What kind of people want to see Tesla to go down?

What kind of people want to see Tesla to go down?

Many! Oil industry, ICE automakers, Fisker loyalists, Chinese EV makers, Saude Monarchies, US dealer association, anti-green fanatics,....and MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE Tesla stock shorts. It's a billion dollar plus issue for those guys they would more than happy to see Tesla to go down and would not hesitate to contribute however they could including making false accusations on the Tesla forum.

Can we prevent those people from posting lies on the forum? Probably not. Just be aware this is not a perfect world and don't take face value of everything you see on an internet forum. Alway ask to see evidences before you're fully convinced of anything that matters to you. Do this not only on Tesla forum but treat any your internet communications this way too.

S4WRXTTCS | June 23, 2013

I wonder if most of you are experienced with automotive forums?

In automotive forums there tends to be patterns. Where you have some people EXTREMELY enthusiastic about a car even to a fault. Then there are those that vent anger and frustration. Where they make way more noise than the problem could ever possibly justify.

Both of these things do a huge disservice for those that are interested in the car, and just want a fair and balanced take on it. For people to acknowledge the pluses and minuses. Every car has its fair share of problems.

In my brief experience with this forum I've seen the forum software itself as being a HUGE hurdle that's way worse than any particular user. The fact that you can't see if the person is a registered owner, and in fact you cant even see what the user has said in the past (or when they registered). To make matters even worse it doesn't even have a search function. Tesla needs to decide whether it wants the forums to be part of their site or just get rid of it entirely. As it stands right now it feels extremely half baked.

Luckily there is the Tesla user group forum which so far I've gotten most of my information from. Those people are insanely knowledgeable.

GReese | June 23, 2013

It's always better to mistakenly treat a troll with respect than it is to mistakenly treat someone with a valid concern as a troll.

tommers | June 23, 2013

Where have you been seeing this on the forums? While I've seen lots of this in the larger political/business world, I find the Tesla forums are some of the most respectful around and haven't come across a lot of negative propaganda or misinformation.

carlk | June 23, 2013

@S4WRXTTCS I think Tesla forum also has something very different from other car forums because Tesla happens to be the hottest stock on the market now. There is a 30% short interest of Tesla stock which can mean many biliions of dollars loss for those who shorted the stock. You know people will do anything when that large amount of money is involved.

I'm not making any accusations of anyone but on the other hand I'm also a Tesla stock holder (not an owner YET). I do have an obligation to protect my interest too, NO?

carlk | June 23, 2013

@tommers I mostly agree with you except a few recent incidence.

@GReese The so-called troll was giving all the chances to clarify the issue but he did not. He was treated with respect unless you think asking some questions about issue he posted is disrespect. Don't be so thin-skined that guy wasn't.

S4WRXTTCS | June 23, 2013

@carlk - You certainly have the right to protect your interest, but at the same time what I've seen in the forums so far isn't all that different from other automotive forums.

It's also important to understand we pretty much want the same thing. I think it needs to be done by improvements to the forum software, and not by accusing people of being paid trolls. Sure that does happen and I've read a lot of articles about that. Trolling can happen both ways of course so you never know who might be a troll. It's why I tend to put more stock into people who have both positive and negative things to say about their MS.

The HUGE difference about the tesla forum is Tesla controls it. I strongly feel like they need to make improvements to the software to avert having it implode on them due to an influx of a huge amount of people that aren't as knowledgeable on the product as the typical early adopter is. I have a fear that it's just going to get away from them if they don't. This thread if a perfect example of it getting away from the car itself.

As to shorting the stock I think its a valid strategy on something so HYPED. Things that are overly hyped have a tendency to be easily swayed one way or the other. It's brand new and it has a lot of volatility. We absolutely know he might not pull it off. I feel he will so my investment will reflect that.

GReese | June 23, 2013

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of your behaviour.

carlk | June 23, 2013

Same here. Now you can ignore my thread as you have suggested.

carlk | June 23, 2013

@S4WRXTTCS Like I said I agree with what you said that there are improvements this forum can make. My previous reply was only to state why I started this thread. Ability to search members posting history and more active moderators are other thing that will help this forum.

