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Having "the talk" this evening...

Having "the talk" this evening...

Alright everyone, enough is a enough...

I have convinced my wife to sit down and review with me the feasibility of skipping the wait and jumping on the Model S 60 now.

Fingers crossed!

If it goes well, some of you move up a spot as I was early in line :)

The numbers aren't horrible and I plan on having the car for a long time.

dsvick | October 3, 2016

From a purely selfish, "I hope to move up in line" stand point ... Good Luck!! :)

leskchan | October 3, 2016

Here are some talking points, depend on your age.

"I am going through my mid-life crisis right now and I need your input. Would you like me to get a Model S or a girl friend?"

KP in NPT | October 3, 2016

Lol - good luck! In our case, I raised the idea of our model S to my husband - he scoffed at first. But here I sit, supercharging. :-P

burdogg | October 3, 2016

Funny - It took me a month or so of having multiple "the talks" with my wife before I was able to get my 70D. Was able to convince her with all the tax deductions we really needed ($7500 for fed, and $6,000 for CO). Try to sell her on the tax breaks if that applies - as who knows, the $7500 may not be around by the time the 3 comes out for you :).
I also took my wife on a test drive to help convince. She is a pretty simple girl (I love her for it) so she wasn't drooling over it although she loves some of the features and it was a nice car to her.
I am currently having "the talk" now for a Model X, as we can't fit all 4 kids in the S for a long distance trip. :)
Also mention the $1,000 savings if you order before Oct 15 with a referral code - I can give you mine if you are in need of one :)
Good luck with the talk.

leskchan | October 3, 2016

@mp1156

Could you share your 'wife" perspective of what you would like to hear for talking points?

burdogg | October 3, 2016

@mp1156 - Usually it is the other way around :) Glad you got him to come around - have you had to fight him off on wanting to take it all the time?

KP in NPT | October 3, 2016

I agree with burdogg about the tax credit - see if your state offers anything, too. Calculate your gas savings, too. In our case we save a significant amount since we have long commutes. The environment is important to us so that helped. And yes - take her on a test drive! My husband went without me on the DL and he was sold. That and the introduction of the 70d, which worked for us in terms of range and price, sealed the deal.

KP in NPT | October 3, 2016

Reduced maintenance too! And no more pimping stinky gas!

KP in NPT | October 3, 2016

Pumping. Lol

burdogg | October 3, 2016

Another thing that might help is to have a budget showing how you can feasibly do it. It will show that you have put a lot of time and thought into this, not just on a whim and what you want. If you can show her how it fits into your budget and life will still be fine, it helps break down the cost argument. You can see what a loan would cost per month right on the tesla when you configure the car.

SoFlaModel3 | October 3, 2016

Thanks for the replies (and funny ones) everyone!

So I definitely have undiagnosed obsessive compulsive disorder. There is already a spreadsheet showing current car plus gas factored against MS60 plus electricity on a monthly basis. I also show the $7,500 federal tax credit (no state credit in Florida) divided by the months in the loan even though I will get it with my taxes it helps to show it reducing the monthly payment.

The additional cost over my current car isn't even a stretch at that point. It's a nominal amount of money.

I also factored in getting back my $1,000 Model 3 deposit, but forgot the referral program was still running (thanks)!

I didn't get down to the "no oil change" level as I can't help but think Tesla service is a bit more expensive so that's a wash.

I feel as though my wife is ok talking about this because she wants me to stop talking about Tesla so much and figures buying it versus waiting about 15 or so months may help.

We should know soon!

makobill | October 3, 2016

Good luck! (I'm behind you in line...)

All kidding aside, its crossed my mind multiple times, but gets met hard with 'be patient'....

SoFlaModel3 | October 3, 2016

Thanks for the replies (and funny ones) everyone!

So I definitely have undiagnosed obsessive compulsive disorder. There is already a spreadsheet showing current car plus gas factored against MS60 plus electricity on a monthly basis. I also show the $7,500 federal tax credit (no state credit in Florida) divided by the months in the loan even though I will get it with my taxes it helps to show it reducing the monthly payment.

