Forums

Yet another new battery tech (YANBT)...

Yet another new battery tech (YANBT)...

Enovix Corp claim their three-dimensional silicon Li-Ion cell architecture has capacity of 695 Wh/L as opposed to about 460 Wh/L for conventional cells, a 50% improvement.

They also claim their design solves thermal runaway.

spectrum ieee org/semiconductors/design/how-to-build-a-safer-more-energydense-lithiumion-battery

I hope they've sent Elon a working example.

UnshodBob | May 27, 2017
UnshodBob | May 27, 2017

They're based in Fremont, ca, same as tesla. I didn't read the whole thing but it sounded good. I don't know if it would scale up to 100 kWh but I don't see why not. Good luck to them. :)

TeslaTap.com | May 27, 2017

Yet another battery that doesn't appear to have any applicability to EVs. It's designed for small mobile devices like phones.

Here's my article on why most of these "breakthroughts" never make it: https://teslatap.com/articles/understanding-new-battery-breakthroughs/

RedShift | May 27, 2017

@unshod

I work out at Clubsport and see these guys off of Warren right there.

bj | May 27, 2017

@UnshodBob - thanks for the clickable link, I got mollomed when I tried.

@TeslaTap - They say "We believe that the approach we’re pioneering will bring about a similar transformation in the market for lithium-ion batteries. The change will first appear in wearables, next in IoT and phones, and ultimately in electric vehicles and grid storage, as volumes scale up and manufacturing costs come down, as it already has in the solar industry."

So BEV is on their radar, the implication is it's only a matter of scaling up the manufacturing of the product, there's no fundamental limitation in the concept that would prevent that application.

UnshodBob | May 27, 2017

@bj - you're welcome. I have never seen Mollom. Just lucky, I guess :)

georgehawley.fl.us | May 27, 2017

One thing about there blurb in the IEEE Spectrum, it is one of the more cogent discussions of the inner workings of Lithium-ion cells that I have come across. I highly recommend it for those who are interested in that topic.

Frank99 | May 27, 2017

george -
I agree; a very informative article both on conventional Lithium-Ion cells, as well as on the proposed cells.

Several of the proposed batteries that have come up recently intend to solve the thermal runaway problem with current Lithium-Ion cells. If they can do so, Tesla can greatly increase power density - cylindrical cells are great for cooling, but not so great for power density.

georgehawley.fl.us | May 28, 2017

I'm not sure that one can eliminate temperature control of automotive battery packs even if the thermal runaway issue is eliminated. Electrochemical reactions are temperature sensitive. Best to keep them in a temperature range that maximizes performance and life expectancy.

Speaking of that, I wonder if it would be advantageous to include the 12 volt battery inside the main battery pack housing in the form of a separate, small group of Li-ion cells?

RedShift | May 28, 2017

@george

I liked the article too. However, this battery will have scaling problems like any other battery. There are solid polymer electrolyte alternatives which are somewhat simpler. ("PBS program, Search for the better battery")

One thing seems to be clear : in a few years, we might see the emergence of a newer, safer, and lighter (owing to higher energy density) Lithium battery. Future is going to be VERY electric.

brando | May 31, 2017

Rumor that Model Y will not have any 12v battery. Elon mentioned in last earning call that 12v was all wrong. TMC

https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2017/05/31/who-killed-the-electric-car-...

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/no-can-bus-no-12v-for-model-y.90...

TeslaTap.com | May 31, 2017

@brando - I may be wrong, but I think Elon was indicating a higher voltage internal system, likely 48 volts. This means a very special 48v battery. Tesla is not alone in this, as there are significant weight and cost savings potentially from switching from 12 to 48 volt system in any car. 48v is about the limit before having to deal with shock hazards and regulatory certifications like UL and CE.

The chicken and the egg problem is getting all the various 48v modules, motors and electronics in enough volume to get the price to be similar to the very high-volume 12v items available today.

rxlawdude | May 31, 2017

Oh no, not another "standard." Original cars were 6V. Interestingly, 48V is used by "mild hybrids" that basically crank the oversized starter motor when accelerating from a stop.