Anyone else unimpressed with the 0-60 times, especially the long range model? I felt this would be closer to the mid 4 second range.
That would b with the performance/AWD version that has not yet been released, if then.
The version that is out now is not even close to the final word on Model 3 performance
Its 2WD, and the AWD should have more total power, and better performance than the 2WD, whether its the standard or long range pack. A P version of the AWD should be faster still.
Patience, grasshopper. More will be revealed 'soon' I betcha.
I just feel if I'm paying $9k more, there should be a bit more benefit. I'm sure they won't offer a performance/Ludacris option for the shorter range model which makes competing with speed cost a lot more than the competition. Basically any V6 model BMW is faster which is disappointing.
I wouldn't expect much out of AWD alone (without performance package). On the Model S 75 vs 75D it only takes 0.1 seconds off the 0-60 time (4.3 to 4.2 second).
You're falling into a logical trap of comparing a non-performance version of the Model 3 against performance versions of the BMW.
to have a true apples to apples comparison will require specs for the AWD/Performance version of the Model 3, which have not yet been released
I have to disagree with you eeb9, an AWD 340 with some options is about $50k which is 0-60 in 4.6 secs and pretty well equipped, seems like to get that out of the model 3 it will be the $9k plus another 5k for AWD, plus a couple premium options once they stop forcing you to take the whole package and standard other charges the nickel and dime you with. Only thing saving them is the tax credits but once those are gone, things will have to change.
You think? Yet people still fork over tons of money for performance S?
You act like 0-60 is the only thing that matters with this car. So what the BMW full options is cheaper then a full option 3. There is this thing in the way it drives and not paying for gasoline.
Anyway, never understood 0-60. Yeah sure it is great for when....Expensive show off to friends? The immediate torque is enough for me - my 70D S 5.2 0-60 is crazy enough for me and all my friends - they all can't believe it and the feel.
Anyway, maybe if you feel nickel and dimed, you should just stick with the BMW - I don't feel that way. Tesla is rolling things out the way they are to try to get the car out faster. If you really don't understand this, I would elaborate, but not sure you want to hear it so won't waste my breathe.
So you are basically saying that you set yourself up for a fall by coming up with a 0-60 time based on nothing and are now disappointed.......
Yes! Lol. Everyone gets so defensive over anything negative posted in here. I'm just stating my concerns, no need to read or comment on the post of you don't like it. I'm still buying one, I just wish they would have boosted the power more, as all it takes is a tweak in the computer.
Side note, I don't drive a BMW and won't buy one, not a fan of them, but because Tesla compares themselves to BMW I used them as the example.
Just takes a tweak in the computer? So it doesn't have anything to do with the max capacity of that big hunk of metal between the wheels?
I am impressed with the 0-60 times of both base and long-range models, especially considering this is not a Model S, and is considerably less expensive.
Expected times so far announced are just fine. Want more? Wait for the P.
..waiting for Red Sage to give us comparative acceleration figures for other cars.....
I did a detailed comparison to the 340 (non awd) as what seemed to be the closest bmw offering to the 3. The 340 did 0-60 0.2 seconds faster, but was almost $5k more expensive when comparably equipped. Even so, it has less tech, is smaller, has inferior handling and a MUCH higher cost to own. People are adding in all the options on the 3, but forgetting how bare bones a base bimmer is.
Go test drive a 75D And then report back.
The first production model 3 will be faster than our 70D and that puts people to the back of their seats. It's going to be a blast to drive.
"I just feel if I'm paying $9k more, there should be a bit more benefit."
You get 90 more miles of range.
My current car might get 10s 0-60. Maybe more than that. I dont care about acceleration. I barely use my current car's maximum, and if the Model 3 is under 6 seconds, i sure as hell wont be coming anywhere close to using all the acceleration for that car. Its about the utility for me.
I am completely with you regarding 0-60. don't listen to all these naysayers about 'its not important' and 'I'm not buying the car for speed' and '0-60 doesn't matter' blah blah blah. then don't comment on this post. I got news for you. ITS IMPORTANT! sure if you drive a prius now then maybe it will feel fast, but its not, you're just used to driving painfully slow cars.
the long range battery 0-60 is terrible for a tesla 75 KWH battery.....with no news on performance model 3 numbers. buuuuuut they just happen to make the entry level model S 75D 0-60 4.2s, down from 5.2s with NO change in price. That's a HUGE performance gain, just like that! marketing at its best. I think if you want performance (anything in the low 4s) you will have to buy a model S, and that makes me sad......
so drjries - you feel your model 3 at half cost should be comparable to a Model S 0-60 time?
