Is 3phase charging possible / better ?

Is 3phase charging possible / better ?

We have a 3 Phase 208v (20kw) plug in our barn. Is used for a plasma cutter and welder usually. Am wondering if I can charge off that plug and if doing so will be faster then the standard NEMA 14-50 we have in our garage.

It would stand to reason that 3phase should push more amps to the battery but not sure if this is actually the case. The superchargers surely are using 3 phase power (but its DC and skipping the in car charger).

Thoughts ?

Thanks | September 29, 2013

Not possible in North America. You could try and get a Euro-spec MS, but then no US chargers and Superchargers will work. Europe MS have a 3-phase charger electronics built in, which is different than the US. It also has a completely different charging connector (much larger) so that you loose the cool color ring LEDs.

Superchargers do take in 3-phase power, but it outputs DC to the car, so no luck there unless you can buy a Supercharger for your barn (could be very expensive).

holstein13 | September 29, 2013

As best I can tell, the Model S is only designed to accept 2 phase 50 or 30 amp service. I was thinking you could use the HPWC but that is only designed for 2 phase 240 volt service as well.

I would imagine that Tesla figured that so few people have three phase power available that it wasn't worth designing the charger to accept it.

TSLAholic | September 29, 2013

It seems the "cool color ring LEDs" had to be relocated in order to accommodate the larger Euro-spec plug. The charge indicator is now the 3 vertical dots on the taillight surface just to the right of the plug.

shop | September 29, 2013

@jkilberg - do you have dual chargers in your car?

ikold | September 30, 2013

I do have dual chargers.

shop | September 30, 2013

In the US, the only options for more than 10kW charging are getting an HPWC or a high powered J1772 charger. The portable Universal Mobile Charger can only accept 40a max. (10kW). The HPWC is cheaper, and can often be bought from these forums from people that have one, but don't use it, don't want it. You have to wire it up to a suitable breaker box with a 100amp breaker.

shop | September 30, 2013

Also, meant to add that an electrician can wire up an HPWC to your 3 phase power in your barn.

holstein13 | October 1, 2013

@shop, where did you see that the HPWC can be wired to 3 phase power. The specs specifically say 240 volt. Did I miss something?

ir | October 1, 2013

The HPWC installation manual specifically rules out 3-phase:

"The High Power Wall Connector is a single-phase device. Do not connect all 3 phases of a 3-phase feed."

The manual mentions European certifications so I'm pretty sure there isn't a special Euro HPWC.

shop | October 1, 2013

Page 5 of this manual shows how to connect to three phase power. I didn't mean to imply that all three phases would be used, only that you could hook it up to a three phase panel.

ikold | October 1, 2013

If anybody has one that they'd like to sell, please let me know.

hpjtv | September 10, 2014

@paul you mean single phase 240V. Both the 120V to ground Hot lines are on the same phase thus giving you 240V between them. I don't think there is such a thing as a 2 phase utility supply. For connecting 3-phase to the HWPC, you use 2 of the 3 phases of a 3-phase output. You get 208V on a 3-phase wye connection or 240V on a 3-phase delta connection.

dborn | September 11, 2014

@ikold true 3 phase in Australia and probably Europe gives 400 odd volts and uses up to 32 amps. I don't know the exact Mathis, but this equates to approx 20 kW and so makes full use of the dual chargers. Each phase is 240 volts. I do know that the calculation is not arithmetic as it is for single phase.
Tesla is developing a wall connector to be available to us next year, which will take in 3 phase and output the full 20 kW. In the interim, we will be using single phase wall connectors in Australia supplied by Tesla, which they swap over when the 3 phase become available, at no charge.

hpjtv | September 11, 2014

@dborn You multiply the single phase voltage by the square root of 3 to get the 3-phase voltage. So 120V * sqrt 3 = 208V and in your case, 240V * sqrt 3 = 415V

sule | September 11, 2014

Phases are "sinusoids". If they are in in the same phase (equal) the difference between them is 0, you get nothing. Difference from one sinusoid to neutral/0 is that sinusoid. The difference between two sinusoids shifted from one another over time (different "phase") depends on how great the shift is between them relative to their period (assuming same amplitude and frequency). If they are completely opposite (180 degrees phase apart), then the "peaks" of one coincide with the "valleys" of another and you get twice the amplitude. This is North American two phase system producing 240V. When the phases are 120 degrees apart (say as in three phase system), the difference is less (but you have multiple phases). If you took two 120V phases from a three phase system the difference between them is no longer 240V but 208V (between any two of them, the difference between any of the phases and neutral/0 remains 120V).

In Europe each phase to neutral/0 is twice that of North America: 220-240V. There are three phases 120 degrees apart. Between any two phases you get 380-416V).

hpjtv | September 11, 2014

@sule The 240V 100A coming to your typical house is single phase. It is center tapped thus giving you 120V. The peak to peak difference of the single sinusoidal wave is 240V. I am an electrical engineer.

There is a center tap but it is still on the same phase.

And it is not the peak to peak, it is the RMS value of the sinewave.