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Home charging needed for Model 3

Home charging needed for Model 3

Sorry if this was posted before. I want to install a home charger in preparation for my Model 3. Will Tesla be rolling out an authorized vendor/installer program? Or maybe they already have one for the Model X/S crowd we can tap into?

Thanks.

jordanrichard | February 23, 2017

You won't need a "home charger", you will just need a standard 120 or 240v outlet.

bmalloy0 | February 23, 2017

To add on to what jordannrichard said, Tesla does have a list of "approved" electricians available on the site

jordanrichard | February 23, 2017

and to add to what bmalloy0 said, Tesla does have a list of "recommended electricians" , however I would highly recommend you not use them. Many people have been quoted outrageous numbers to install a simple 14-50 outlet, because they know you must have money because you bought a Tesla. So, I would recommend that you tell who ever you get a quote from, that you are buying a cheap used Nissan Leaf.

luwong.8888 | February 23, 2017

If you go with a local electrician, and you are running a dedicated 240v, make sure they wire it up for a EV and then affix a sticker saying that this outlet is only for EV charging. A dryer or stove 240v is 4 wires, 2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground. For EVs, you only need 3 wires, 2 hot, 1 ground. I will also add a disconnect box just before the 240v outlet. Midwest makes one, but there are other companies, usually around $30 CAD. The Midwest is rated at/to 60amps.

luwong.8888 | February 23, 2017

+++ on the cheap used Nissan Leaf reason.

jordanrichard | February 23, 2017

I don't think you need to have a sticker on the outlet. Who is going to be putting a stove or dryer in their garage? Yes, there are people who have washer/dryers in their garage, but if they already have that set up in their garage, then you wouldn't adding another one to accidentally plugging into the new 14-50 outlet.

luwong.8888 | February 23, 2017

That sticker is part of the electrical code in Ontario. Upon final inspection, TSSA applies that sticker. The OP might have that in his/her local code.

jordanrichard | February 23, 2017

Ummm ok, but the OP didn't indicate where they live. If it is required by their local code, then any certified/licensed electrician will place any required stickers, in place.

JeffreyR | February 23, 2017

See "OWNERS MANUAL COMPANION / FAQ"
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/owners-manual-companion-faq

It has been posted to @TeslaTap's site for formatting reasons:
http://teslatap.com/articles/owners+manual+companion

Frank99 | February 23, 2017

Why in god's name would you pay to have a 14-50 outlet installed, and not run a neutral? No, it's not necessary for EV charging, and yes, you might save $10 on the $500 install, but what a short sighted approach. The Neutral can be smaller (8 ga for the neutral with 6 ga hot), and you'd be saving $0.50 / foot in order to have a non-standard 14-50 outlet good only for EV charging. If retired friends decide to drop by for a couple days in their RV and hook up to that crippled 14-50 outlet, ignoring the warning label (because everyone ignores the warning labels) bad things are likely to happen.

Rocky_H | February 23, 2017

@luwong, Quote: "If you go with a local electrician, and you are running a dedicated 240v, make sure they wire it up for a EV and then affix a sticker saying that this outlet is only for EV charging. A dryer or stove 240v is 4 wires, 2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground. For EVs, you only need 3 wires, 2 hot, 1 ground."

I'm not sure where you are, but that would be an illegal install in the United States, so an electrician could not do that. If you are installing a 14-50 outlet or 14-30 outlet, it has to be installed as that type. You can't just leave out the neutral because you intend to use it for something else. Electric code does not allow that.

luwong.8888 | February 23, 2017

guys...In my immediate family, we have 4 electric cars and 3 dedicated EV outlets installed. All ran that way, TSSA inspected it and placed the EV sticker on the outlet and saying that is the proper way to install for a Dedicated EV outlet. Where am I located, Toronto, Ontario. As I said in other posts, 2 neighbours have MS. Their install is the same, 1 ground, 2 hot, no neutral. EV sticker affixed by TSSA.