I do have a good reason to invest- note I said invest not trade-- in Tesla stock but that belongs to another thread.

sia | June 23, 2013

Thanks for posting this @carlf . The same subject has been on my mind, for the last few months.

I have an additional worry. I think it is very likely that the anti-Tesla forces would be motivated to purchase a few Tesla Model S’s, abuse their vehicles and post exaggerated or unfounded claims. What’s a few hundred thousand dollars for the big oil, when it gives them license to bad-mouth Tesla.

sia | June 23, 2013

Sorry, I meant to type @carlk.

michael1800 | June 23, 2013

Carlk, you have undeniable points and it IS hard to disagree with your suggestions; however, as Tesla consumers increase, so will the diversity of owner demographics. If Tesla continues to succeed in its mission, we will see more disgruntled owners who have never visited the forums before they had a problem; owners who messed up, but still feel the need to vent, right or wrong; trolls, industrialists and all kinds of others of all education levels and native languages. We do so much more damage by attacking our own than we do wby ignoring detractors or potential detractors.

We should all keep in mind, many folks come here for answers in a desperate state of panic or in need of collective feedback. The last thing on their minds is the 'prove everything' gauntlet or meeting an exhaustive list of demands from skeptics--this does not mean they are fake. What I am saying is that it is your right to speak your mind and exercise your freedom (military members die to keep it that way and you SHOULD exercise it), but it is more beneficial to Tesla if you ignore trolls or help there silly problems. Everyone loses on a troll hunt. Googlers won't read far enough, nor will forum watchers if we keep bumping it up (like I am!!!).

carlk | June 23, 2013

@sia Yes that will happen and they already did. The John Border article is just one. I hope Elon wil be smart enough to debunk those again in the future.

@Brain H Thanks,

carlk | June 24, 2013

@michael1800 Sure you can just ignore the trolls. Unfortunately some business writers or financial analysts, many with their own agenda, would pick it up and write, for example, Tesla owners complain high tire wear rate and could not get a satisfactory solution from the company. Many potential customers may also believe this is a real serious problem and get scared away. People who have interest in Tesla have the obligation of NOT letting the trolls to get their way. It's the same thing as Elon did to fight back John Border's article. Do you rather he did or did not do that?

sia | June 24, 2013

+1 @carlk !!

I agree that Elon and Telsa cannot do this alone. We need to help.

Captain_Zap | June 24, 2013

@ carlk

You stated, "Unfortunately some business writers or financial analysts, many with their own agenda, would pick it up and write, for example, Tesla owners complain high tire wear rate and could not get a satisfactory solution from the company."

So far, I am aware of only one situation of high tire wear with a claim that they did not yet get a resolution that meets their satisfaction. I'm going to consider this an anomoly until I learn otherwise and this person's concerns are addressed completely. If there is more than one situation like this I'd bet Tesla is investigating it.

Tesla tends to come through and meet or exceed expectations.

AmpedRealtor | June 24, 2013

Limiting problems to "private" threads is not kosher in my view. This does a disservice to prospective owners who are researching the vehicle and want to know the bad as well as the good. Trolls reveal themselves very quickly, and troll threads should be deleted by the moderators or if enough people flag the thread as inappropriate it will delete itself. It's better to police ourselves than it is to censor people.

I do not share the belief that Tesla needs to be protected from negative threads and potential negative publicity. This is an overcorrection and an overreaction. Tesla must live up to the same standards as any auto vehicle manufacturer and maker of consumer products. They don't need to be coddled and Elon Musk is a big boy who can take care of himself.

Have a hop over to Edmunds, you'll see quite a list of problems that popped up during their extended ownership of the Model S. When there are problems, people are going to talk. There is plenty of discussion happening outside of the forums here at, some of it positive and some of it negative. It's important to discuss negative experiences, defects and problems openly and honestly - only this way will those problems be addressed.

sia | June 24, 2013


You make some good points. I do have one question for you. When you wrote:

“Tesla must live up to the same standards as any auto vehicle manufacturer”

Of course, all things being equal, I agree with the principle of your statement.