I am sure the performance version of the Model 3 will have much better 0-60 stats. I think Tesla does not want the base model 3 to compete too much with the S. If the RWD non performance version of the Model 3 did 0-60 in 4.x seconds, it would make it too good compared to the Model S. I mean who would buy a Model S 75 when you can get a Model 3, half price with same acceleration and better range?
Side note - back when I bought my 70D model S - to upgrade to an 85 battery was $10,000 more - all you got was a little more range and 1 second faster 0-60 time. Then you could get a performance 85 and that cost an additional $10,000 and all you got for that was LESS mileage than an 85, but another second off 0-60. Last, you could add Ludicrous for another yep $10,000 and all you got with that was 0.4 seconds off your 0-60 time.
So those that wanted faster 0-60 had to fork over $30,000 more than my 70D and all they got for it was - a handful of miles more than me but 2.4 seconds faster 0-60 (nothing else with the options etc, changed, oh wait, your brakes were red and you got a fin at that end of the car). And yet you think the 3 should have faster 0-60?
You have to pony up for that - as others have said, these are the base models, no performance. Even then, don't think it will come cheap for those faster 0-60 times.
The 0-60 in the standard range is more than enough for me. My current vehicle does it in around double that time. I have never had any problems with the speed.
Disclaimer: *WHILE I AM NOT A CURRENT OWNER AND SHOULD NOT COMMENT ON THE TESLA EXPERIENCE*
I will say that I have drivin and experienced many different model S, as well as many other high performance vehicles. The instant acceleration you get from the electric motors is not comparable. The standard range version with 5.6 0-60 is going to feel much quicker from 0 than all vehicles with a similar 0-60.the responsiveness and linear acceleration is amazing.
Strictly speaking, 0-60 sprint times don't tell the whole story. I don't think many people would notice 4.9 (340i) vs 5.1 (model 3 - extended).
In fact, the manual transmission on the 340i is a touch slower than the automatic (due to computerized shifting), but the manual is MUCH more fun to drive.
I'd expect the performance AWD model 3 to run somewhere in the low 4's to sixty, but again, I doubt most drivers will even notice.
burdogg - didn't say anything about price. I think it is priced exactly where it should be. its just not fast. a prius is priced where it should be but im not gonna tell you it's 0-60 is amazing. that's all I was saying. I was secretly hoping it would be faster, thus making it more bang for the buck. but alas......you must pay to play....hence the model S
I think a lot of people were secretly hoping for at least less than 5.0s.
however ---> model 3 = amazing car
Sorry - I probably came off wrong as well :) Not trying to downplay it all - but I guess my point was what some have said - while we would like a faster 0-60, they can't get it too close to the Model S as that is one way to really differentiate the two cars and justify price. Maybe that is more what I was going for with the price difference in the Model S situation :)
I will say though for the base version - I was pleased with the 0-60 - as many thought from the initial reveal when he said under 6 seconds, he meant 5.9 or maybe 5.8, so to come in at 5.6 is to me, really great considering his first statement. Now for the bigger battery, sure I think many were hoping for a 4.8 or so time, maybe faster. Could it do it - that to me is an interesting thought - i do wonder if it truly can do faster, but they have limited it to keep it in the 5 range so that the S still looks nice for those truly wanting speed. Obviously there are people out there that really want extra fast 0-60 times, but Tesla may be trying to get you to pay for an S to get there (again, my example of getting up to Ludicrous initially on the S you had to really pony up some money :) Same strategy here???
1 - I love how some one so matter of factly pointed out that the $9K for upgraded battery gets you 90 extra miles!! its simplicity is what made it great. The bigger battery is not the "P" upgrade
2 - Someone saying if the 75K battery for the Model S then the Model 3 should do that too. Its the whole point of having different levels of cars!!! If the Model 3 did everything an S could, why would someone buy the S? Just for the bigger trunk? This is how business is done. It makes people make choices and get what you want for what you can pay. If you want speed and have 85K then get the S! If you want good speed but only have 40K, get the 3.
3 - I am not a tesla "fan boy" that doesn't listen to negative comments, but I just dont get this. how can you be disappointed when a year and a half ago they said Sub 6 Seconds. if you were going to get 4's they would have teased it with sub 5!!!
A 5.1 second Tesla will beat a 4.6 second ICE in a distance race to 60 mph. Time vs distance is the key here. Instant torque always wins when the numbers are that close. I've beat many ICE cars that have faster 0-60 times than my S85. I estimate the ICE car needs at least a 1 second (0-60) advantage and a great driver to stand a chance.
