this is a game changer.
If you cant afford it without the tax credit, you should probably wait.
@andy.connor.e Wait, like earn more and save? What to wait for?
Here comes the afford word again. I can pay for 2 model Ss does that mean I can afford it? $7500 on a $35000 car is a game changer for a lot of people
@gatorj31 If it is for a "lot of people", get you deposit and move alone. We will get ours faster. I doubt those folks will be missed here for the know reasons - not enough cars and the waiting line is too long.
Actually, another way to look at this: Lets say new tax law reduces your effective tax liability by $2500/year. So loosing $7500 credit will be covered in 3 years. Considering the car loan will be 60/72 month term. When you finish loan you will be $7500-$10000 ahead and it will keep coming until they change the law. So there is affordability "big deal" debunked. Just do not get greedy, save on new tax and grab the rebate, be reasonable and progmatic.
This new tax plan is a piece of crap designed to assist billionaires and perhaps leave a few crumbs for others. If you live in blue states like California you will be losing your $7500, your state and tax deduction and likely your mortgage interest deduction because of housing prices. Also they are looking for cuts in Medical and Medicare and are still trying to gut Obamacare. So I guess I must have missed the good part.
But CA gives pretty big rebate on its own, We get nothing in PA. So you will use your CA rebate as you going to benefit less, but hey, your state grabs more from you so it gives a few folks an additional EV rebate, so enjoy.
California gives a $2500 rebate but it is income limited. I unfortunately earn too much. So I guess I am still not impressed with Trump’s Christmas gift
@SCCRENDO - Unfortunately, you make too much money? That is a serious problem!
The idea that we will save more money from supposed tax cuts to make up for the loss of the EV tax credit is false logic. Any tax savings to us will also apply to ICE buyers and does not create an incentive for an EV purchase. Plus if the tax cuts really do benefit everyone equally (which I doubt) they will just change the baseline that everything is measured from.
Besides helping his friends and family Trump’s tax plan is horrible. I am betting it won’t pass but I also laughed at the thought that the country would be stupid enough to elect him. It is anti-blue state with the loss of state and local tax deduction and ending the EV tax reflects his anti environment and anti climate change philosophy. The oil industry gets tons of government tax breaks and incentives and her has vowed to reopen coal mines. He even wanted to decimate the 401k and has reduced real estate deductions. Come on Mueller. Continue to move forward and lets try convince the REpublican congressional puppets that it is time to impeach our esteemed leader.
Does not matter to me. 7500 or not I'm still in. Not to save the environment but because I think Tesla is way cool and EV's are the future. The credit would have ended for Tesla by the end of 2018 anyway and probably GM and Nissan shortly there after. What it does do is level the field with all the new companies, Mercedes, Porsche etc that will have to sell EV's without the credit which by then Tesla would have been out anyway.
And @johnmann. No "everyone" wont benefit from the credit. If you could itemize before, State and Local taxes and Mortgage interest and they will exceed the new Standard deductions and if the new tax bracket on your taxable wont compensate for that then you'll not see any extra return. ps. Obamacare did not benefit "everyone" either. If your job did not offer ins and your income did not make it possible to even buy OC then at tax time you paid a tax penalty that for some exceeded what the new tax plan could save them. (freedom of choice at a price:)
"The credit would have ended for Tesla by the end of 2018 anyway and probably GM and Nissan shortly there after."
Not true. When the 200,000 domestic delivery is hit by a manufacturer, the credit by definition goes on another 4-7 quarters. So more like 2019 for Tesla, further out for others.
This is not a done deal, the GOP has to get this congress in the next 19 days of legislation before they go home.
Contact your representatives and voice concern.
Except for 2018, elimination of the tax credit could benefit Tesla. GM and Tesla are getting close to the phase out of the credit already - so by 2019, the credit for their cars will either be gone or reduced and phasing out.
The bigger long term impact will be for the other manufacturers, who will be bringing out competing long range EVs. If the tax credit was still in place, they'd have a $7500 advantage over Tesla (and GM) when they start selling cars in 2019. But without the tax credit, they'll be on a level playing field.
Our Model 3 delivery window just shifted to Nov 17-Jan 18. I'll admit that if our delivery won't happen until January and the new tax bill is passed, we might defer our order until later next year and get a Model 3 with more color options, dual motor and air suspension (and possibly working Enhanced AutoPilot).
The existing tax credit is coming to end anyway for Tesla once it passes the 200K. So the tax plan elimination just means less conpetition for other makers starting EV sales.
There is no guarantee that this bill will pass is there? Some articles say that the GOP believes this is a “lay up” and other articles say that several there will be several people in the GOP who will oppose it, especially in the Senate. I guess sit back and wait to see what happens.
Here's the rub -- if you can't afford this car - you may not make enough even to take advantage of this tax CREDIT. It may make some people choose less options -- but frankly I doubt that even 10% of the reservation holder drop off just because of the tax credit being lost.My fear is the launch delay will have a greater effect.
Trump and the cons are all thieves. If you voted for them, you're no friend of mine. I live a trash-free life and I'm very happy without having to deal with feckless imbeciles. That said, I'm really glad I waited in line overnight to get my reservation.