CyberGaut | February 23, 2017

Rocky_H the good news is that really nothing will go wrong, jsut some stuff will not work. The way to thing of the wiring is:
Red +120
Black -120
White Neutral / 0

To get 120 to run the clock / outlet in a stove they go Red to Neutral (120V)
to get 240 you run Red to Black.
if you were missing the white there would be the +120 and no return so no power at all.
probably the big charger in the RV would work just fine and the 120 internal stuff would act like it was unplugged.

But it might be fun to watch someone try to find the issue in their system until you informed them.

Regardless and begin in Ontario, I would still spend the extra cash and go with a standard outlet (just in case)

CyberGaut | February 23, 2017

My real question is do we really need a Tesla charger or is a 15-50 standard outlet going to be just fine with the smaller batteries in the Model 3.

I understand wanting 80 amp to charge a 100, but with a Model 3, I am expecting the base battery to be 45 KWH so well able to charge an empty battery overnight.

OK, I know that my 45 is on the low end of expectations but even if the base is a 55...
and the real question is range not KWH. I believe that the aerodynamics of the Model 3 will allow for this small of a base battery and I think the official range will be more like 250 mi and the 215 will be the "Real world" range.

Can't wait to find out...

luwong.8888 | February 23, 2017

Did some digging and found this out. This applies to Ontario residents. The Ontario gov't also has a home charger install incentive. Half of what you paid to purchase and install the products up to $1000. Once you have the work done by yourself or an electrician, you call up TSSA and they come over and inspect the install. Once they affix the dedicated EV sticker and you pay them their fee, you get a form to fill out and submit to the Gov't. Both installs work, but in Ontario only the 3 wire gets you up to $1000 back. I hope that sheds some light.!!

CyberGaut - I plan on just the NEMA 14-50, with dual throw 40s. Plan on buying the smallest battery M3. Maybe once a month I might have to charge from empty. Most of the time I will probably only need 2-3 hours to get back to full. Drag Co. of the Bolt is over 0.30. People have posted getting over 250 miles from a full charge. The Drag Co. of the Hyundai Ioniq is 0.24 with just a 28KWh battery, people have been achieving up to 150miles on a charge. M3 at 0.21, the base battery should easily surpass the 215 real range miles. Probably can push it to 250-260 hypermiling it.

Frank99 | February 23, 2017

luwong -
sounds like that's an acceptable install in Toronto. I still wonder about the wisdom of leaving out the neutral, when for a couple bucks more you get a fully-functional 14-50 outlet.

luwong.8888 | February 23, 2017

I think the gov't worded it to make sure the incentive they paid out was for a dedicated EV home charger. How many people would pay an electrician to put in a dryer outlet and then ask the gov't for the rebate?

Rocky_H | February 23, 2017

@CyberGaut, So much not right here.

Quote: "Rocky_H the good news is that really nothing will go wrong, jsut some stuff will not work."

Nope. I thought so too, until this past year, when someone showed me a link to this about how 120V appliances can be damaged/destroyed if they are plugged into a 120/240 type outlet system that is missing its neutral.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-Q0M32puGY
I didn't realize what would happen, but it is very bad.

Quote: "The way to thing of the wiring is:
Red +120
Black -120
White Neutral / 0"

No, that is not the wiring setup @luwong is talking about. What you are talking about is hot/hot/neutral, like the old 10-30 dryer outlets used to be, with no ground. This is having hot/hot/ground.

Quote: "To get 120 to run the clock / outlet in a stove they go Red to Neutral (120V)
to get 240 you run Red to Black."

Yes, obviously. That is how split phase works if they are all hooked up correctly.

Quote: "if you were missing the white there would be the +120 and no return so no power at all. probably the big charger in the RV would work just fine and the 120 internal stuff would act like it was unplugged."

