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Cost of not installing HUD interface

Cost of not installing HUD interface

I enjoy the Model 3 interior design. I sat in the Model 3.

I still believe the HUD could add great value.

How much would it be for Tesla to produce car witn the interface or complete HUD folks? Please charge 100% mark up if that is the problem, but please give what many customers want.

Am I alone on this?

andy.connor.e | October 2, 2017

There are those in here saying that a HUD can increase safety. And i say again and again after again..... You dont know if something is necessary, until you have truly experienced and physically proven the necessity. None of you have sat in a Model 3, and none of you have experienced the "HUDless" Model 3. Model 3 is not the same as whatever car you've driven that didnt have a HUD.

And what kind of statistics are you referring to when you claim that a HUD will increase safety in the Model 3?

ReD eXiLe ms us | October 2, 2017

Whenever I played the various HALO games, I have always been put off by the viewpoint controls. You could adjust the 'look sensitivity' for left/right viewing. But not up/down. I always wondered why the default wasn't to allow for the speed change to affect both. I was perplexed that the game designers expected people to prefer an incredibly slow up/down viewing rate. This thread has let me know that apparently it is common for people to move their point of view that way. I don't. But then, I don't get motion sickness either.

eeb9 | October 2, 2017

@andy - my point on safety is that anything that decreases distraction is an improvement in safety.

having a touch-screen interface for essentially everything is going to, of necessity, increase the amount of time drivers spend looking at the screen as opposed to looking at the road, their mirrors, their blind spots and other suchlike things.

If looking at the touchscreen on your phone to read a text or dial a phone call is sufficiently "distracting" to be ticket-worthy in most areas, how is the Model 3 display any less so?

Granted, none of us have yet had a chance to drive one - no argument there. And I'm going to buy a Model 3 with or without, and go aftermarket as soon as there's a good option that works well with Model 3 systems.

I even sort of understand that Tesla *expects* FSD and EAP to obviate any requirement for enhanced driver-facing display technology.

I just happen to *REALLY* disagree, not least because I have no plans to purchase either EAP or FSD, but would pay extra $$$ for a HUD in a fast heartbeat.

TeslaTap.com | October 2, 2017

@eeb9 - I find the touchscreen (Model S) less distracting than any of my prior cars. Having a much larger display makes details easier to see without having to scroll in and out. Then there is so much more information displayed, I rarely need to go into sub menus. Functions are mostly labeled in clear english (or other languages as appropriate). As just one example, to navigate home, I just slide the navigate button down and that it. No menus, no fuss, no extra button pushes.

On other cars, there is so little display space, it's necessary to go into deeply nested menus to get what you want - very distracting. Now for modern cars without a display, then you're faced with 50-100 buttons, mostly labeled with cryptic icons. It is a distraction to hunt through all those buttons to find the one you want, while driving. Another major distraction.

For those that have never driven a Tesla, you'll be surprised at how easy the Tesla system is in comparison to other cars you're used to. Most of the competitor's cars with displays are so problematic to use, they require you to agree to a screen of legalize every time you start the car. I suspect most users just ignore 90% of the features they offer as it's just too distracting to get to them.

carlk | October 2, 2017

Same experience as TT's in my S and X. I actually think the one in model 3 could be even better. I have to extend my arm to reach the screen in current cars. Sometimes it's a little hard to keep fingers stable in the moving car. In the 3 I probably can reach the screen while the elbow is rested on the armrest or hand rested on the steering wheel. I think people will like it after they tried it.

andy.connor.e | October 3, 2017

There are 3rd party systems you can buy. The Garmin GPS i have works basically like a HUD. It will at least display your speed in an area that is not the center console touchscreen.

But if you're going to compare this in a sense of looking at your phone vs looking at the display screen, one could argue looking at your instrument meter is no different. You're taking your eyes off the road no matter what. So why this is any different from any other car with an instrument panel you have to take your eyes off the road to look at i dont understand. Maybe people are very intimidated by something that is different. Idk. But this seems to be a trending concern, with a rational for the concern essentially based upon manufactured concern, as no one has actually driven the car yet to determine how dreadful it may or may not be.

If you think it will be that bad, there are 3rd party "HUDs" you can install above the steering wheel, or suction cup'd to the windshield.

topher | October 3, 2017

"There are 3rd party systems you can buy."

None of them display the information I want. I couldn't care less about speed. It is never an issue where and how I drive.