Look at distance races like 1/8 or 1/4 miles to see how 0-60 (timing races) don't tell the whole story.
I'm not buying an M3 so I can outrace another car at the stoplight in the middle of town.
In my opinion it comes down to what you want, you want the LR Model 3 to accelerate faster, you won't get the 300 miles range then. Is it worth it? Maybe or maybe not but I think that 5.1 sec for LR and 5.6 sec for base is not that bad.
To the op. It's not 0-60 but the pedal response and off line acceleration that made Tesla cars to stand out. Just go test drive one to see if you think it's not enough but I'm pretty sure it will be more than enough for most drivers. Not to mention the driving experience from the instant torque and smooth linear power delivery will be better than any BMW or Audi you've ever driven, yes even those so called performance models. As a former Porsche owner who has owned/driven many different Tesla cars I should know. Then again there is that adage you get what you pay for. There are/will be quicker and much quicker Tesla you can buy you just have to pay to play.
"Strictly speaking, 0-60 sprint times don't tell the whole story. I don't think many people would notice 4.9 (340i) vs 5.1 (model 3 - extended)."
People actually will notice it. The 5.1 second model 3 will kill the 4.9 second 340i for anything under 70~80 mph. It probably will get even with low 4s M3/M4 off line and may even beat it if you don't put a good driver in it.
I'm more concerned with ~30 mph-70 mph than I am with 0-60 times. 0-60 times can, as many of you have pointed out in one way or another, tell a lot of the story; however, in terms of speaking practically in an everyday (suburban) setting, an on-ramp to a highway situation is where power can be helpful, safe, and fun.
I've never driven a Tesla, but I've read a lot and I'm so excited for my Model 3 (late next year or early 2019). Can someone do me a favor and briefly comment on the power experience when stepping on the pedal from 30mph - 70mph (merging onto a highway, for example, as previously stated)? I understand instant torque will be in responses here.
"I'm not buying an M3 so I can outrace another car at the stoplight in the middle of town."
Thank you kindly.
The Model S and Model 3 can exist in the same premium luxury segment, one is a large sedan, the other a midsize. Not everyone wants a large sedan but would like the smaller more nimble Model 3. The use of upgrades can bring the Model 3 price point high enough to maintain margins. A Premium, AWD, Performance Model 3 could be $60-70k right? They need to offer the P version of the 3 with comperable acceleration to the S. Charge extra for the Max Plaid/Ludicrous but make the performance world class.
SmellyTuna - it is incredible the power you get when you step on the pedal all the way at say 30 mph. In fact, I think it is even a better feel than starting from 0-60. You get up to 70 mph really, really fast. There is no lag. I went to pass a uhaul and a car following it the other day in our X (0-60 in 4.8) I was doing about 60, speed limit 65. I was around them in no time, (2 lane highway) but when I looked down, I thought, wow, I better slow down fast! as I was doing a little over 100 mph.
The power is there and instant. It isn't until you get to the say 60 mph range and floor it that you don't notice the throw your head back feel, but the instant get up and go is still there. But I do feel the 40 mph is the sweet spot, where you really feel the most throw back :)
My 2 cents. S 70D owner (0-60 in 5.2) - I mostly drive this one. X 90D (4.8 0-60), wife mostly drives this. This is just so you know the 0-60 I am comparing to. THe 3 will be similar to my 70D :)
I test drove a P85D about 2 years ago. On the highway going 60mph, the car threw me back in my seat as if we had not even been moving. Acceleration at higher speeds is roughly the same. Theres a bit less acceleration since speed is squared for your momentum, but its not a massive difference. Its not like your gasoline car that has to drop 2 gears to get power. Its instant torque, and consider this;
Although 30-70 may be less acceleration overall than your 0-60, consider that (nearly) all the other cars on the road are gasoline cars. So no matter what you're going to have an acceleration advantage over all of them since you have instant torque. Whatever the acceleration is at your 30-70, its guaranteed to be better than the comparable 0-60s of any other ICE vehicle.
I too think lane merging and high way passing power is more important than stop light drag racing. I don't know how the 3 will be like but I'm sure you will not be disappointed. The instantaneous pick up will always be there regardless of the 30-70 time. BTW published 30-70 or 50-70 times for ICE cars can be deceiving. They are usually done at right gear and right power band (although few places do test top gear acceleration). No one cruises at 5000 rpm to be ready to pass at the moment's notice. You either need to take time to change gear or wait for the power to build up. That delay and hesitation kills any driving fun. With the Tesla just punch it that all all it takes.
