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Ghost avoidance?

Ghost avoidance?

I am driving on the same (non-highway) road in both directions at least twice a day. With Autopilot engaged the car used to swerve hard to the right. With older software versions it would have driven off the road had I not taken over. Same spot every time, right in front of a fire station, in each direction.
Now, after the last two software updates, it seems they have corrected this problem although the steering wheel still shakes a couple of times like it's trying to avoid something but now the car autocorrects and stays on the road.
This is a normal street with a speed limit of 40 mph and a turning lane in between the two driving lanes. There are no obstructions.
What could cause this?

mrburke | May 13, 2019

Is there a fire hydrant nearby ?
If so, look for the blue reflector. Thank might be the cause.

yul.mike | May 14, 2019

@mrburke Nope. No hydrant there. Besides, I drive by hydrants all the time but this only happens at this very spot. It really baffles me.

kevin_rf | May 14, 2019

Teslacam it to see if anyone else can figure it out?

Also, use the bug report option. Maybe Tesla can.

foodking | May 14, 2019

based on autonomy day, everytime you manually take it out of AP, they automatically log your data. Does that mean we don't have to manually report incidents where we manually take over?

stopnair | May 14, 2019

autopilot is not for streets yet.

derotam | May 14, 2019

So when it was swerving, did you know the cause? Without us seeing video of the area in question there would be no real way for us to make reasonable comments.

dsvick | May 14, 2019

Without seeing a video we can't really help, even then there could be any number of things that the car is reacting to. On a road near my house there is spot where mine always slows down as if it suddenly detects something in front of it, it's a flat road with no large signs, no curves, no dips, no large rocks or anything else I can see that would cause it. Since the car corrects itself I just file a bug report and say phantom TACC braking.

lordmiller | May 14, 2019

Mine avoids ghosts automatically all the time!

cmh95628 | May 14, 2019

About a year ago there was an issue with phantom breaking going under an overpass, and some thought that the shadow line (on the ground) was being interpreted by the AP AI as an obstacle. Any shadow lines nearby? I agree with those suggesting that you post a video. Might help.

yul.mike | May 14, 2019

@stopnair: Thanks mom

yul.mike | May 14, 2019

There are no obstacles, shadows, weirdly painted lines on the road, no construction or similar. Just a wide open, straight road with nothing out of the ordinary. I will try to post a video but I doubt that it'll help since there's really nothing to see.
I filed several bug reports, especially at the beginning when the M3 would actually drive off the road. I also reported it to a service guy. Never heard anything back.

mckee120 | May 14, 2019

I have a similar issue with speed. No obstacles and at same location... when cruise or AP are on the vehicle slams on brakes for a second, hesitates and then resumes.

tm4000m | May 14, 2019

@lordmiller I understand, I haven't hit a ghost yet! (wait, would I know if I had???)

mrburke | May 14, 2019

Auto-pilot or no auto-pilot. Just make sure you never ever cross the streams.
That would be BAD.

CharleyBC | May 14, 2019

@yul.mike, can you please post a dashcam clip from at least the front camera so we can see what you're talking about? Then we can pretend our wild-ass guesses are well-informed. But seriously, it'd be really helpful to visualize. Maybe both directions of travel, if you please.

EVRider | May 14, 2019

Phantom braking = ghost avoidance? :-)

-TheJohn- | May 14, 2019

AP works amazingly on city streets btw.
It's far past time to retire that particular bleat. All you have to remember is 4 things. 1: You're in control at all times. 2: It doesn't know what a stop sign is. Yet. 3: It doesn't know what a stop light is. Yet. 4: You're in control at all times.. It's driver assist, not driver removed from the responsibility chain .

I use it every day I drive and man it's amazing to watch the neural net gain skills.

casun | May 14, 2019

carol anne, run to the light!

billlake2000 | May 15, 2019

Get out your shovel and start digging. You will eventually run into the giant ass magnet they buried out there.

yul.mike | June 10, 2019

I finally got around to film the event. By focusing on the blue solid lines on the screen one can see how the car briefly swerves just after clearing the intersection. The steering wheel twitches briefly as well.
Again, this happens almost every time in this exact spot and it also occurs when driving in the opposite direction. I will try to film that too and post it here.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1I9qqQfNEHbRSnbO6RXOFHXRWoKA1Nf8o

gballant4570 | June 10, 2019

You gotta ask the AI......

Neomaxizoomdweebie | June 10, 2019

Believe me, you want it to miss the ghosts. All that ectoplasm!

yul.mike | June 10, 2019

Funny Neo

vmulla | June 10, 2019

Very interesting! Excellent video BTW, I'm glad you captured the autopilot visualization on the screen as well. Clearly the car thinks the road is curving, but why?
I'll try to find instances like this and try it.

yul.mike | June 11, 2019

Thanks vmulla. The weird thing is that the car does this going in either direction. Both times it's trying to steer to the right, almost as if something was in the middle of the road and the Tesla was trying to avoid it. Then again, as you pointed out, it thinks the road is curving.
With previous software versions this behaviour was much more pronounced. In fact, it was so bad that the car would have driven off the road had I not taken over and corrected. Will try to get footage of the other direction today.

