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Got LEAFed

Got LEAFed

At work there are 2 charging statios for approximately 20 EV owner.
When I get there in the morning there are always the 2 same Volts Charging every morning they get their around 7:30 AM.
The rule is maximum 4h charge, so at noon people run to get their car plugged and there are 2 other Volts that usually get there around 12:15 to plug in till 4PM.
Since I couldn’t charge home and it was -5 I went to plug in at 7PM before starting a case and there was this Bolt charging to 15 minutes on the stall indicator and a Leaf on the 2nd stall plugged in but not charging on the screen indicator with 1 inch of snow on the car meant it was there for minimum 2-3 hours. So that Leaf owner gets to work starting his shift at 4PM, plugs in it’s Leaf, doesn’t start the charge by scanning his EV Flo card, stays there without charging while highjacking à stall. Since I was around 20% and he wasn’t charging from what I could see on the stall screen I unplugged his Leaf, parked on the closest spot and plugged my Model 3. Wrote down on the snow on his car, sorry, was at 20%.

Finally, when I left 3 hours later, having charged 21kWh, his Leaf was still there, so I plugged it back and activated the charge with my EV Flo card so he could charge. I was surprised to receive the usual email from the Flo network that it charged from 9 PM to 11:30 PM for 12 kWh.

It means he gets in, park and plug, doesn’t activate charging till he comes in at the end of his shift scan his card to activate charging and get his battery warm and charged right before leaving. A 2h charge for an 8h LEAFing of à charging spot.

First time this practice comes to my attention.

yudansha™ | February 16, 2020

@red misogynist? Poor boy. What did women do to you to deserve so much hatred in every other post. Did they burn bras in your backyard?

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

I'd attend the bra-burning

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

"@red misogynist? Poor boy. What did women do to you to deserve so much hatred in every other post."

The "detailed" conspiracy theory posts, the misogyny are check boxes for people who have ended up attacking strangers over the "rejection" by women and society. As FBI notes when the posts turns into action is usually a low percentage but the markers are always there.

But without moderation, the repetitive off topic misogynistic conspiracy theories will continue. Tesla actually stepped in when one of the regular fabois manifestos got too extreme but otherwise they keep allowing the posts and few other websites will so we are stuck with them.

Now back to the topic of sharing work place EV's and work place charging solutions.

yudansha™ | February 16, 2020

If the dealerships nearby will provide free charging why would anybody charge at work and pay premium? I can charge for free at local malls, hotels and SC.

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

the only person who is talking about conspiracy theories, is the person who wants people to believe that there are conspiracy theories.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

"If the dealerships nearby will provide free charging why would anybody charge at work and pay premium?"

Most of the delaerships, Hyundai for example offers free lifetime charging at dealeship, are slow Level 2's. Now if the dealerships would each put in two service and two customer fast chargers, THAT would be a huge help in providing a good network of public chargers. Charge rates of around $0.30 a kWh so people don't abuse it but it would be great for me as I pass Ford and Hyundai dealers all along my commute. A Ford dealership right across the street the from the Woodburn SC on my way home from work.

jallred | February 16, 2020

Work chargers are not much more than outlets. Can get the charger for $400 on Amazon. Shouldn’t be 75k unless you have 20 of them or maybe if you can’t park next to building. Few places where I work that have pay per use never ever have anyone charging at them. I’m not impressed with companies that put in chargers but make employees pay for them. That’s an employee investment not a corporate investment. It’s hypocritical to complain that Tesla cares more about profits and not about mission and then support a company that won’t pay for chargers.

Earl and Nagin ... | February 16, 2020

I heard that the price of tea in China is at an all time high.

Now can we get back on topic?

Its 2020. Any company with more than about 100 employees that only provides 2 charging stations, might as well just take them out. That isn't enough to do the job and will only add stress to the corporate culture.

Any company who wants to install chargers for its employees should adopt a sustainable means that will enable it to grow to meet the ever increasing need.

jallred | February 16, 2020

CCS spec actually prohibits adapters. Also requires liquid-cooling and temperature sensing at the contacts at the car. Power would be seriously limited without cooling at pins. Eu ccs has double the pins on the l2 portion of the connector. That allows Tesla to hack an adapter for lower power vehicles. Will never work with us Tesla connector unless charge rate is seriously limited.

Never going to happen.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

"Can get the charger for $400 on Amazon."

Commercial level chargers are more like $7k per. Allowing two cars to share a 50A/240V circuit. They are sophisticated devices with charge card ability, networked, adjustable, able to handle commercial use and abuse.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

"CCS spec actually prohibits adapters. "

Apparently not as here's Tesla's CCS adapter for sale for $200.

"Tesla To Offer CCS Adapter For Model S, X In Europe"

https://insideevs.com/news/342594/tesla-to-offer-ccs-adapter-for-model-s...

jallred | February 16, 2020

Commercial level chargers are more like $7k per.-fish

So what? I charge at multiple workplaces that use the $400 charger. Plus you could wear it out about 17 times before you reach the cost of a 7k charger.