Thank you kindly.

eeb9 | October 3, 2017

@Topher +1000

andy.connor.e | October 3, 2017

I dont recommend a Model 3 then. Perhaps a used S? Or Bolt? I hear the new Leaf is nice.

eeb9 | October 4, 2017

@andy

Thoughtful response - thank you.

(warning - stream-of-consciousness rant ahead)

The Model 3 is not the car I want. It is, however, the *best available compromise*. In my perfect world, Tesla would have taken a very different approach with the Model 3. Unfortunately for me, they took an approach that is oriented in other directions... FSD, low manufacturing cost (meaning enforced simplicity of design that doesn't leave much room for customization) and built-in support of a ride-sharing future are huge design drivers for them and I just have to live with that, since there's noting else on the horizon that's close.

I could have *EXACTLY* the ICE car I want for about $40k. Thing is, it's not a BEV or even a Hybrid... And there's no *other* BEV that comes closer to what I'd like than the Model 3. The S is simply too big - I want *SMALL*. Even the Model 3 is considerably larger than what I'd hoped for. And the Model Y? Yet another SUV that potentially even larger than the Model 3...

Finally, neither the Bolt nor the Leaf are even close, performance-wise.

So any way I slice it, I have to make a trade-off. If I want BEV, I have to accept that the Model 3 is the least-compromised option for me. The alternative is an ICE that I'd *LOVE* but that doesn't help to move the needle towards alternative and sustainable drive technology.

So I'm sort of [screwed] either way - I have to select the best of two heavily-compromised options. I love what Tesla is doing, but I *really* wish they'd built a different car than the one they did.

Despite all of this - the Model 3 is truly an *amazing* car, for the car that it is. It tracks perfectly with the stated intentions of EM and his team. It will make millions of people *very* happy.

It's just not what I was hoping for. And I'm (mostly) good with that. Some of their design choices leave me utterly mystified. Truly. I just can't wrap my mind around some of the things they've done (or not done), but then I also understand why they expect me to "Not Care".

They expect me to *want* EAP, FSD and the Tesla Network, and they built the car accordingly. Unfortunately, I'm not interested in any of that. I wanted a "Better MINI" that I can happily toss around a motocross course or mountain road and that also had the room to pack all the cr@p I normally haul along on long road-trips.

They gave me *most* of the performance I was looking for, but in a car that's a foot wider and almost three feet longer than what I want or need. They left out some things that I would have considered hard deal-breakers for anyone but Tesla - and even there it's been a struggle.

And I know - I'm a voice in the wilderness, representing what is ultimately a tiny blip in the demographic spread that EM and Tesla are aiming for.

But that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

Though... I am at least mostly happy. I just have to grit my teeth and wait for someone to get 'round to building what I really want, and buy it then.

In the meantime, I plan to truly enjoy my Model 3 - I'll stretch its legs and test its footing and its willingness to go all the places I want to take it. I'll agitate (loudly) for the features that I'd like for the Tesla Design Team to add in future iterations, but won't let their absence keep me from enjoying the car as it is in the interim.

ReD eXiLe ms us | October 4, 2017

eeb9: Yes. Yours is an itsy bitsy teensy weensy teeny tiny voice far off on the outskirts of automotive market focus. But BMW heard you anyway. They claim thatheir latest concept for a fully electric MINI will indeed become a production car for 2019. Hopefully that is precisely the car that you and my Pal, Sonik are looking for. I'll be perfectly happy to get a Model 3 Coupe.

eeb9 | October 4, 2017

@ReD - I suspect that the MINi BEV may actually arrive before your Model 3 Coupe... that is of course assuming that eitheris actually ever built.

But i’d be happy with whichever of the two shows up first, within caveats like range and performance

carlk | October 4, 2017

eeb9 Yes but your perfect car may not be my perfect car. Nothing in this world can be perfect. It is impossible.

CC396 | October 4, 2017

Haven't tried the Model 3, but still feel a HUD would be beneficial. If I remember correctly, even the Honda 2018 Accord (cost less) includes a HUD, how much would it have cost? Even if the programming is not ready, they could at least include the hardware and activate it once the OTA software arrives.

mos6507 | October 5, 2017

"why would anyone be opposed to the HUD as an option? "

Because Tesla won't offer one and fanboism dictates that all Tesla decisions must be correct.

mos6507 | October 5, 2017

"why would anyone be opposed to the HUD as an option? "

Because Tesla won't offer one and fanboism dictates that all Tesla decisions must be correct.

