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Climate change: There is 3 types of people

Climate change: There is 3 types of people

1) People who change their habits
2) People who say they care
3) People who deny climate changes
Planet doesn’t see any difference between type 2 and type 3.

Lately, I have been arguing too much on Twitter and Instagram against type 3, I need an Instabrake.

andy.connor.e | December 1, 2019

Ya i didnt really mean it to be directed at darth. Its relevant to anyone.

SamO | December 1, 2019

I’ve never read, met or heard a climate extremist. Could some reputable poster link to these unicorns?

rxlawdude | December 1, 2019

In the same way the GOP and it's Pravda (Fox "News") label every Democrat as a radical left-wing socialist.

Nuance is missed by conservaretreads.

SCCRENDO | December 1, 2019

I always listen to a certain degree. When they with their outrageous bullshit unless they can show some support for their data I tune out. The deniers have taught me nothing.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

The bottom line is that more efficiency and cleaner energy is a good thing. But frothing at the mouth and claiming that the world as about to end is silly. It's also unrealistic to think EVs are the solution to a problem who that doesn't exist and with roots that are in energy production itself.

rxlawdude | December 1, 2019

"It's also unrealistic to think EVs are the solution to a problem..."

It's realistic to put you on twit filter.

Angelo A | December 1, 2019

For 40 years now, they have been saying the world is going to end in 12 years, that's a pretty extreme statement to make and it makes it very easy to dismiss everything else that person is saying.

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/18-spectacularly-wrong-predictions-made-a...

These types of extremist positions/statements make people ignore the message instead of looking to help. If you dont see those as extreme, that's part of the problem and you'll continue to run into walls when trying to educate people that dont agree with you.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

@Angelo the issue I have isn't the fanatics, there are always crazy people, it is the politicians who are using them for ulterior motives. Normal technological progress and the free market will solve these issues most effectively. Making more efficient cars relative to competitors will cause more sales. More sales of more efficient cars will be better for the environment.

SCCRENDO | December 1, 2019

@Angelo. It is unclear where you get your facts from. Who exactly said the world would end in 40 years. That is the kind of propaganda that is pushed on Foxnews.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

Only 11 Years Left to Prevent Irreversible Damage from Climate Change, Speakers Warn during General Assembly High-Level Meeting: https://www.un.org/press/en/2019/ga12131.doc.htm

SCCRENDO | December 1, 2019

@Darth. You still do not know how to read. You continue to make up shit and people like Angelo believe you. If we do not act soon there will be irreversible damage. That is fact not fiction. That is very different from saying the world will end in 40 years. What to me is sad that there are so many people in the US that are too stupid to separate fact from fiction.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

There will not be "irreversible" damage. Earth's climate is always changing. It's arrogant to think you're going to fix it in one permanent state. Earth will be fine and humans will adapt as we always have. You're going to have to get used to it.

Mark K | December 1, 2019

You have to be fair, and listen to all relevant facts, not cherry-pick those that support your argument.

Let’s suppose that anthropogenic climate change is not the dominant influence.

Logically, wouldn’t you still not want to make it worse?

By changing our act, we also change our focus.

That helps us engineer whatever else we should do to stabilize livable conditions on earth.

If we change our thinking, we most definitely can achieve whatever needs to be done.

Folks stuck in the denial phase, can’t even begin to mobilize bigger picture thinking to beat the problem.

Eventually, we’ll have assert our abilities to move around, when the sun expands.

Why not have an open mindset early?

People who fight don’t get much done for anybody.

Cooperation wins big.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

Mark if you don't meddle, it will happen as it is happened on its own. No one forced half a million people to buy Teslas. Just make good products. The same applies to ICEVs. They are competing against each other and the more efficient versions succeed. The same applies to energy in general. Just leave it alone and it will improve.

Angelo A | December 1, 2019

@SCCRENDO I do my own research and make up my own decisions on things, don't lump me into a conversation that I can tell has been going on with a few of you guys on here.

Secondly, I literally just posted a link that will answer that question and no, it's not Fox News. If you're not open to dialogue with someone that doesnt agree with you 100% , then I'll just remove myself from this conversation.

I believe we learn more by not staying in an echo chamber and actively seeking out opinions that challenge us to back up our beliefs or accept a new one.

Heres a video that will make you really think, especially when people talking about the massive disaster that's headed our way are buying property where they are;

https://youtu.be/NjlC02NsIt0

Before you watch it though, this guy has a bad mouth and I dont like how he delivers his message, just what his message is. If language like that may offend you, please dont watch the video.

Again, I'm not denying that we are having an effect on the Earth. I'm also a big proponent of renewable energy and finding better ways to power our lives. What I believe that is making it impossible to make real change with the masses is the sensationalist/extremist claims that are garnering all the attention.

Mark K | December 1, 2019

Darth - if only. Yes, please please follow your excellent prescription.