If you can afford it, then there is no rush to buy the car, the biggest advantage was the tax credit for me. I will wait until I need a new car, and get a newer model 3.
I am reminded of the 1960’s space race when President Kennedy laid out America’s vision to be first to put a man on the moon. Many thought the tax payer’s money could be better spent on other worthy programs than on the Apollo missions. Of course, the space race made America a leader in technology and accelerated the development on semiconductors, computers, and many high tech industries.
Today the EV industry is in a similar situation. It will take the national will, vision, and support to truly make the EV a first choice for the average citizen in need of a car. If the tax break is eliminated, EV market penetration will suffer, and EV will only be affordable for the privileged few.
Let’s hope the EV tax break lasts long enough for the EV industry to mature and be self sustaining.
I think the biggest loss will be for the manufacturers, including Tesla. I will still get the car, and keep my Model X. The Model 3 will be my wife's commuting car. and she probably would not care about getting the premium package. The same applies to other people and other brands. People may get more options than they would otherwise be interested in, simply because of the tax credit. That will mean that the margin will go down on all the cars. Bear in mind that GM is already losing money on the Bolt, which is not selling well. Dealers are not really trying hard to sell EVs, which also does not help. My wife recently took a Bolt for a test drive, and the sales person knew less about the car than my 12 year old. While we can afford car as soon as it becomes available, my wife already has a car that is in good condition, that should last a few more years. Even expensive repairs will only be equal to a couple of car payments, so if the clever administration would like to stimulate the economy, then they should not destroy the tax credit. We can and will wait for the car. The only incentive for getting it soon is the tax credit.
Sadly, the oil and gas industry has no interest in anyone driving anything but vehicles that promote further extraction and use of oil. The question is how much money did they give to your congressman, which might influence how he / she may vote more than your call. Follow the money...
@Lonestar10_1999 - agree! We could use the credit for another year or so. I still think they should modify it so it begins to phase out for ALL manufacturers once any one manufacturer hits 200k vehicles sold. This may stimulate all the slackers to get something to market a whole lot sooner rather than coming late to the game and having an unfair advantage.
In general though -- it really does not matter that much. China, India and much of Europe already are moving forward to ban the ICE -- and since the US is now less than 20% of the global market for new cars -- what we do really will not matter that much. It will be too expensive for the big auto makers to be fully invested in more than one powertrain. And ICE will lose out.
I don't think 10% reservation holder will drop out, but more like 50%. Not every reservation holder is a fanboy like on this forum. Without the race for the tax credit, people will want to wait and see what options they may have. Those undecided about what configuration or AWD will decide to hold off purchase instead of taking first production. Also, many do not want to be first and let someone else work the bugs out.
It looks like there are quite a few free loaders and handouts seekers in the queue. Kind of glad of this EV credit repeal, although I would gladly take it (just like buck of rich folks before me), there is no way I would base my car purchasing decision on tax rebates alone. Many good folks will get the car and get their tax refund in other broad ways when EV rebate is repealed, so good riddance, we get ahead by other means. Actually, Tesla itself is responsible for creating this negative EV tax rebate perception as they catered to very rich to enter and establish itself in EV market, but those rich customers ended up to be beneficiaries of EV tax rebates, although they never needed any help buying Tesla cars in the first place. This is the main reason of other tax payers anger toward it, even it was a good thing to do, just wrong crowd ripped the benefits of it.
Just because I would delay my purchase if the rebate is no longer on the table, I don't think that makes me a "freeloader." It's a discretionary purchase and the threat of losing the rebate was a primary factor in the timing. It's not unusual for someone to time their purchases according to when a discount or rebate is available: in fact, creating a sense of urgency is the whole point of offering a discount or rebate.
As a consumer, it doesn't matter to me who is offering the rebate, just that it is being offered and that it will expire soon, so I might miss it. So, I tried my best to claim it by buying a Tesla M3, even standing in line overnight, paying a deposit sight unseen and waiting over a year for a car without even knowing for sure when it would be available.
But, after all of that, it's looking like I will not be able to claim the rebate. OK, life goes on. I'll still get an electric car when the time and price is right. Maybe even a Model 3. Or possibly a Y (I've always preferred hatchbacks, anyway.) And I'm 100% sure I'll be happy with my eventual purchase so I'm not worried about it. Does this make me a freeloader either way? I don't think so, not at all.
@weluvm3 I am not the judge who is who, but you have a great drive for discounts. There is plenty of other cars to claim EV credit rebate at this moment. I would not even consider the EV and hybrids even if they give me 2 times the rebate as those cars just a joke. Why not take it elsewhere if EV rebate is so important. I want to buy Tesla EV because of it is the best EV on the planet currently and it kicks many entry level german ICE cars and makes them look and feel like a second hand junk.
Actually, it is possible that we might get a Bolt if I cannot get an M3 before the tax credits expire. I test drove one, and I honestly think it's not a bad car. With the available discounts and the rebates, it seems like a decent value.