The additional cost over my current car isn't even a stretch at that point. It's a nominal amount of money.

I also factored in getting back my $1,000 Model 3 deposit, but forgot the referral program was still running (thanks)!

I didn't get down to the "no oil change" level as I can't help but think Tesla service is a bit more expensive so that's a wash.

I feel as though my wife is ok talking about this because she wants me to stop talking about Tesla so much and figures buying it versus waiting about 15 or so months may help.

We should know soon!

KP in NPT | October 3, 2016

@burdogg - we both travel for work - I drive from RI to JFK and he usually flies to philly. The only time I don't get it is when he decides to drive instead of fly. It's happened maybe 3 times in the past 15 months. And believe me - having to drive my ICE is PAINFUL. ;-)

burdogg | October 3, 2016

@michaelrbodner - Sounds like you should be prepared for the financial part of the talk :) (I am not sure the talking about Tesla ever goes away, I am sure my wife gets tired of hearing about it all the time still :)
If "the talk" doesn't work tonight, just keep positive talks about it with her - just keep mentioning why you would like it (upbeat). It is what won my wife over.
Here is my code if you do decide to move forward before the 15th of October. http://ts.la/chad4716 (You can find others as well, just as long as you use one so you can save the additional 1,000).

@mp1156 - I know, I had 3 cars for 2 drivers - one was our Nissan Altima that we bought brand new in 2006 and only had 43,000 miles on it. We wanted to try to keep it in good condition for our kids when they got driving age (still 2 years away), but it became so painful for me to switch between the two that I gave up. We sold it to my parents and put in our reservation for the 3. :)

burdogg | October 3, 2016

@michaelrbodner - I forgot to mention, use the extra $1,000 in your talk as so "if there is even a chance of us doing this (changing from the 3 to the S) right now is when we should do it. If we wait, we may end up paying $1,000 more for it as the referral ends Oct 15. (Tesla may extend it or come out with another one later, you never know but you do know that they are saying this one ends Oct 15).
I used that on my wife as I bought mine last October when they had the first referral discount going.
Just another tip that helped me out :)

burdogg | October 3, 2016

@mp1156 - I forgot to mention that every time we take a trip to see family, I have to drive my Expedition (we have 4 kids) and I complain every time that I don't get to take my Tesla. Hence, I keep trying to have "the talk" with my wife on getting the X :)

KP in NPT | October 3, 2016

@burdogg - sounds like a no-brainer. ;-)

burdogg | October 3, 2016

@mp1156 - maybe you should take my wife out some time and help her see the light :)

SoFlaModel3 | October 3, 2016

So I have her in agreement.

That is until we checked trade in value on my current which just slipped a bit and now I'm about $3k upside down. As of just about a month ago I was just under $1k upside down so I figured I'd be close. Not sure what happened there.

Now we're negotiating, but she's still on board...

georgehawley.fl.us | October 3, 2016

Sales tax is deductible on your federal tax return and, maybe your state tax return. If the tax is in the neighborhood of $4,000, this might get back at least $1,000, possibly more.

burdogg | October 3, 2016

Congrats, or kind of :) Negotiations are good :) So that $1,000 referral you forgot can help with that extra upsidedown part (yuck though, interesting how that happens).
What features are you looking at on the S?

I don't have the air suspension - I test drove the air and I can't tell the difference between mine and the one I test drove. When I did the test drive, I asked the person about it and his advice was, if you have never had air before and you don't have a steep driveway, you probably don't need it. (I drove a Nissan Altima, so no air, and huge upgrade on type of drive).

I didn't get the premium upgrades package (it was different when I got mine) - I am not all about high end and was looking to cut costs - I don't feel like I miss out - the rear hatch lifting with my hand is really just as easy as the automatic (push button, lift up and it will open the rest on its own). Some feel this is a must though, but if trying to shave off costs, could look here if you don't care so much for the interior upgrade.