Patrick | June 11, 2019

I noticed two changes in the lane markings at that spot - the right line changes from solid to dotted and the left line opens up into the left turn lane. On a few occasions I’ve seen my car briefly hunt for the right path when the left line opens like that, especially since running 16.2.

It’s almost like the sensitivity of the cams/sensors was dialed-up a notch with 16.2, which I’ve been assuming is another move toward watching stoplights, etc....

yul.mike | June 11, 2019

Here's the same issue but this time going in the other direction. The road is as straight as can be and there are no obstructions, construction or weirdly painted lines on the pavement yet the blue lines twitch noticeably twice and so does the car.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15olkvl5WJZF9O3ajQzsrKYyW_TbYpdqh/view

yul.mike | June 11, 2019

And just to show that I'm able to reproduce the same error, I drove down the road again. Same results. Keep an eye on the blue lines.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17oPlXMmmiP1TNJ2W2DkiK4peGNfZW_7V/view

Neomaxizoomdweebie | June 11, 2019

It looks like the car briefly interprets the bright white fence as an edge marker and begins to move the car to re-center until it realizes that no, it's not a edge marker, it's a fence.
The one where you're coming from the opposite direction looks like it does the same thing but with the new piece of sidewalk beginning immediately after a blacktop surface.

yul.mike | June 11, 2019

Thanks Neo. What I find weird though is that with all the driving I'm doing this only happens in this very spot. If your assumptions were the explanation for this behaviour then I'm sure there would be other instances where the car would recognize similar objects as edge makers and react the same way but that's just not the case.

Neomaxizoomdweebie | June 11, 2019

True. True.

vmulla | June 11, 2019

The universe is telling you to avoid that spot.

Daryl | June 11, 2019

@yul.mike "@stopnair: Thanks mom"
+1

cquail | June 11, 2019

Find another Tesla owner to drive the same road and see what happens. Post the road location here and some one else will try it.

vmulla | June 11, 2019

@cquail,
Great idea!

yul.mike | June 12, 2019

Here are the coordinates: 28°10'21.5"N 80°36'21.4"W
Map: https://goo.gl/maps/s1YTHPmrrNrUYEZ67

Elektra3 | June 14, 2019

I noticed the car hesitate--going about 50mph on a freeway when the color of the asphalt changed to a lighter color. Shades of the old overpass problem?

gagilmartin | June 17, 2019

Unrelated, I get a BUS appearing next to me, mostly on the left, randomly when NOTHING is nearby (greater than 10ft). If I put on my blinker, RED bus ALARM and if i proceed CORRECTION attempt that I override ALARM bus goes away NOTIFICATION of error. TESLA IS NOT RESPONDING to my phone calls to the service people at their local dealership who told me I would be contacted (3 times now).
Phantom, Ghost, whatever vehicle, are they now standard equipment with Tesla updates? THEY didn't come with the car. :-)

diaphone | June 17, 2019

The AP system seems to be misinterpreting the curving of the double yellow lines. The lines suddenly turn away from the car, which is also what it would see if the car starting to drift to the right. It's symmetric, in that the same thing happens if you were going southbound. This s-bend of the double yellow line is not something I've seen anywhere I've lived, on either coast. Normally, when a lane is added on the left for turning, there is a raised physical divider, or at least a wide split double yellow with diagonal hatching, for a safety no-man's land.

yul.mike | June 19, 2019

@diaphone I think you might be onto something. I didn't think that the painted lines were out of the ordinary but it sure looks like they have something to do with the behaviour of the car. The weird thing is that on that particular street there are several spots with lines painted exactly the same way yet in no other instance the car "twitches".

spuzzz123 | June 19, 2019

Used to be dangerous, now a minor annoyance...things seem to be improving so that's good. Sounds like at this point you are just more curious than concerned?

sean | June 19, 2019

I think it's just that it loses the lines - the yellow line goes off the left and then the white bike lane line turns to a 'dashed' and drive lane gets really wide. The blue lines in AP squiggle real fast a the end as if it can't determine where they are any more, then catches back up.

yul.mike | June 19, 2019

@spuzzz123 Actually, yesterday I was driving southbound in AP mode and when I passed the fire station the car twitched and briefly activated the brakes. There was another car in front of me but it was distant enough to not be the cause for the sudden braking. No other vehicles, pedestrians or objects in sight. This is the first time this happened.

@sean I always assumed that Teslas not only rely on the painted lines but also use the cam info to determine which way the road leads. On this particular street there are other similar painted line patterns but none trigger the same behaviour.

leo33 | June 19, 2019

I notice black tire marks turning into the driveway matching right where the blue lane lines glitch in the video. No doubt they'll be able to train this out of the NN.