is a delightful 5 Hour Drive in an ice car. In the Tesla, you cannot do it all with superchargers and only with enormous inconvenience, time and hassle using those other things that are out there.

If I want to drive from Phoenix to Dallas, TP takes me through Denver. Wow. That really makes a lot of sense. It adds hundreds of miles and about 12 hours to the logical route.

Phoenix to New Orleans? The TP route takes ... 42 -that's forty two - hours! The ICE route is 22 hours.

EVs will never be mainstream until this issue is solved: refueling at the convenience and speed of the ice car.

Even driving from Phoenix to San Francisco, where supercharging is no problem, the time needed to supercharge adds so much to the trip, vis-à-vis ice, that you have to spend a night in a hotel.

Wonderful vehicle, but not for long distance travel. Good enough for many, but not for most. Most people simply won't put up with the nonsense required.

Bluesday Afternoon | April 17, 2015

@Gadfly - I understand where you're coming from with your criticism. I'd predict the Tesla trip planner will improve quickly. I find the system substantially lacking (currently) and does NOT relieve range anxiety when traveling unfamiliar routes. On a trip, I never leave home without EVTripPlanner's version loaded on my phone. Then I feel confident! On my recent AZ trip of 1200 miles I divided it up into smaller segments and, for the most part, the Tesla system improved. But, we shouldn't have to construct work arounds to achieve what we need.

What's encouaging is the expansion of Supercharging stations and the likelyhood of significant improvements by way of OTA enhancements. I'm confident Tesla is hearing our concerns and the introduction of waypoints in the near future will greatly improve our traveling experience. We may need to relax more by stopping a little longer while recharging but I found long distance traveling in my S85D quite doable and look forward to more trips.

They improved my horsepower without me leaving my garage, I'm sure this little hurdle will also arrive in the still of the night.

Bluesday Afternoon | April 17, 2015

Meant to say, "I'm sure the solution to this little hurdle will also arrive in the still of the night."

AmpedRealtor | April 17, 2015

I love how Tesla calls it a "trip planner" yet only allows you to enter a single destination.

NOLEK SUM | April 17, 2015

amped

Can't you work around by putting in your final destination and then starring your desired stops along the way?

Haggy | April 18, 2015

Amped: I love how Tesla calls it a "trip planner" yet only allows you to enter a single destination.

I'm glad you are finally coming around to Tesla's side.

donandrews508 | April 18, 2015

The non-supercharger places I have charged at in the past magically appear on the map. Very nice. I assume they will be used, if appropriate, when it is planning a trip? Is there a way to make it aware of a charging location I know of but have not used yet?

eye.surgeon | April 18, 2015

Just drove 350 miles from Fresno to Palm Springs area to attend the BMW performance driving school tomorrow. I agree that the trip planner beta leaves a lot to be desired. One glaring flaw is it apparently locates the closest SC as the crow flies, ie by drawing a straight line on a map. Kind of a problem when it's trying to direct me to a supercharger that's 80 miles away as the crow flies but 200 miles away by roads courtesy of the Sierra Nevada mountains. It was trying to direct me to charge in Lone Pine while trying to drive from Fresno to Palm Springs....a nice 100+ mile detour in the opposite direction. Other bugs and glitches too numerous to mention.

Having said that, I love my Tesla and the software has tremendous potential and after all they are calling it a Beta. I have a feeling the next update is going to be a big improvement.

bonu | November 15, 2015

We love our S85D, but it's a shame that we have to use our handy or the laptop for real trip planning.
We also like the link through the calendar, but
when does Tesla include:
1) urgent: waypoints (cannot be that difficult, as it already works with SCs as waypoints)
2) sometimes important: real driving distance instead of birds flight to SCs
(the algorithms are there, just a two step approach might solve the problem - find the birds flight nearest ones, then check by running through a second cycle with their driving distance)
3) good to have: an optional switch for more accurate planning (to use when necessary because of elevation, car load, speed considerations...)

Rocky_H | November 16, 2015

@bonu, Regarding #2, Straight line distance is instant, because it's just microseconds to subtract the coordinates of the car to the destination. It's all done locally. To do the real distance, there's quite a bit more involved with plotting the route, checking it against traffic, possibly needing to use the internet connection to get part of the information, etc. etc. so that would create a big delay in bringing up the screen for it to do that for the twenty-something locations in the list.

Pungoteague_Dave | November 16, 2015

All GPS units in the world list bird's-flight distances to potential POIs, and then do the actual on-road distance calculation after the POI is selected. That's essentially a permanent limitation of the technology until we have onboard supercomputers that can perform multiple simultaneous routing algorithms to show actual driving mileage for every listed POI option on one screen.

Haggy | November 18, 2015

That's essentially a permanent limitation of the technology until we have onboard supercomputers that can perform multiple simultaneous routing algorithms to show actual driving mileage for every listed POI option on one screen.

With memoization (that's not a misspelling despite what my browser is telling me) it would be possible over time to cache the distances between a given point and various landmarks, businesses, and anything that would show up on a screen from that location. Then calculations would be faster since it might come down to being a few exits further down the freeway but nowhere near the first change of artery, so the calculation would be a straight line, or something close enough. As more and more people computed distances, there would be more and more points for future reference. Computers wouldn't have to get much faster, but much more data would have to get stored. The computer would then check to see if it had distances stored from a particular point, or within a certain distance of it, present it with minor adjustments if it's there, or give a straight line distance otherwise. Then when a person actually calculated it, it would update the database. That database would be online so it would be a matter of passing coordinates, which already gets done, and having more specific ones passed back if they are available.

It still wouldn't be precise, and would either still reflect a specific route that might not be the one ultimately chosen, or it might give you a range (182-184 miles away) that would give you an indication of possible known routes.