I would have preferred an M3, but I've never owned any car for more than 4 years, so I'm sure I'll own a Tesla eventually regardless which car I happen to purchase next. In fact, having a Bolt in addition to an M3 might be how things eventually shake out for our family.
As for German ICE cars, I kind of liked my Polo, but I agree that I'd never want to purchase another ICE again if I can avoid it.
@weluvm3 Interesting, I would not even bother to buy car for such a short period. Most of my cars stays in my household for 10-15 years. I do my research and buy a car I would want to keep for a while and then pass to kids. It looks like leasing would be a better, but of course no EV rebates. I think in states like CA with additional $2500 a lot of folks just playing the system to grab $10000 every car swap (kind of beats the lease), no wonder the rest of the country folks hate those rebates. Looks like this game will be over soon though.
Collnewworld represents the hypocrisy and pathetic behavior in the left. He wants tax payers who gets no benefit from his $40K+ electric car to pay his downpayment, and they are the ones who are thieves. Irrational.
Well, I never plan on keeping a car for a short period, but it just seems to work out that way for one reason or another.
I loved my Polo, to be honest. But it wasn't worth shipping here when we moved. The car I replaced it with here was definitely not it's equal.
It's entirely possible that we'd hold onto an M3 for 10 years if it was really as good as we hope. I'd love it if it were true. I hope we all get a chance to find out.
I was actually relieved when I heard about this. 1) Tesla is near the end regarding the credit. They will probably hit 200,000 by the second or third quarter of 2018, so the phase-out was close at hand anyway. 2) Now I'm seriously considering getting a used Model S once the market is flooded with them. 3) I was desperate to buy a Model 3 as soon as possible in order to get the credit. Now I can afford to wait for the $35,000 version.
This will definitely make me change my package selection. I will wait for AWD . No point trying to buy early when there are no tax credit.
Yes, you can get 2015 S with little milage for $50K, but it has an old autopilot software (no FSD), but great fully loaded AWD model S, just need to be ready to go quite a distance to pick it up though. 2016 model S (FSD capable) are kind of pricey though.
Praying the $7500 cut wont be signed into law.
Lonestar10_1999: +42! Excellent post!
WantM3: The Federal EV Tax Credit simply allows someone to KEEP more of the money that they EARNED. It is not a 'handout' at all. People who take advantage of it are NOT 'freeloaders' either.
@Lonestar10_1999 Big Thumbs up!
EV industry is still in infant stage, it needs more support, financially.
USA, used to be a leader in everything, now even China and India are scheduling to terminate the sale of ICEs, are now going backwards!
@Syruspicarus2016 - "Collnewworld represents the hypocrisy and pathetic behavior in the left. He wants tax payers who gets no benefit from his $40K+ electric car to pay his downpayment, and they are the ones who are thieves. Irrational."
First, Coolnewworld never actually mentioned the tax credit, it was political rant that you turned into a personal attack - well done.
Second, There are a great many secondary benefits of an electric car that everyone gets to enjoy. Less noise, less harmful emissions, greater energy efficiency, and others.
Third, it has nothing to do with the down payment. In fact you don't even get the credit until after you file your taxes for the year that you take delivery in. So it could be months to almost an entire year before you see it.
Fourth, how, by any definition of the word, could you possible call it thievery? It's a tax "credit" you are only getting credit for what you have already paid. It is your own money that you get back, no one else's. And the government is giving it to you, you don't need to steal it, it's no different from any other tax credit.
@WantM3 - Freeloaders? At age 30 I took a huge risk buying a way-too-expensive car because I believed in the company and believed, with just enough customers, they could actually get as far as making a more affordable mass market car.
You best believe I took my $7,500 Federal credit AND $2,000 Pennsylvania credit (which I think still exists in another amount) with a smile on my face since I pay a whole lot more than that per year to each. Freeloader isn't accurate.
PG x 1000
While i understand some may call it a game changer, let me (hopefully not) be the first to suggest to you, that playing your poker hand relying on the Federal Government to ensure its viability, was not the best decision.
yes hypocrisy and pathetic DOES describe the current administration. Fixed that for u.
Give me a break if you admire anything don does or stands for. just a flaming pile o ....
Problems have existed for many. many..... decades. But thats another topic in and of itself.
I'm worried about the company's cash burn. I'm beginning to think I'll never get my Model 3. I have no intention of asking for my deposit back but I'm now worried about short sellers destroying this stock.
Stock wont stop the company. You the consumer determines their fate.
People who are having issues about the tax credit or affordability can get a loan calculator, figure out what their car payments would be and start putting aside that amount monthly (in some vehicle that is both liquid, but also is earning some %). This gives you time to see how comfortable you are with the payments, as well as giving you a cushion to pay from when you finally get the car.
Nevada senator (R) came out against dropping EV credit. Could it have anything to do with the Gigafactory? Who knows? They have a slim majority in the senate. The tax credit is such small change that they will leave it if it means a couple more votes.
Zero chance of passing any time soon, not to mention very power-full lobby, they will make sure it is taken out of the legislation. They have no votes right now, so why worry?