I did get the Tan Next Generation leather seats - they feel nice, but I don't know what the multipattern seats are like - haven't seen them at all (I don't live near Tesla center - closest one is 190 miles away).

I also got the D as I have snow. Love it, (If you never drive in snow, then you can save and not get the D. Even if rarely drive in snow, I hear it does great with just RWD, but if in Snow a fair amount, I would feel better with the D)

Subzero Weather package - unless you are in severe cold areas, you really don't need. I live in Colorado, and yes it gets cold, but the front heated seats standard was all I need.

Ultra High Fidelity Sound - I do not have this and am not a true Audiophile so I probably wouldn't notice the difference between standard and this. Some swear you have to have it - to each is their own. I like to listen to music and it does not bother me to have standard. If in your home and other cars, it has always been standard, then you will be fine without. (If you really have to have XM radio (and thus pay even more as have to pay for subscription) then you have to have this added to be able to get XM with the car)

Rear facing seats - do you have more than 3 kids?

High Amperage charger - Are you planning on using Destination chargers (not superchargers). If not then this is not needed. If occasional - will it be overnight (if so, again not needed). This is only if you are away from supercharges and need fast charging to get to your next destination. For a rarer time, it just is not worth it (my opinion)

Autopilot - I have it and love it. This is a great feature and worth the money, especially if you drive in heavy interstate traffic. If so, your commute will be 90% more stress free. I don't live in a big city but I still love using my autopilot. I have driven on small two lane highways for 90 miles with the car doing all the work, I just rest hand on steering wheel, relax and enjoy the ride as I can talk with my wife etc... on these trips. This is why I really want the X for our long distance family trips - to reduce the driver strain.

Color - Is a color worth the extra $1,000 to you? I went with just plain black because I really had a hard time paying 1,000 more for a color. If I was to get an X though now, i think I would get the blue and pay $1,000 more.

Pano roof - This gives you more headroom - I like it. I am not one to drive often with it open, but when I do it is nice. The biggest plus for this though is the headroom - I am 6 foot and have no problem (have not sat in one without the pano roof though). But in the back, if you didn't have the pano roof and were 6 foot, it is tight.

Wheels - I went with the basic wheels - they look really nice and I don't need anything fancier, let alone pay for it - my opinion only though :) (The 21" wheels wear out faster so I hear)

I think that covers it - note that most things are everyone's opinions though and just trying to share mine. I did find though the air suspension from the salesman interesting. Some would swear by it. Yet the salesman to me was all about you really don't need it unless you have always had it on your other vehicles you drive. Hope that helps some and if you have other questions on options or what ones to cut to help with price, don't hesitate to ask.

KP in NPT | October 3, 2016

I agree - D (only if you live in a snowy area) and AP is all you really need. Maybe premium if you want those things. I do like the power liftgate. (It's heavy) pano is nice (we have it) but if you don't need the headroom, then skip it. That keeps the cost way down. If you must have premium sound then do aftermarket down the road.

burdogg | October 3, 2016

@mp1156 - doesn't the liftgate though open mostly on its own once you push it up slightly?

burdogg | October 3, 2016

I guess you do have to pull it down too :)

leskchan | October 3, 2016

@georgehawley

Tax deduction is never a good reason to do something. You pay $4,000 in sales tax and get $1,000 back, you are still out $3,000.

SoFlaModel3 | October 3, 2016

In going over the options, I came to the following conclusions:

1) My favorite color on the car happens to be white (fortunate that's "free")

2) Autopilot, I rate it as "nice to have". The only reason I say that is because I can add it any time down the road for just $500 more than at the time of purchase.

3) I see nothing but rave reviews on the basic seats.

4) I'm in Florida so no "D" and no cold weather package necessary.

5) I would want air cooled seats, but can live without that since you can turn on the A/C before getting in the car. I generally park in the shade at work and garage at home so it's never terrible.

6) The pano roof is the only option I'm considering and I'm on the fence. My current car has a pano roof and the shade is closed 99.9% of the time. In my mind that tells me I don't need it.

That means the car is literally $66k, less $1.000 referal, plus $1,200 fees, plus tax.