But I take it, that you think, there is already a level playing field for all auto manufacturers and that Electric Vehicles are not the target of sabotage by the established power structure.

carlk | June 24, 2013

@AmpedRealtor Don't get me wrong. I have never said people with legitimate issues should not post. I'm all for discussing problems, issues and suggestions for improvement on this forum. I'm talking about people with hidden agenda and posting stories that did not happen with the intention to hurt Tesla business or stock value. My op is just to tell you there are many of those people around. You can go to the Yahoo Finance TSLA forum to check out the outrageous claims against Tesla by the shorts if you don't believe me.

AmpedRealtor | June 24, 2013

@ sia - no, I'm not saying that it's a level playing field. However, I don't feel that censoring posts about problems is the solution.

@ carlk - I totally get what you're saying. As an Apple stockholder, I can tell you first hand how much damage can be done by faux analysts and silly (stupid) media expectations. What's important is that Tesla keeps releasing positive information, continues having show-stopping demos like the battery swap that alleviates consumer anxiety, and generally keep up the good PR. That does more to counter any negative media spin than anything else. This is what we aren't getting from Apple - an aggressive messaging campaign - that is hurting them.

Sure there are trolls and people who don't want Tesla to succeed. Some would love to see Tesla fail in order to make money shorting their stock - not caring one iota about the ramifications to the future of individual transport. Some want Tesla to fail because they simply dislike change and criticize everything that is new and different. My business partner's father-in-law ridiculed her desire to buy a Model S, he also ridiculed her for putting solar panels on her roof. He also watches Fox News 24/7. I think your general outlook on life has the biggest impact on whether you want to see Tesla succeed or fail, and nothing we can do here in the forums can defend against that.

sia | June 24, 2013


For the record, I am not for censoring anything.

But I believe false claims should be checked and expose.

lolachampcar | June 24, 2013

I would think that Tesla Marketing have designed this forum (without search, PMs, online notices,,) exactly as it is for very good reasons. For example, not having a search function allows people to discuss current issues then have those issues fade away once they have been addressed (I'm thinking 12V batteries of which we hear very little about these days).

I'm sure the Tesla people have spent a lot of time on forums and fully understand the plus and minus points of a full featured forum like TMC. They have chosen not to do one and I would tend to trust their judgement on this one no matter how irritating it seems on the surface.

Brian H | June 24, 2013

Broder. Means "brother" in German.

Very few negative comments etc. rise to the level of the Broder article. That was outright misrepresentation, pushed in the NYT, no less. Lesser challenges get dealt with and reality-adjusted by users etc. pretty quickly, it seems.

tobi_ger | June 24, 2013

@Brian: "Bruder" is German for "brother", not "Broder" ;)

Bryan M. | June 24, 2013

the kind of people who don't sign the white house petition

AmpedRealtor | June 24, 2013

@ Brian H - it's galling to me that the NYT still has the Broder article up on its web site with no comments section or any discussion of Tesla's response to the article. I don't know what their problem is, but I think they should at least acknowledge the controversy in some way. After diving further into the details of the story, it's so painfully obvious that this tool was on a mission to brick the car. Musk completely owned the guy with the computer logs. The worst criticism I've seen leveled by Broder's supporters (all six of them) is that boo hoo, Tesla did not provide them with the raw log data. Really? This is all they have?

Sorry, touched a nerve! :)

Brian H | June 24, 2013

Danish? Norwegian? Swedish? Take your pick.

carlk | July 4, 2013

If you have some free time now and got nothing meaningful to do you can go to the Yahoo Financial TSLA forum and check out threads posted by the person named wilfordbenz. I'm sure you'll get a good laugh. It also makes one wonder if the same person has posted on this forum under different names.

David Dennis | July 4, 2013

I think the enthusiasm people show for the Tesla easily outweighs any of the complaints I've seen. There seems like a surprisingly low level of complaints if you consider how new and fresh the design is.

As someone who cannot afford the car at the present time, I can say that nothing on this forum would discourage me from buying a Tesla if I had the required income and/or assets. I hope that used Model Ss will eventually come down in price :).


tobi_ger | July 4, 2013

+1 David

Brian H | July 4, 2013

MS down in price? I doubt it. As long as demand is high at this price range, it'll stay there. TM may add features and capabilities as time goes on tho'. GenIII is the lower price point car.