Lol so many people answered SmellyTuna's question. I hope you can get a good night's sleep because you know that now. Or maybe not. ;)
Interesting thread. I enter a highway with a speed limit of 55 mph from a side street every day in a Prius with a 0-60 time of ~ 10.5 sec. There is a slight curve to that highway, making visibility less than ideal, and I often have to floor the accelerator to get to speed before cars on the highway overtake me. Any of the Model 3's will make this entry easier. As far as stop light acceleration, even the lowly Prius has a fairly quick 0-20 mph time and it allows safe merging. Personally, I'm looking forward to pulling alongside another Model 3 at a stop light in the coming months. I'm smile, rather than race. Save racing for a racing track or course, where it's safer.
"Any of the Model 3's will make this entry easier. "
Easier and safer too when you don't need to build up speed before entering the merge lane. Another thing I found much better is in my daily ritual of trying to merge from the slow traffic lane to the HOV lane where cars are coming from behind fast. I likely would have had many close calls, if not crashes, already if I have been driving an ICE car. Then of course I would not be able to use the HOV lane if I'm driving an ICE car. Another advantage of the Tesla.
Merging onto highways is a blast in our slow 70D. Huge difference from our ICE cars.
The whole point is that it is felt that 'instant' acceleration is synonymous with electric cars, at least Teslas.
That it really doesnt cost much to make them very quick vs quick.
Which is possibly correct, but it is a way of making some profit very quickly.
KP - here here :) I have found I have to hold myself back if there is a car in front of me as I first get on the ramp. Otherwise, I am on there tail hitting the brakes :) Sometimes, I have to wait for them to get almost clear on the freeway, as I just get on the ramp, so I can floor it and be right on their tail as I just enter the freeway.
It is the one place I can really floor it and not get in trouble :)
"Anyone else unimpressed with the 0-60 times, especially the long range model?"
Yes, lots of people, myself included, especially given that they just boosted all the model s and model x times, so that there is now a huge gulf between the 3 and model s. I'm just hoping that in 6-18 months, they'll put out a software update that boosts the time by 0.5-1.0 seconds.
The base model has kind of a shockingly low time. I've said this in another thread but practically every single performance oriented car around the $35k price point is faster to 60mph than the base model 3.
There are a couple of good threads on the TMC forum about this with comparisons to ICE cars for 0-20, 0-30, 30-60, 50-70 etc. times. But in summary, ICE cars with ~0.5 sec or better 0-60 times will pass the model 3 in distance as well before hitting 60. The "instant" acceleration can't overcome much more than that. Alot of people here will tell you that you need to test drive to feel the instant acceleration and how much better it is, and it does indeed feel jolting, but it doesn't make up for a much faster time to 60. People will also tell you here that its alot more difficult to achieve the advertised 0-60 times of ICE cars, which is true, but new Mustang GT's will blow the base model 3 out of the water, even with sub-par launches.
The upcoming P version will likely be another story though. There is no reason it shouldn't be close to P model S times, although it wont be able to touch the p100dl with its much smaller battery.
Unfortunately for those who value performance highly, Tesla has decided not to aggressively compete on the performance side, unless you're willing to pay way up for the P model or a model S. Don't get me wrong, 5.1 and 5.6 won't feel "slow", but its still disappointing nonetheless that they more tried to match/barely exceed entry level luxury car times rather than go after performance.
The fact is that Tesla can't afford to sell a faster car for anywhere near $35k-$40k averages without destroying its margins. Perhaps the roadster version 2 will have an affordable version that is more skewed towards performance than luxury. Just have to wait another 5 years.
As in all things motorsport, going faster costs more money.
Tesla didn't choose to focus on 0-60 times in the base Model 3 (much like it didn't on the base Model S). If that's important to you, they have made it clear that you will be able to pay them more money in the near future to improve performance.
And, by the way, would that be the Mustang GT that's rated for 15 mpg in the city?
I have smoked many mustangs and camaros in my wrx. once model 3 hit the streets and race till then we never know the truth.
Absolutely. Anyone can play but you just have to pay to play. BTW someone is dreaming that there will be a cheap Roadster II. It will be a $200K if not more although it will still be so cheap compares to those super/hyper cars that do not even have the same 0-60. Sorry that I used the 0-60 but that's the only number those ignorant people seem to be able to understand.