How are you able to deduct car taxes on your federal taxes? No state taxes in Florida.

It seems my one hang up now is being more upside than I'd like on my current car.

burdogg | October 3, 2016

@lekchan - you are absolutely correct - unless you are already going to be buying the item regardless, and I think that is what he was trying to show. So in this case, the op was trying to find the $3,000 that he was not planning on being upside down on with his other car. So george was just stating that you can find $1,000 of that that you were not planning on from the tax deduction you get from the sales tax you will pay.
As a business owner, this is never more true - you don't just go buy stuff to get tax write offs - you end up paying way more for stuff you don't need, just to save penny's on the dollar. BUT if you are in need or it is an item you would really like to have, and just trying to decide when to get it, sometimes the tax incentives make it better to get now instead of later, or push you over to go ahead and buy it even though you don't have to have it but it would be nice to have or could help some with your business :)

burdogg | October 3, 2016
burdogg | October 3, 2016
burdogg | October 3, 2016

Here is the IRS sales tax calculator you can use to see if it helps as well :)
https://apps.irs.gov/app/stdc/?_ga=1.190101161.36953876.1475546562

burdogg | October 3, 2016

Sorry I missed no state taxes in Florida, so that actually makes it a savings because you have no state taxes to deduct and can therefore take the general sales tax deduction (it would be on your schedule A, you have to itemize your deductions)
I shared this before my links, but somehow it double posted my link post and didn't post the above.

JeffreyR | October 3, 2016

A CPO or inventory may work for you too. They really sold them hard at the end of Q3 so there may not be many to choose among. But, it does not hurt to ask.

Don't forget the Pano Roof helps w/ headroom too. So if you are tall like me, I recommend it.

SoFlaModel3 | October 4, 2016

@budogg - thanks for the links!

@JeffreyR - I have looked used and that doesn't seem to make much sense. In all cases the car feels overpriced because I lose out on the $7,500 tax credit that the original owner received it. Also, while I don't want autopilot day 1, I do want it eventually so the car must be capable of the upgrade and a lot of the used inventory seems to be missing that. I also really like the redesigned front end. For instance if I can buy the car for $58,500 ($66,000 - $7,500) and a 2014 with 25,000 miles is going for $53,000. The average car loses 31% of its new car value in 2 years. Let's say the cars I find used average to have a new stock price of $75,000 because it's hard to find a car with no options. Well 2 years later the car is worth $51,750. Conceptually that's ok, but I have a problem with that since the original owner really paid $67,500. Its almost like they're cheating depreciation. At the end of the day I'm ok with the purchase price right where it is and my current challenge is being upside on my current car and paying money to get rid of it (that hurts).

Ross1 | October 4, 2016

My wife was most impressed by all the space for her bag, not having a centre console.
Forget the electrics.
But I do have to not talk about it all the time, and go on the forum secretly.

KP in NPT | October 4, 2016

New cars have the center console, unfortunately. :( also regarding CPO, are you sure you will get the full 7500? Check your past returns for an idea.

SoFlaModel3 | October 4, 2016

My understanding of the tax credit is that as long as you have a tax liability of $7,500 then you get the full $7,500. It's tacky to talk about how much money you make, but suffice to say I would get the full $7,500 for sure unless I am seriously misunderstanding something.

To use round numbers, let's say my wife and I combine to make an even $150,000 and we have 2 children. Without taking into account any deductions, our tax liability would be $23,868. That was just a round number for the sake of example, but unless I'm seriously missing something I have to imagine anyone that can afford the Model S (that still works) must make enough to receive the full tax credit.

In fact to take that a step further, just plugging numbers into an income tax calculator that I found online. With a married filing jointly return and 2 kids, you only have to make $90,500 to have a tax burden of $7,542. That includes child tax credits, but no other deductions beyond standard. So to further make my point, a married couple with 2 kids that only makes $90,500 annually probably has no business buying a Model S (though that's not for me to say). That's a take home of $6,913/month after taxes. Not enough to own a Model S, another car, a home, care for 2 kids, and care for yourselves (at least in my opinion).