Iwantmy3 | October 5, 2017

Wow! All these months later and the same conversation about the HUD continues.
I've got to say, this looks like too much fun not to weigh in.

"why would anyone be opposed to the HUD as an option? "
There is no valid reason to be against having a HUD as an option. Even if it is not there yet, there is no reason to be against the idea of a HUD option in the future. If people want a HUD and are willing to pay for it, they why would anyone be against that?

From what I have seen and heard, the "3" sounds like an amazing car to drive. Many people believe that HUDs look and feel like they improve the driving experience. I say, give them the option.

The idea that HUDs don't go with self driving is irrelevant. For those of us who have little interest in EAP, no interest in FSD, and who find the idea of Tesla Network (driving strangers around in their $50-60K cars) downright repulsive, give us the option to outfit this car as a true drivers car..

Its just a HUD.

carlk | October 5, 2017

@mos6507 You are actually right. Non-fanbois will find the decision correct too but only after they figured out why later. Some may never be able to though.

@CC396 You can certainly add this and that to make everyone happy but pretty soon it will be just like a Mercedes.

andy.connor.e | October 5, 2017

The only reason i can say they will not add a HUD, is because that will increase production costs. Doesnt matter how many people want it, because people will want anything and everything. But for Tesla to provide that as an option, the total production cost will increase by having more production line options available. I'd try out your Model 3 and see how much you need it. You might find that you're fine not having it. In fact, you might find how amazing the car feels not having so much nonsense directly in front of you. Less distracting.

markr7 | October 5, 2017

Tesla Inc. has decided that they will never provide a HUD in any of their cars.
If a HUD is that important to you, then look elsewhere.
I wish this topic would just lie down & die!

Iwantmy3 | October 5, 2017

"Tesla Inc. has decided that they will never provide a HUD in any of their cars."

Do you have a source for that or is it just FUD.

hoffmannjames | October 5, 2017

I guess it depends on how the HUD works but I am worried that HUDs might actually be distracting. I've seen videos of the Navdy HUD and it seems super distracting to me to have that much information from navigation to music to calls or texts popping up right in front of your eyes. Plus, it seems like you have to change your focus from far to near to focus on what is on the HUD so even though you are still looking straight ahead, you might not be focused on the car in front of you because of a text message flickering in your line of sight. That just seems bad to me. At least with the Model 3 screen, the distractions are out of my direct line of sight so I can choose to ignore them and keep my eyes on the road. I don't have that option with a HUD because it puts the distractions right in front of me.

markr7 | October 5, 2017

@lwantmy3
Elon has tweeted in the past that a HUD is not needed in self-driving cars. This is the direction Tesla is going. Why put a HUD in a car that doesn't require a driver?

carlk | October 5, 2017

hoffmannjames, mark7 Both are valid points. Elon has said you will find the display makes sense too. People who really think it's important could always go buy a car with one. The rest of us (yes fanbois) only want a car that makes sense.

Yodrak. | October 5, 2017

CV63 wrote:
"Seriously, why would anyone be opposed to the HUD as an option?"

A legitimate question. I'm not opposed to a HUD as a stand-alone option, like the EAP. I probably wouldn't opt for it, but to each his own.

eeb9 | October 5, 2017

@hoffmanjames - modern HUDs have collimated projection systems that display the image at infinite focus. The images appear to simply float in space in front of the driver - no refocus needed. Depending on the placement of the screen, the images can appear to be close (low in the vision field) or distant (high in the field).

@markr7 - the topic won't die because we (those of us to whom this matters) want Tesla to know that we still want to see HUDs as a feature in future cars. You can freely ignore any and all HUD-related posts if you have no interest in the topic.

carlk | October 5, 2017

C'mon Tesla KNOWS HUD. It just decided not to put it in the car now and likely forever. This display thing has been explained to you well by Elon too-- YOU WON' CARE. No matter how hard you want to beat it it's still a dead horse.

eeb9 | October 5, 2017

@carlk

I won’t care so long as I buy into an FSD-oriented (or even an EAP-centric) future

True enough! Not a single argument in those cases. A HUD would be redundant in either case.

But I don’t buy into either of those - *especially* at the prices they are quoting.