They are sophisticated devices with charge card ability, networked, adjustable, able to handle commercial use and abuse.-fish

Make it free and you don’t need charge cards. Juice box is networked, adjustable and you can use 2 per circuit.

Whatever, waste your money as you wish.

jallred | February 16, 2020

Apparently not as here's Tesla's CCS adapter for sale for $200.-fish

Specification is clear. Read it.

jallred | February 16, 2020

Here is the standards committee’s position paper.

https://www.charinev.org/fileadmin/Downloads/Papers_and_Regulations/Char...

jallred | February 16, 2020

They say adapters are not trivial. Fish says they are trivial. I’ll go with the standards committee.

Earl and Nagin ... | February 16, 2020

It would appear that, because everything comes back to their rhetoric, @Fish is in the employ of one or more companies trying to make a living selling EV charging networks and/or equipment.
@jallred,
While the document you dug up does not preclude adapters, it certainly could scare out a company trying to make them. I have heard rumors, however, that, after signing the license agreeing to the terms of the CCS standard, that one is legally precluded from making an adapter. The document you referred to certainly supports their taking that position even if the real motivation is anti-EV or at least anti-Tesla (which, in the eyes of most SAE members, is the same thing) in nature.
What better way to try to stab Tesla in the back but to:
- delay the finalization of the CCS standard until well after Tesla had to sell cars or it would go out of business
- when you finally do release the standard, preclude the use of adapters in order to force EV buyers into choosing between Tesla or the other standard, thus limiting Tesla drivers as much as you limit those with CCS.
- whine to EU government officials who are stupid, parochial, and possibly a little corrupt, that Tesla's connectors are "Proprietary" and anti-social, unlike the "Open Standard" CCS, of which the US version really isn't (it requires agreement to a closed license agreement) either.
This forces a fight, even if Tesla will obviously win in the long run. It will, however, force customers to make decisions that would, otherwise, be unnecessary, thus slowing down the acceptance of EVs that can challenge ICE.

Earl and Nagin ... | February 16, 2020

My company has been using EVSEs that were the same as those sold commercially for nearly 9 years now. They are UL listed for industrial use and only cost a few hundred US$.
I don't know what the bottom feeder is talking about regarding "commercial level". If he's talking about remotely networked ones, we've already established that they are unnecessary and will end up costing more money for those who buy and use them.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

“Make it free and you don’t need charge cards. “

It’s not free. Costs a lot to build and maintain. People will respect it more if they pay for it. As someone who pays at public chargers every day, it’s not an issue to pay a fair price, it is an issue to have convenient local charging.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

Our workforce is young and eco oriented area of an eco oriented state, and it pays well so very likely EV buyer demographic. Offering them the ability to charge, the ability to make the commute in an EV, will attract employees.

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

Theres two ways to look at it. You can install chargers today, and that would entice people to stop in that location to charge. Plenty of areas where people have indicated that because they stopped at a supercharger, they went into the stores nearby. If chargers brought in more business, thats another way to pay for them. Making them free would make it that much more likely for people to use those chargers. You could still charge, but keep it super low as a means to not completely take the hit.

Earl and Nagin ... | February 16, 2020

@FISH,
You idiot. What the intelligent people here are saying is that your company will pay more to provide the service your stupid way than they would by just installing cheap chargers and paying for the electricity.
AND your target demographic will be happier because they won't have to fuss with stupid fobs or apps.
Another real world example I can share is that for a while, we had AeroVironment Turbodocks for 8 of our spaces outside one building and we had 4 legacy non-networked EVSEs for 4 more spaces. The 4 non-networked EVSEs were always the first to be used because folks hated having to turn on their smartphones to turn on the Turbodocks. All were free but the simple non-networked EVSEs were much more popular with everyone.
Now we only have basic dumb non-networked EVSEs and everyone is happy (except we need more).

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | February 16, 2020

@Earl and Nagin ... | February 16, 2020
“@FISH,
You idiot.”

Most accurate and succinct post I’ve seen.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

" What the intelligent people here are saying is that your company will pay more to provide the service your stupid way than they would by just installing cheap chargers and paying for the electricity."

Except the intelligent people paying for want to see it pay for itself. Golden rule.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | February 16, 2020

Inflating the cost in order to be able to pinpoint payback is a special kind of genius.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

"Inflating the cost in order to be able to pinpoint payback is a special kind of genius."

We call it a business plan. Not sure it takes genius, a good accountant can do it, an average person can do it. What is the payback breakeven point on our EV charger system.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | February 16, 2020

“ What is the payback breakeven point on our EV charger system.”

∞, if your success with home charging is anything to go by.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/ce2b7n/ev_charging_st...