SoFlaModel3 | October 4, 2016

Now I'm throwing out all the stops...

I compared a Tesla Model S "today" versus a Tesla Model 3 in March 2018 vs. a Hyundai Genesis in March 2018. Using the current cost of gas and electricity, I then compared what my monthly costs would be aggregated over 7 years.

Tesla Model S = $823.10 (assumes $7,500 tax credit)
Tesla Model 3 = $683.09 (assumes $3,750 tax credit)
Hyundai Genesis = $915.33

I currently drive a Hyundai Sontata and I "like" the Genesis. Before I knew of the Model 3, I assumed my next car would be a Genesis.

This paints a very favorable picture for the Model S today. The longer I have it the cheaper it becomes as a factor of paying it off and electricity remaining a fraction of the cost of gas. I can't see keeping the car 7 years, but it's nice to know the batteries and drive are covered for 8 an unlimited miles.

I could factor reduced service costs and longer overall warranty and the fact that I drive high mileage probably helps that argument as well.

This is probably becoming more of a reality that I jump on the MS60 before the referral codes expires, but I need to get an estimate on my current car and see if it's as bad as KBB says.

SUN 2 DRV | October 4, 2016

To me one of the nicest benefits is the TIME savings from having a full charge every morning, thus never having to think about nor make time for a trip to the gas station. That's especially important when running late for a meeting.

And besides the cost savings of no oil changes, evermore important to me is the TIME savings.

Not sure of the financial benefits of Solar in Florida, but here in California it's hugely beneficial to have both solar and an EV.

JeffreyR | October 4, 2016

FYI - an inventory car would be slightly discounted but would be considered "new" for tax purposes. You would need to find one that fits, which may be the hard part.

Red Sage ca us | October 4, 2016

"Honey, I'm doing this. I just need two words from ya..."
"Oh? What are they?"
" 'Yes, Dear.' "

dd.micsol | October 5, 2016

If it were me-I'd wait for the HUD tech to hit. I won't buy my 3 if it doesn't have a HUD.

Mireille and Conan | October 5, 2016

Good luck w/MS discussion!

I recommend keeping the M3 deposit; you may decide to be an all-Tesla family :D

jman | October 5, 2016

I had the talk for about 2 years and finally on our 10th Anniversary she said "yes". Ensure that you state you recognize her concerns and know that it might be the most expensive car you have ever owned, I believe it is for many MS owners. Worst case scenario is that you sell it, many eager buyers out there. Best case you love the car more than you thought you could and she as well really likes it.
If she hasn't taken a test drive that is a must. Use present customer satisfaction numbers, ease of charging, no gas fumes, can heat/cool car for her before she gets in it on HOT and COLD days, good luck.

Enjoy the buying process, look to CPO instead of new if tight on budget. Many great choices out there !!!

dsvick | October 5, 2016

@jman - "Worst case scenario is that you sell it, many eager buyers out there. Best case you love the car more than you thought you could and she as well really likes it."

And the best worst, or the worst best case is that she loves it and he never gets to drive it ...

Ross1 | October 6, 2016

Talking about the weaker sex, huh?

SoFlaModel3 | October 6, 2016

Well we're on a slight pause here with Hurricane Matthew just off the coast.

Another hit came from my first insurance estimate (up from $467 for 6 months to $867 for 6 months) ouch. Still want it, still think it's a solid chance but the storm has to pass and then we'll figure things out.

burdogg | October 6, 2016

Hope all is well with the storm and that it does not cause too much damage down there.

KP in NPT | October 6, 2016

Shop around on the insurance. There have bee wide ranges posted here.

Good luck with Matthew! My mom is in FL, battened down.

NomoDinos | October 8, 2016

michael - yeah, I agree with mp1156. Would definitely look into other options. My insurance plan with USAA actually went down going from a 5-series BMW to the Model S. The rep said that the risk of bodily harm and death are so low with Teslas that it decreased the overall costs (even though it is more expensive to repair).

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