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Shadow Braking during Autopilot still an issue?

Shadow Braking during Autopilot still an issue?

Now that more model 3 owners are getting Autopilot due to the price reduction, is shadow braking still a concern. In the past, there have been quite a few reports of the car braking randomly due to shadows from overpasses etc. Has anyone experienced this lately?

zerogravitydrgn | March 10, 2019

I haven’t had this happen in a long time. On 2018.50.6

Robertjmjrs | March 10, 2019

On a rural 25 mph residential street I use daily, every Tim I come to ascertain bend while on cruise control it makes a 4 chirp sound and brakes hard.

StealthP3D | March 10, 2019

When using NOA it slowed down at every exit, for no apparent reason when I was on the freeway. Then I shut off NOA, it didn't keep showing down.

billlake2000 | March 10, 2019

These are all well documented precursors to FSD.

SalisburySam | March 11, 2019

On 50.6 with EAP/FSD. Yes, still get unintended braking events, though far fewer than on earlier releases. Not yet a solved problem.

RedPillSucks | March 11, 2019

Only get this when I change lanes and the lane next to my target open lane has a car that triggers blind spot ping

Sidk83 | March 11, 2019

Are you still using Autopilot for long trips? I just ordered the Autopilot only upgrade and plan to take a road trip, so wanted to make sure if it’s safe without stating the obvious that driver will be alert at all times. I feel even if the driver is alert, phantom braking could be dangerous?

apodbdrs | March 11, 2019

I have never had my TESLA suddenly brake (phantom) as a result of a shadow or any other reason using Auto Pilot. I have been driving So Cal freeways since July 2018 in heavy traffic as welll as no traffic.

SteveWin1 | March 11, 2019

The phantom braking, at least for me, is no longer an issue. Yes, very rarely it will do a light phantom brake tap, but it is not the hard brake that it used to do and it is nowhere near as frequent.

@Sidk83, yes it is great for long trips. I use it every single day on every single drive. It works great. Just make sure to watch out for potholes and road debris. On local roads, also watch out for pedestrians, stop signs, stop lights (unless someone is in front of you), and USPS trucks that are partly pulled off the road.

charles.a.braun | March 11, 2019

@apodbdrs - Lucky you. But not to worry, I have had it happen enough for both of us.

Most recently it seems to be that TACC, for whatever reason, like to suddenly lock on to cars in the adjacent lanes and adjust my speed to theirs. Most of the time is is a car in the lane to my right but there have been a small number of occasions with cars to my left.

neylus | March 11, 2019

@charles.a.braun - I noticed this as well. Also, it seems that the car brakes for brake lights now. Meaning someone can be 10-15 car lengths ahead lightly tap their brake and the model 3 will slow unnecessarily. I had the trial period back in October and just purchased AP. It seems that AP is more erratic with braking now (perhaps overly cautious). My daughter was trying to read and said it was making her carsick so I turned it off :-/.

charles.a.braun | March 11, 2019

@neylus - TACC, when working properly, is actually basing its speed off of the vehicle in front of that guy directly in front of you. This is why your car seems to slow even though the car directly in front of you either is not slowing or just lightly taps their brakes for a moment.

Your car is actually reacting to the car in front of that guy in front of you.

kevin_rf | March 11, 2019

Today on the Mass Pike under a bridge with strong shadows.

TexasBob | March 11, 2019

Has not happened to me on highway since last Fall (use it every day). Used to happen routinely on a couple of bridges with shadows. Fixed for my routes.

rajivrag | March 11, 2019

It happened to me this evening under a Bridge with strong evening elongated shadows. It braked so hard that if there were a car 20-30 feet behind me, he would have crashed into me.

johnw | March 11, 2019

It has improved but still happens to me occasionally. I've had mine nearly 6 months now.

Hal Fisher | March 11, 2019

Charlesabraun, you are wrong about this because the issue can occur even when no one is in front of you. Apparently it can be caused by a sudden shadow, or some belief that the marked speed fir the road has changed (which I have personally seen the speed indicated for Int5 as 45 mph in more than one location.

gcklo | March 11, 2019

I did have any issue for a very long time. Then very bad with 2019.5.4. Seems like fixed with 2019.5.15

gcklo | March 11, 2019

I meant I didn’t have any issue for a very long time prior to 2019.5.4

rajivrag | March 11, 2019

I experienced this issue with 2019.5.15

eztider | March 12, 2019

It's an issue for me. Three times last Sunday on So Cal freeways in moderate traffic.

Sidk83 | March 12, 2019

With the issue still happening on the latest software release, are you still comfortable using AP? This seems dangerous from what some of you have described.

aperfectecho | March 12, 2019

Yes-had it happen this morning, after the latest update.

Not as marked (and to be fair, while I had it more frequently with the overpass shadows, it hadn't happened in a while)

This morning, no overpass, but with two semis operating in the next lane, a car creeped out into my lane between them, and accelerated. My car (after the other had gone, and even changed into another lane) started slowing down, fairly quickly.
Unusual, but I'll see what happens. I hover with my foot over accelerator just because of this stuff

rajivrag | March 12, 2019

It's dangerous and scary! Imagine if the car did that during auto lane change. FSD is a pipe dream.

LeePA | March 12, 2019

Yes, happened to me yesterday. On 280 just before the shadow of the Sand Hill Road overpass. I have 2019.5.15 software.

sjm4660 | March 12, 2019

I just got it this weekend. It happened to me yesterday but I wasn't in a shadow! I was on a bend and the car coming towards me on the opposite side of the median caused my M3 to brake - WTF! The car behind me was alarmed!

