Elon Musk vs John Peterson DEBATE

Elon Musk vs John Peterson DEBATE

Ok I think it is pretty clear that John Peterson is the most prolific anti-EV voice on the internet. He has nearly 25,000 posts on one investment website alone. Google anything negative about batteries or EV's and his name is sure to pop up. The scary thing is that he has a pretty huge following, and people are actually listening to his lies. Some of which are as follows:

- He constantly makes claims that full EV's are a waste of battery use (he thinks hybrids save more petrol overall for the price).

- He thinks batteries are far too energy intensive to produce and only generate a payback if used in small hybrid applications. Despite not taking into account the ICE vehicle industry OR the oil/gas industry's cradle to grave energy inefficiencies OR the fact that EV's and their batteries could be nearly 100% recyclable and powered by renewable energy.

-He claims there are no economies of scale to be had in the battery industry so mass production won't bring costs down ever.

- He claims there are not enough physical resources in the earth to make all vehicles full BEV's

- He thinks battery technology is far from any significant improvement and even if we do get a breakthrough the new batteries will be far too expensive to ever be practical for at least 20 years.

- He thinks battery cycle life is unsuitable for full BEV's - they won't last long enough.

- He personally dislikes Elon and has labelled him as "suffering from some form of delusional ADD" because he thinks he is smart enough to run three cutting edge companies at the same time.

- He has attacked Tesla's methods of accounting and thinks they are violating company laws by using deposits to fund operations.

- And much much more.

I say we get these guys into a room and let them debate these issues.
Peterson is single handedly trying to destroy the BEV industry and Tesla most of all...because if Tesla is successful the tiny battery company that he owns a large amount of shares in is toast (because it relies on small battery hybrid type applications in vehicles to survive).

I know people will say that Elon shouldn't waste his time on people like this...but this is THE GUY in terms of the anti-EV crowd...silence him and we will go a long way towards silencing most of the EV critics out there.

Plus I think it would be awesome to watch Elon thrash this arrogant douchebag!

C'mon Elon! I know you read these forums (or somebody from Tesla does)...lets make this happen!

Jewsh | December 2, 2013

@Brian H:
"A dog yapping along behind the racing fire engine. "

An interesting image and funny to boot.

carlgo | December 2, 2013

Yawn. Nobody will watch a scientific debate, one with endless statistics and big science words. It would be better for Musk to go fishing or something.

The success of Tesla depends on the quality of the product, the price and how to recharge it conveniently, not some anal-ists twittering or whatever.

just an allusion | December 4, 2013

EV vs. Hybrid...There is no comparison as the latter is focused on desperately clinging to a long antiquated technology based on a finite and ever diminishing resource whose usage poisons the people and the planet we live on, whereas the fore is focused on clean, renewable energy regeneration/creation, the future, and moving the World forward with it.

Like I said, no comparison.

Julian Cox | December 7, 2013

Tesla: A Comprehensive Review of Leading FUD Touchpoints


- Battery Safety

- Cell Supply Constraint

- Giga facory vs Capex

- GAAP Lease Accounting

- Environmental credentials

- Fuel Cell Vehicles

- Production Projections

- Profitability

- Full discussion on the definition of disruptive technologies

Yes I am sick of reading a diet of unmitigated and erroneous FUD on the subject of Tesla.


Brian H | December 7, 2013

Yum. Very nice.

orthophonist | December 7, 2013

If nothing, Mr. Peterson is driven. Has anyone asked him why he is so driven? It surely must occupy most of his time. Perhaps this seemingly OC output has its roots elsewhere.

Haeze | December 8, 2013

John Petersen is a VP and CFO of ePower Engine Systems who makes Hybrid drive trains, and he is highly involved with Axion Power Intl. who makes Lead Carbon battery systems.

So basically, he is biased because he is competing with (and losing to) Tesla on two fronts: Battery Systems and Vehicle Drive-trains.

eepic | December 12, 2013

@Julian Cox

Very well written piece. You've clearly done your research, and hit a lot of good points.

If I may offer some feedback if you plan on editing and/or republishing later on, my personal opinion would be that there's a bit too much of the "X is FUD" throughout, as the almost bitter tone of it may cause some readers to question whether there is some other motivation for what's being written. Of course, the informed readers know that what you are writing is true.

Also there were a few typos here and there, a few I noted near the end are:
"Nither", "Perhapse"

But again, kudos to a better analysis than anything put out by the amateurs on Seeking Alpha or Motley Fool.

Docrob | December 12, 2013

JP's most frequent criticism of Tesla is that they ""refuse" to release a comprehensive lifecycle analysis of the cars energy and carbon intensity. To put this argument to bed Tesla should commission such a study.

Just to take issue with one point the OP made: He constantly makes claims that full EV's are a waste of battery use (he thinks hybrids save more petrol overall for the price).

This is almost certainly true. Given the average daily driving distance is 30 miles, having batteries for 40 miles (~10kwh) saves the vast majority of fuel use, the remaining 75Kwh of energy intensive battery gets significantly diminished returns because it is used far less frequently. That's not to say the Tesla doesn't decrease energy use over its usable lifetime, however if you calculate total fuel saved per kWh of battery capacity a plug in hybrid will definitely come out on top.

The rest of Mr Petersen's ramblings about only vampires being able to charge EV's with solar and Model S's being more carbon intensive because thy produce more emissions over their lifetime than a Nissan Versa are just bizarre and incoherent.

Michaelchu328 | December 18, 2013

It depends on when you charge you car, if you charge in the middle of the night using off peak and surplus power, it would be completely zero emissions.