So I care. And i’ll keep asking for as long as Tesla keeps announcing new Models and updates to existing Models. Or until I buy something else, whichever comes first.

*you* are under no obligation to care, however. EM said you you wouldn’t, after all.

Carl Thompson | October 5, 2017

Obviously EM was wrong about the "you won't care" part.

eeb9 | October 5, 2017

@Carl... post of the day award!

:-D

Iwantmy3 | October 5, 2017

markr7
"Elon has tweeted in the past that a HUD is not needed in self-driving cars. This is the direction Tesla is going. Why put a HUD in a car that doesn't require a driver?"

Please see my earlier post;
"The idea that HUDs don't go with self driving is irrelevant. For those of us who have little interest in EAP, no interest in FSD, and who find the idea of Tesla Network (driving strangers around in their $50-60K cars) downright repulsive, give us the option to outfit this car as a true drivers car.."

Designing an interface based entirely on self driving is an insult to those who want to drive themselves.

I want to drive a sports car, not sit in a cab!

carlk | October 5, 2017

That's a generic you of course. The world has no lack of oddballs.

Carl Thompson | October 5, 2017

The messages are a bit contradictory. Design an car that is fun to drive. Then give it a user interface that makes it less fun to drive on the assumption that soon you won't want to drive anyway.

RedShift | October 5, 2017

Anyone driving the car by themselves is an oddball? GTFOH :-)

carlk | October 5, 2017

He meant you'll do fine with the existing display. People who are adamant of needing that number floating right in front of their eyes all the time while they drive a car are pretty oddball in my book.

markr7 | October 5, 2017

@IWANTMY3
The Model 3 is being developed as a Self Driving Car, not a drivers car; It doesn't fall within Elon's grand plan...
Just what data are you hoping to project on your windshield?
Oil Pressure...
Tach...
Speed... (That's 3 inches to your right)
If you REALLY need a HUD, buy another car

eeb9 | October 5, 2017

@carlk and mark37 - what I want is for the HUD to replace the central display for all the normal functions of driving

Speed, NAV, blind-spot detections, wiper controls, even infotainment settings...

Yes - it's redundant. No, it's not needed in a self-driving car.

I'll even grant that the arguments about distraction and safety only apply at the edges.

It's still an enhancement to the driving experience.

And EM telling me that I "won't care" is simply... incorrect.

at best.

@Markr7 - I already intend to switch to the first true "drivers BEV" in my price range the *second* it comes on the market. I like the Model 3 for what it is... But it's truly not the car I was hoping for. My hope is that Tesla will build what I'm hoping to see but if not, I'll go with the manufacturer who does.

Thing is, it would take a relatively miniscule amount of work on Tesla's part to *make* it ideal - which is why I'm going to keep agitating for those changes. Make them added-cost options, so people who don't want them don't need to pay for them. I'd much rather pay $$$ for a HUD, XM and other driver-side tech that matches the ways and places I drive than the same amount for EAP and/or FSD, which leave me utterly cold.

Rocky_H | October 5, 2017

Just catching up here on a lot of comments. I think this is the highlight so far:

@carlk, Quote: “Funny how many people are willing to convince themselves the sky is falling without even trying to do a little investigation.”

That is abso-freakin-lutely hilarious coming from him, who hasn’t even used it, who is shooting down @eeb9’s _investigation_ of having driven the same model of car with and without HUD and noticing how much better the HUD experience is.

Anyway, it could be good or really good or not much difference, but I do keep getting a sense that all of the (majority) of people here who are criticizing it without ever having tried it are only doing so because Tesla doesn’t offer it, and they want Tesla to be right.

I’ve never gotten to try it, so I have no comment.

------------------------------------

Oh, and there’s this one:
@carlk, Quote: “This display thing has been explained to you well by Elon too-- YOU WON'T CARE.”

Yeah, I remember hearing about that, and it’s the most arrogant, assholish, and frankly Apple-like attitude ever! It’s about like how they think people shouldn’t have adjustable intermittent wipers they can set to their preference because they think auto-sensing is better for everyone. Well, guess what? That has sucked from day one, doesn’t work right, and is my biggest frustration with the car. Funny how it’s the opposite side of the coin as HUD, though, as far as what’s supposedly more advanced.

carlk | October 5, 2017

@Rocky_H

No one except the Tesla team has used it. Get it?

eeb9 | October 6, 2017

@carlk - subtle

So - drive a Model 3 without a HUD then drive one with (I *suspect* someone, somewhere in Tesla R&D has or can put one in on very short notice).