Sidk83 | March 12, 2019

Looks like a bunch of M3 owners are still experiencing this. I was excited to use AP after just ordering it, but will probably refrain from using it, until phantom braking issue is fully resolved. I’m surprised so many owners are still using it, even though this is a serious safety concern.

charles.a.braun | March 12, 2019

Its not like it's anything new. If Tesla has not fixed this in nearly 2 years, I would not count on them fixing it anytime soon.

alisse | March 12, 2019

I don't understand why the radar/sonar sensors don't account easily for this. If the camera "sees" an obstacle why can't it be verified as a shadow assuming those pass right through it. Using only an optical sensor seems like it's going be fooled fairly regularly.

Carl Thompson | March 12, 2019

@alisse:
"I don't understand why the radar/sonar sensors don't account easily for this. If the camera 'sees' an obstacle why can't it be verified as a shadow ..."

Because what your eyes and brain do every day is actually pretty darn complex and hard to code. One thing that the human brain is exceedingly good at is pattern recognition. You know instantly that that dark spot under a bridge is a shadow based on decades of personal experience using your eyeballs. You instantly can tell the difference between a shadow, a leaf, a fast food wrapper, paint on the road and something that might be a danger like a rock. Software struggles to do that in real time. It also doesn't help that Tesla's are mono rather than stereo so there's not always enough information to categorize something it sees. So Teslas (and other cars) take a crappy shortcut and assume that if it's not moving then it must be part of the road and nothing to worry about.

holgerv | March 12, 2019

Just happened again today. Just before an overpass. Cloudy sky, no direct sunlight.

rkalbiarEV | March 12, 2019

Yep, still an issue!

The Blue Meanie | March 12, 2019

Bummer. This is one of the reasons holding me back from buying AP. The discounted price is very tempting. However, during my trial at the end of last year, the first time I tried it on the highway, right when I thought to myself, wow this is awesome...the phantom brake kicked in and I almost crapped my pants. While there was someone behind me, fortunately he was a good 6 or 7 cars back.

maxyang | March 12, 2019

I've been having a similar problem since Navigate on Auto became available, its not an actual braking event for me, but just the car slowing down for no good reason at all. Very prominent on the 405 freeway even in the wee hours of the morning where there is no traffic the car will go from 75mph to 40mph gradually for no good reason. If I hit the accelerator pedal for a few seconds then it seems to go back to the 75mph setting. Its very strange.

alisse | March 12, 2019

@Carl Thompson I get that. Of course I do. I'm just offering that sight alone isn't necessarily enough to base if there is a solid object in front of the car, but the other sensors inherently have the ability to determine that. Like all things Tesla, I'm confident it will get better over time. But we already have the belt, how hard is it to put on suspenders?

Sidk83 | March 12, 2019

I’m surprised Teala is still allowing AP purchases/use age, after so many incidents due to shadow braking.

rajivrag | March 12, 2019

The ironic thing is for FSD to work, TACC has to work flawlessly and clearly it seems that's not practically possible yet, might never ever be.

imjgruver | March 12, 2019

I've experienced several phantom breaking symptoms, and especially roadway width changes so the car weaves trying to maintain the centerline. Must look just like a drunk driver.

But I put up with all of the "problems". When it's working, it's unbeatable.

Sidk83 | March 12, 2019

Teslagrub - so none of the several “problems” you think could have been serious? Why would you still use it then? I feel like I’m missing a point. Seems like a lot of people use AP, even though there are problems beyond anyone’s control

Azred50 | March 12, 2019

Shadow braking is eliminated by FSD, so buy FSD before the price goes up on Monday.

Love,
Elon

gcklo | March 12, 2019

I didn't have any issue before 2019.5.4. Autopilot worked awesome for many months, no issue. Average 45 to 50 miles everyday in Autopilot on my commute.

I started having terrible braking issue with 2019.5.4. Almost not usable.

I only drove 2019.5.15 for 1 day so jury is still out if I still have any issue.

rsingh05 | March 12, 2019

I use EAP multiple times a week. Never had a SINGLE instance of unwanted braking, shadow or otherwise. Can't relate to anything on this thread, real or imagined.

charles.a.braun | March 13, 2019

@rsingh05 - This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKz3MtaB3m4 is for you so you can experience what it is like to be rolling along at 70 and suddenly have the car start braking for no reason.

As you can see, the speed limit sign never changes (no misinterpreting the speed limit of the road we were on)

As you can see, AP and TACC were engaged the entire time that the car was slowing and TACC set speed never changed from the set 70MPH (No TACC or AP disengagement slowing the car)

No overpasses or other shadows (blows the shadow theory out of the water)

No cars in front to cause slow down (Car passing does not count and had no impact on this experience.)

Sidk83 | March 13, 2019

This is definitely something that Tesla needs to address ASAP. I’m surprised it’s not being voiced more often!

Sidk83 | March 13, 2019

This is definitely something that Tesla needs to address ASAP. I’m surprised it’s not being voiced more often!

rsingh05 | March 13, 2019

@Charles.a.braun, all I see is the car slowing down, gradually from 70 to ~50. Can't tell if brakes were applied for example.

Not saying the car would never ever slow down on its own, but yet to see verifiable evidence. In my experience this has never happened to me and I see the same 3-4 names on this thread voicing this as a big issue without any evidence.

beaver | March 13, 2019

Shadow braking not an issue for me with AP+FSD, but my car does brake unnecessarily for cars stopped or going slow in the adjacent lane, hopefully this improves.

Hal Fisher | March 13, 2019

Just drive too close behind me, you’ll get your ‘evidence’.

ODWms | March 13, 2019

I’ve had it happen, more than once in the 1st month and a half or so I owned the car. I don’t use EAP as much as I did in the beginning, for multiple reasons. This is definitely one.

Sidk83 | March 13, 2019

Has anyone seen this happening on the latest software update? Please share your experience.

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