Not meddling would be awesome. So big oil should -

1. Not fund short selling to resist Tesla’s financial growth.

2. Not pay lobbyists to disrupt air quality standards long in effect.

3. Not fund PR trolls on this forum and elsewhere to push disinformation narrative.

4. Not buy up patents for promising battery tech, and then forbid it’s use in cars. (Texaco, NiMH, Ovshinky).

5. Not crush EV1’s that owners loved.

Owners overwhelmingly love their Tesla’s, and stop buying gas. All on their own, even as incentives expire.

Fuel for EVs costs 1/3 of gasoline. It’s way preferable economically.

If market forces were truly allowed to play out without oil countermeasures, we’d be much further along now.

But the point of professional spin like yours is indeed to interfere with natural market equilibrium, to prolong profits of a receding industry.

Thank you for helping illustrate the problem with the behavior of fossil fuel interests.

If gas were better, they wouldn’t need any of these tricks. Just offer the best bargain for fuel.

But they can’t, cause it isn’t a good deal anymore.

So of course they have to push BS.

That long history is why there is such antipathy now.

Tesla’s are

Mark K | December 1, 2019

Tesla’s are already better than gas cars, now, today.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

Mark that's your opinion but it is not true for everyone. Teslas are great cars but they are still a compromise vs ICEV. That's just a technological and economic fact. When they can charge as fast as refueling, when enough charging infrastructure is built out, when they have the same or better range, when they don't cost more then ICEV and when they can be mass produced in enough volume to meet demand, only then will that be true. But for the near future that isn't the case. You need to separate your preference for Tesla vs the reality of the state of the art.

NKYTA | December 1, 2019

The Darth emperor has not clothes, nor common sense, nor decency.

Which he probably can’t spell.

NKYTA | December 1, 2019

+2 Mark K

SCCRENDO | December 1, 2019

@Mark. +100. Thanks for your input.
@Angelo. Appreciate your opinion. I still think you are misinformed wherever you get your opinions from.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

Mark you can get a Kia Optima for under $25,000, range of 650 miles and with CO2 emissions roughly equal to Model S charging on the grid. No EV can match that yet. Sure, it's a Kia, not a Tesla. But take the brand name away and look at the capabilities of the Kia's engine/gas vs Model S motors/battery relative to cost and it's not even close. If you're so worried about the environment then you shouldn't be buying a large heavy EV for vanity reasons. You should be buying the most efficient car you can that's just big enough to get you from point a to b. That's being objective.

Mark K | December 1, 2019

‘Darth’ in the same sentence as ‘fact’ has now become an oxymoron.

Akin to having a conversation about social justice aspirations ... with a nazi.

Seinfeld brought us the soup-nazi.

Darth now dutifully plays the role of ‘oil-nazi’.

To similar comedic effect.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

More childish ad hominem from rich virtue signaling snobs. You guys better be careful what you wish for. Someday you just might get a real climate fanatic in office that decides to tax you based on your real environmental footprint. You won't like that if you drive a Tesla... https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2019-08-27/singapore-won-...

Mark K | December 1, 2019

And just to not confuse you here Darth - we’re not laughing with you, we’re laughing at you.

Angelo A | December 1, 2019

Well, you're both kind of right.

The Tesla vehicles are better vehicles. Their shortcomings are what keep ICE vehicles a better option for most people. When they get to the point where you can get an entire day of operation out of them carrying/towing what they are rated for, they will become the only thing people look at.

When you can use them all day and then charge them overnight, the need to be able to quickly fill up and hit the road will no longer matter, at that time EV's will rule the world.

At this point, the only reason that I'm not going all EV's in my household is because we cant make them work with the driving we do.

Mark K | December 1, 2019

Angelo - for sure, everybody has different use cases.

For mine, I bought both MS’s with twin chargers, for 80 Amp charging at home.

I can top-off a mile a minute in my driveway. This has worked out great. To me, its’s way more convenient than gassing up my prior Mercedes.

And when we can install home superchargers, pumped by affordable mega-powerwalls, fed by our roofs, we’ll like that even more.

On the other hand, I’m pretty sure we won’t be seeing a gasoline-maker in our driveways, ever.

SCCRENDO | December 1, 2019

I am an all Tesla household. I have a 2013 Model S with 168000 miles and a 2017 Model 3 with 47000 miles. So don’t tell me it’s not possible to have an all EV household.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

I think in the next 5 years we'll start seeing the first prototypes of EVs that are similar enough to ICEVs that the differences won't matter for 90%+ of potential buyers. 5 years after that, like 2030-ish, they'll be available. The infrastructure to support them in volume will come in that decade. At that point the biggest challenge will be supply of critical raw materials. I don’t think the EVs of that time will be using lithium ion batteries like today’s cars. It may be an evolution of today’s Li but it’s not likely to be the same technology.

Mark K | December 1, 2019

More sales narrative to delay the dip in gas car sales, now that more folks have woken up to EVs.

‘If we can just buy our factory 5 years, we‘ll catch up.’