Nope. That is wrong. It is what I thought before I learned about it, but that's not how it would work in an RV that is plugged into one of these things with an open neutral line. WATCH the Youtube video I posted above that shows what actually happens with this. There IS a return path. Because the neutrals of the outlets in the RV are tied together, you have this path:
+120 through the tied wiring of the neutrals and back out through the -120 side. There will be 240V across however many items are in series in the RV. Depending on how much resistance each has, they can have wildly different voltage levels across them, not 120V each.

Quote: "But it might be fun to watch someone try to find the issue in their system until you informed them."

I don't know how "fun" it might be, as they are having to replace appliances they plugged in, which have been destroyed and hopefully did not pop and start the RV on fire.

Quote: "My real question is do we really need a Tesla charger or is a 15-50 standard outlet going to be just fine with the smaller batteries in the Model 3.

I understand wanting 80 amp to charge a 100, but with a Model 3, I am expecting the base battery to be 45 KWH so well able to charge an empty battery overnight."

It won't matter what the size of the battery is. A wall connector or mobile charge cable has some amount of amps __available__, but the car determines what it requests from that connection. The wall connector does not FORCE energy into the car, where the car might be overwhelmed by it. It's like a buffet, and you have a plate. You get to go up and decide how much you take. The buffet does not dump food on you just because there is a lot available.

@luwong, Thank you for clearing that up, that it is a kind of unique electric code allowance in Ontario. I was not familiar with that before.

Haggy | February 23, 2017

The "two hots and a neutral with no separate ground" was used in the US for dryer outlets and was phased out by 1994. If you are going to have an outlet installed from scratch, an NEMA 14-50 would make the most sense.

However, if there's any chance you might get a second EV at any point in the future, I'd recommend putting in 100 amp breakers instead, and putting in a wall connector. It will cost $500 for the wall connector. Even if you don't upgrade the car's charger, you'd be able to add a second wall connector to the same circuit.

luwong.8888 | February 23, 2017

found an article with pictures ;-)
http://insideevs.com/home-installation-level-2-evse-electric-car/
after reading the article, i am thinking(guessing)?? that my local gov't decided to go to the lowest denomination and have L1, L2, N as the wiring for a home EVSE. That the dedicated EVSE will work on any electric vehicle in the future if and when the home owner sells, the new owners can plug in their EV??

Rocky_H | February 23, 2017

@luwong, The guy who wrote that didn't know much about it. Any wall charging unit, including the Bosch unit in that article is supposed to have L1, L2, and ground, not neutral. I see that he says "L1, L2, and N", but he is mistaken. It only uses 240V, so there is no purpose to having a neutral there for a J1772 charging station.

Rocky_H | February 23, 2017

He did end up getting the wiring correct, though, as the pictures show. He ended up using the green wire, which goes to the ground pin of the plug he was attaching to the J1772 unit, and he had the white neutral wire capped off as it should be.

Red Sage ca us | February 23, 2017

CyberGaut mused, "I am expecting the base battery to be 45 KWH so well able to charge an empty battery overnight."

Wow. That's really, very low. There were some that insisted for some time that Elon Musk 'said' Tesla Generation III vehicles would have a 48 kWh battery pack... But he never actually said that at all. They were actually quoting a presumed calculation made by someone who paraphrased what he actually said. Their calculation was simply 80% of 60 kWh, and Elon never said that at all.

"OK, I know that my 45 is on the low end of expectations but even if the base is a 55..."

Yeah, sure... There have been those who have stated that Tesla could magically make their new car cover 200+ miles with only a 40 kWh battery pack... But I tend to believe those are the proponents of a Tesla microcar shaped like a Volkswagen Rabbit, Golf, or Polo that has the performance profile of a 1953 Beetle. Or that they simply enjoy swilling copious amounts of clear alcohol while smoking crack. Because that notion seriously avoids taking notice of the reality of how existing compliance vehicles with 24 kWh or smaller battery packs don't manage even 100 miles of EPA rated range... Or of how Tesla doesn't build ugly, dinky, slow cars. Not to mention that the EPA's testing parameters seem to be biased against Tesla's vehicles in particular.