Then we’ll be even.

Same car, with and without. Note the difference. Choose accordingly.

Assuming that you have, in fact, driven the 3 as implied in your post, you still only have half the story.

Iwantmy3 | October 6, 2017

Look at the specs for this car (5.1s 0-60)
Look at the reviews for driving this car (laser like response to the steering)

This car was meant to be driven, not driven in.

I don't care what the performance specs or handling is like in a cab or uber I'm am driven in. I care about these things in the car that I am driving.

If Tesla wants to make self driving cars that people want to be driven in, then they shouldn't bother making them this fun to drive. The can make Bolt or Leaf look-alikes.

I don't understand why they would go through the effort of making such a high end drivers car and then skimp on the driver interface while saying "you won't care" because, for some reason, we don't want to drive it???

I am sure that I may be banned from these forums for saying this but...

Not everything that Elon says is gospel truth!

andy.connor.e | October 6, 2017

@Iwantmy3

Well you're not wrong. However, its just as truthful to suggest that what Elon says isnt always true, as much as all of us here complaining about the display/HUD of a car that none of us have sat inside of. Or had the pleasure of experiencing what its like to drive it. Try it out before complaining about it. I bet after a month, you'll think back on the "you wont care" statement.

carlk | October 6, 2017

@Iwantmy3

So you like to drive? Did you ever drive a Ferrari, a Porsche or a GT-R? How was HUD there work for you?

Again I'm not anti-anything all I want is to make sure we understand the difference between wants and needs. If there is a need Tesla team sure will know but it will not put any just "look good" or "feel good" stuff in the minimalist interior to screw up what they must have spent a lot efforts to do. That's just how Tesla do things from the day one. Like I said add this you want and add that I want pretty soon it will look just like any ordinary cars.

iPhone shocked people when it had just a very few buttons. Over the years it did not get more buttons but instead even less. Take a look at Tesla design you'll notice that's the direction it is going too. It's making the future car not another BMW or Lexus. No one would ban you from here but you are free to leave, the forum or the car, if it does not suit your desire.

Rocky_H | October 6, 2017

@carlk, Quote: "No one except the Tesla team has used it. Get it?"

Was it that unclear that the "it" I was referring to was the HUD interface, not the Model 3? @eeb9 has driven a car with HUD and without it, so it is one variable to be able to see the pros and cons of it. Someone saying, "We don't think it needs this, so that's what you should think too." isn't helpful. And then you go right ahead with further comparing Tesla to Apple, which makes my skin crawl. Apple lives in a bubble and think that their way is better than everything else and is what everyone should want, and if they have different preferences, they just don't "get it".

andy.connor.e | October 6, 2017

^
My car has its "dash" in the center. The real problem here is not the "Lack of" a HUD, but more that its in a different spot. And people can sometimes have a hard time envisioning that something different can work just as well. I think this has alot more to do with the fact that it will be such a massive change to some people, that it can be intimidating. Especially considering that we are STILL NOT ABLE TO DO TEST DRIVES.....

carlk | October 6, 2017

I think it's time again to remind everyone that Elon do engineering design by the first principle not by analogy. For most of us, and pretty much all auto companies too, all we can say is yes this car I've driven has it and seems pretty good so we should also put it in. Elon start from the fundamental facts and build up from there with what makes most sense. That's THE reason we got our Tesla today (and others got Bolt or Leaf).

andy.connor.e | October 6, 2017

Every ICE company has relatively the same exact vehicle lineup. Sedans, SUVs, Vans, Trucks, Crossovers. Thats why its so hard to envision that the Model 3 will be just as good. Its so different. And in fact its SO different, that people believe theres a problem with it before they've even tried it out.

Carl Thompson | October 6, 2017

@Iwantmy3:
"I don't understand why they would go through the effort of making such a high end drivers car and then skimp on the driver interface while saying 'you won't care' because, for some reason, we don't want to drive it???"

Exactly!

noleaf4me | October 6, 2017

Bingo CT!

ReD eXiLe ms us | October 7, 2017

Every time someone contributes the phrase 'true drivers car' I get visions of three pedals on the floor, a seven speed shifter, a handbrake, a gazillion dials, sliders, knobs, & buttons, and a whole bunch of noise. I do not expect Tesla to build one of those. Ever.

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