Basically, he’s pushing you to buy one more gas car, before you switch.

Those 5 years are now in the past, and Daimler and Audi are already cutting workforce to deal with it.

NKYTA | December 1, 2019

@Angelo, don’t get twisted by Darth’s falsehoods.

I have 110,000 miles on the oldest Tesla Model S Performance. I’ve circled the country more than thrice. I’ve hit over 500 unique SuperChargers, and likely triple that of non-unique SCs. In all kinds of weather.

Getting a charge from your home is a deal breaker.

“At this point, the only reason that I'm not going all EV's in my household is because we cant make them work with the driving we do.”

Do tell. Tesla EVs have already done it. Cross the US, done. Arctic Circle US done. All the way down S America, done very early.

Don’t buy DarthBigOil. He has an agenda.

I have a great car.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

My only agenda is to talk about the state of the art and my car. I don’t know or speak for any poster here. Unlike some others, I’m also not here to be an evangelist or preacher. @Angelo as you may have noticed I’m quite popular with certain posters who emphasize they can’t stand me but find it necessary to respond and participate in every discussion I’m in. I regret that you have to endure that.

SamO | December 1, 2019

Lies are difficult to ignore. That’s why you lie. It’s not because of your personality which resembles a dollop of Mr Burns and Jim Jones.

Angelo A | December 1, 2019

@SCCRENDO I never said it's not possible to have an all EV household, I said my household cant do it because of the driving we do. The time we have to cover the ground we do does not allow for the time it takes to charge.

https://youtu.be/yjklex38lkQ

I have found one video after another that shows your range while towing is anywhere from 33% to 60% of the vehicle range and that will not work for me.

That being said, I have no need to buy another vehicle for the next couple years which as it turns out, lines up perfect for the CT production. I fully intend to make that my next vehicle purchase and have secured my reservation. Darth is doing nothing to deter me if that's what you guys are thinking.

Mark K | December 1, 2019

Darth’s done plenty of selling for Porsche Taycan here. Agenda is pretty self-evident.

He sold his cred on objectivity a while ago.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

And why would I want to deter anyone in any case. I’m on the list for my 3rd Tesla. Any for the same reasons as some others I also own a gas powered vehicle. We aren’t ever going to be a monolithic group.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

No Mark, I told you Taycan is a faster better performing sports car vs Model S which is true.

SCCRENDO | December 1, 2019
Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

Reality check: “Some 50 world leaders are expected to attend the meeting in the Spanish capital - but US President Donald Trump will not be among them.” - No Trump, no deal.

SCCRENDO | December 1, 2019

Exactly
ITMFA

Mark K | December 1, 2019

Darth’s references to trump are a trick to polarize EV enthusiast discussion into distraction on politics.

It’s a deliberate diversion.

Plenty of conservatives think trump’s epa is broken.

Plenty of liberals think getting China to play by the same rules is necessary.

Most Americans agree on more things than their political parties do.

More reasons to distrust a synthetic persona named Darth.

Sowing hate for money is about as low as it gets.

Darthamerica | December 1, 2019

Well since that’s also not going to happen, looks like you’re just going to have to wait for the free market and technology to address your concerns by the time your great grandchildren are driving whatever cars exist in that time. That being the case let’s talk rationally about reality.

MitchP85D | December 2, 2019

I think Tesla should break into the ICE market. Produce a 50-60 mpg commuter car. Compete directly against the 4-cylinder economy cars - something better than a Smart car. I think Tesla could do that if they wanted to. But that is a big IF.

AnglaGadapee | December 2, 2019

I don't think we say we don't care about climate changes because still nature is more powerful. I care and yes, change habits as well.

RedShift | December 2, 2019

@darth

Ah, the free market.

Why do we have subsidies on gasoline still? Do any of the conservative worthies have any complaints about that?

No.

Flaming hypocrites.

Show your free market fake principles up your backsides. No intelligent person believes in your narrative anymore.

RedShift | December 2, 2019

Show=shove

Darthamerica | December 2, 2019

Hmm the USG subsidizing a strategic resource? Imagine that! It also sudd subsidizes EVs too and you benefited from that. What’s your point

SCCRENDO | December 2, 2019

Meanwhile. Despite the idiotic ideas of our denier trolls, let’s get back to facts. Yes Trump is an obstacle but all the more reason to ITMFA
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50614518

Darthamerica | December 2, 2019

@SCC if you want to get on topic get out of the echo chamber, calling people trolls and posting propaganda. Tell me why you think what you think without making personal attacks on people. I hope by now you realize that’s the only hope you have to get people to listen to you? I hope you realize this is why half the country voted for Trump and why they will vote for him a second time. You need to change methods if you want to be heard by others who don’t already agree with you.

RedShift | December 2, 2019

@darth

One could argue that solar and EV are also a strategic source since it allows us to get out of endless wars to protect the so called up strategic source of yours. So why rail against only the renewables?

One reason could be the source of your paycheck!

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