"and the real question is range not KWH."

Exactly. The question is how the [FLOCK] anyone expects the Model ≡ to achieve the promised range with a less-than-adequate storage capacity. Only drive on days with perfect weather? Always drive downhill? Never exceed 25 MPH on surface streets and only drive 45 MPH maximum on highways? Inflate tires to 60 psi and never use air conditioning, heating, radio, or headlights?

"I believe that the aerodynamics of the Model 3 will allow for this small of a base battery and I think the official range will be more like 250 mi and the 215 will be the 'Real world' range."

I do not believe it is possible to build a compelling car with a 45 kWh battery pack and still achieve the acceleration and range goals Tesla has set forth for the Model ≡, while being a formidable competitor to AUDI A4, BMW 3-Series, and Mercedes-Benz C-Class. Toyota Yaris, Kia Rio, and Ford Fiesta? Maybe.

Johnn_hardy | February 26, 2017

Frank99 - I am crtain you cannot install a smaller neutral wire on any circuit. You suggest 8 ga neutral with 6 ga hot.

You are permitted to install a smaller ground. Perhaps that is what you meant. It is dangerous to give folks incorrect information for something as important as electricity.

Frank99 | February 26, 2017

John -
I agree with you - my mistake. Neutral needs to be the same gauge as the hots.

There are specific exceptions in the code that allow for a smaller neutral, but they're very specific and don't apply to either a welder or EV charging or an RV hookup or any other likely use for a 14-50 outlet in a garage. As an example, see section 210.19(A)(3) of the NEC.

ccrulesn | March 1, 2017

Does anyone know for sure if the current Tesla High Speed Wall Connector will be compatible with the Model 3. Currently its says its only compatible with the Model S and X. I also wanted to wait a little closer to the reveal just to make sure I don't miss out on a possible lower price of the HSWC. I called Tesla Service and Sales from the store and website and no one can tell me if its compatible or not. I've scheduled an installation date the cost is $500.00 for the 14-50 wiring and $700.00 for the wiring for the HSWC, of course price doesn't include either connector.

KP in NPT | March 1, 2017

No one knows because Tesla hasn't said so.

But my opinion is yes, it will be compatible. Many Tesla owners with HPWCs already and will want to use them with their Model 3s, plus it's the same connector as the supercharger. So if it wasn't compatible it wouldn't make much sense.

Haggy | March 1, 2017

When you get your car, you will need to be able to charge at superchargers. It will therefore need the same connector. Places throughout the world have installed HPWCs for their guests. Those will have to work for the Model 3. Tesla can use outlets that meet known standards, and they already have adapters for those.

That being said, it's possible for Tesla to change something. It could be that the car will have some weird amperage that can be handled through its charger and would work better with a new wall connector. Possible means it could happen in theory but is very unlikely. If I have a wall connector, I should be able to plug it into any Tesla without having problems. It is possible that a change would allow charging with older equipment but could be faster with newer equipment. I wouldn't bet on it.

Unbeliever | March 1, 2017

Put in a 3-wire in conduit WITH A PULL STRING. Do your song and dance with the TSSA to get your check. When it's signed off, use the pull string to pull your 4th wire for neutral, and Presto, you have your check and a SAFE 14-50 outlet.

You may have to obscure the pull string to avoid awkward questions, but at least you'll have a safe outlet at the end of the process.

jefjes | March 1, 2017

@Frank99
I am glad to see you refer to the NEC. Since the NEC (National Electrical Code) is written and sanctioned by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) that is a global nonprofit organization, established in 1896, devoted to eliminating death, injury, property and economic loss due to fire, electrical and related hazards, it would be wise for anyone here that is considering doing their own wiring to comply with it. Thanks for the reference.