Earl and Nagin ... | February 16, 2020

@Fish,
Were you honest and really cared, you'd see that the wiz-kids you're trying to attract are not going to be impressed with having to pay $0.50/KWhr from your company when electricity is only about $0.10 where they live. Your company is going to have to pay about $0.40/KWhr to offset the costs of your unsustainable stupid system.
If you'd listen, you could get by paying only about $0.11/KWhr and giving their electricity for free.
That's ok though. We need those wiz-kids too. Thanks for making it easier for us to attract the good ones.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

“Were you honest and really cared, you'd see that the wiz-kids you're trying to attract are not going to be impressed with having to pay $0.50/KWhr from your company when electricity is only about $0.10 where they live.”

Sheesh...if the boy’s went with that a right now, I’d offer them InOutBurgers every day. For those of us without home charging, work would be home charging and kiss the pavement thankful to have it for $0.50 kWh. As would the kids. It’s the guilt free access and the freedom it provides not being cheaper than gasoline which it is even when buying from public chargers.

WW_spb | February 16, 2020

We already know Fish loves rip off schemes

Earl and Nagin ... | February 16, 2020

"As would the kids"
Now I know why FISH's employers, EVgo and EA, are in such bad shape. They're only attracting "the kids" from the short bus, not the model rocket club.
. . . and thanks for the Fish. (sorry Dougas Adams, I couldn't resist)

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

“Fish loves rip off schemes”

I wouldn’t call InOutBurger a “rip off”, a good burger for regular price. Can reward them with FiveGuys if they want. Probably the same price though.

jallred | February 16, 2020

What is the payback breakeven point on our EV charger system. -fish

It’s ChargePoint’s charger system not yours. And your business isn’t in the charging business. You will never break even. ChargePoint will have a revenue stream, you won’t. And even if you did you would be making it out of the pockets of your employees. That isn’t an incentive.

Does your company make it back on 401k match, or family leave, or life insurance, or company phones. You never have been good at distinguishing cost vs profit center.

In your desperate attempt to secure a charger for your personal use, you oversold the idea to your intelligent people as a profit center. And they are too stupid to see it too.

You can’t really be this dumb.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

“It’s ChargePoint’s charger system not yours.”

Our quote has us buying them from Chargepoint for $7k. Charge point manages the billing for a small percentage fee. We set whatever rate we want to charge and pay electric bill. Offering free charging for a year as sign up bonus? If client asks we can send them to employee parking with a 2 hour free PIN.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | February 16, 2020

“ You can’t really be this dumb.” @jallred

Agreed, seeming so debilitatingly stupid takes effort.

WW_spb | February 16, 2020

Seabass is getting his set up ready for weak range MoME. That is why he sold idea of crappy rip off chargepoint to his Bosses.

jallred | February 16, 2020

You don’t listen. In fact, instead of listening you make up even dumber stuff to solidify your previous dumb stuff.

You seriously plan to break even on 7k chargers, plus electricity, plus fees, plus free client charging, plus free sign on bonus charging on the backs of your employees.

They will be begging you to stop giving them incentives because they can’t afford it.

Maybe at the job interview you can show them a charger and ask them if they like it. I mean they should because they will be paying for it. Employees without an EV will be complaining that they can’t pay for a charger too.

jallred | February 16, 2020

Shouldn’t the alarm bell go off when you get the idea to make a perk free for a year?

Employee will be like, “can I cancel after my free year?”

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

“charging on the backs of your employees”

Well that is wildly dramatic. And you have things a bit upside down. Owners want to do the EV environmentally responsible thing AND attract employees who also think driving an EV is the environmentally responsible thing to do

jallred | February 16, 2020

Dramatically stupid. It is your business plan though.

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

@jallred

Ever consider that nothing he says is true? He has a solar array at home he cant charge off of, let alone cant charge at home. Cant install a home charger because he lives on federal land. Cant charge here, cant do this, cant do that, with an unlimited supply of bullshit reasons for the bullshit reasons.

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

Its more likely that this person does not do anything but type on his computer making stuff up getting compensation by the thread he derails.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | February 16, 2020

“...nothing he says is true?”

Nah, he accidentally stumbles into accuracy once in a while.

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

wonder what its like to get paid to just make stuff up all day

billstanton | February 17, 2020

Tesla2018: No one seemed to follow up on your thought and then this thread became another cat fight. And I haven't heard of it before.

To resurrect your idea "Only solution I can see is to have chargers be like parking meters." I like this a lot. Cities make the enforcement the same as metered parking. Probably not enforceable on private property, but perhaps with permission of the owner. Cities add power to metered spaces, use it as a revenue source both ways, for power and enforcement. Seems like this could be workable.

Talk amongst yourselves...

FISHEV | February 17, 2020

"Probably not enforceable on private property"

Easier actually as people have to abide by property owner rules not local city, state rules.

Typically one gets a parking pass which includes employee number, car license, phone number etc. Easy to ID the cars. If there's security that checks the passes, they can call owners supervisor to get the car moved if over time. The ChargePoints we are looking at send txt messages similar to EA and Tesla. Send alert to move car.

We are small company so everybody knows everybody, not a big deal to offer to move it for someone who is in a case. EV'ers at the company are own subspecies so we have our agenda to make it work.

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