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Perpetual Motion Machine

Perpetual Motion Machine

I would like Elon Musk to add this to his list of many projects because I think he could achieve it. According to Edgar Cayce's prophecy as well as clues taken from Nikola Tesla's Gravity Motor invention, it will come to pass. Think of it - no need to refuel or even charge your car... ever!

http://www.human-resonance.org/gravity_motor.html

Brian H | October 10, 2014

A Perp Mot machine, were it possible, would be a lossless, frictionless battery equivalent. Important, but not free energy.

Red Sage ca us | October 13, 2014

Luckily though , petroleum is eternal.

(9.9)

Dramsey | October 13, 2014

So is ignorance and idiocy, judging from the OP.

3seeker | October 13, 2014

Do I sense a case if reflection here? Don't care if you call me ignorant or an idiot... I hope I could see this become a reality in my lifetime. It takes great minds like Elon Musk's who can make the impossible possible. I'm posting this in case he reads it. He is a big dreamer after all, unlike some people...

Dramsey | October 13, 2014

You may be a dreamer; you're also ignorant. This is not my opinion, it is a fact, because you think perpetual motion is achievable if really bright people just think about it hard enough.

Basic physical laws of the universe would have to change to make perpetual motion possible.

People like you are the fuel that feeds the scammers who keep coming up with their latest schemes-- check on YouTube for a current list. Since you believe in the concept, I urge you to pick a few of the best-looking ones and send them money. You do want to make a difference rather than passively sitting around and waiting for other people to do the work, right?

3seeker | October 13, 2014

Yes I believe it's possible, maybe through acoustic resonance. If I could, I would @Dramsey. I'm just not an expert physicist like you are.

nikolateslas88 | October 13, 2014

the tesla "utilization of radiant energy " patent 1901, was a good example, not truely free energiii, but shows that man can harness unlimited power from the cosmic particles that bombard every portion of space, some particles traveling many times the speed of light with energetic energies, that can impinge a charge onto insulated metal plates, comparable to solar power, only radiant energy is available day or night....

the tesla unipolar generator reduced the lorenz force to zero making less of a back emf on the rotation copper disc. he never pursued this invention but it demonstrates the limits of electrical theory and that in rare cases man can cancel out resistive currents in a circuit which may lead to "fr** energ*y"

these are atleast two of nikola teslas important scientific findings for increaseing human consumption of energy. they dont teach you this in school sadly :(

Timo | October 13, 2014

...some particles traveling many times the speed of light...

No such particles have been detected. Tesla was wrong.

Dramsey | October 13, 2014

Yes I believe it's possible, maybe through acoustic resonance. If I could, I would @Dramsey. I'm just not an expert physicist like you are.

"Acoustic resonance"? Howls of derisive laughter to that, Bruce.

Thanks for noting that you're not an expert physicist, but I think most of us figured that out already.

Red Sage ca us | October 13, 2014

Perpetual? Well, unless I manage to live a few billion years, everything I have ever observed will remain in motion, relative to the center of the Universe.

Timo | October 14, 2014

Assuming universe has center.

blue adept | October 14, 2014

@dramsey

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Basic physical laws of the universe would have to change to make perpetual motion possible.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

That's not entirely accurate as there is no real need of 'changing' the laws when we can use our ingenuity to devise ways of sidestepping them, e.g., take NASA's flywheel:

It employs certain techniques to circumvent the laws of thermodynamics and motion to that would typically afflict such functionality to achieve the desired results.

Just saying.

Timo | October 14, 2014

That does nothing to circumvent anything. It's just fast-spinning mass in really really good bearings. F=ma and all that basic Newtonian physics.

Timo | October 14, 2014

Also losses every time you convert one form of energy to another. Electric motors are nearly the best converters we have in that (electric to kinetic), and it still is just 98% at best. There are no 100% efficient converters.

DTsea | October 14, 2014

Conservation of energy. You can't create energy out of nothing.

DTsea | October 14, 2014

Funny.

My kids are very energetic but, in physics terms, of course they increase entropy on a net basis.

DTsea | October 14, 2014

Ah. That would be 'extracting work.' Another thing impossible to achieve with perpetual motion machines.

DTsea | October 14, 2014

Also the disorder they leave behind them with their unbelievably messy rooms is of course another increase in entropy. Particularly tasty is how they clean rooms by throwing clean laundry down the laundry chute.

Dramsey | October 14, 2014

just,

What you're "just saying" is that you don't understand basic physics.

The NASA flywheel is a simple device: a rotating mass in an evacuated chamber on magnetic bearings. It uses rotational inertia to store energy.

It's not "circumventing" any laws of thermodynamics or motion. There's nothing magic or special about it. It's not even a new idea, as mag-bearing flywheels in evacuated chambers have been lab curiosities for decades.

carlgo | October 14, 2014

Flywheels ARE cool though. I WANT them to replace batteries really. Probably won't, sadly. Even though, established people and labs continue to work on them, so there must be at least some hope.

Sparky | October 14, 2014

If you want a PMM why not just capture rainwater and run it down a steeply sloped pipe to drive a turbine connected to a generator which would supply electricity to a vast world wide power grid available to recharge electric vehicles?

...oh, what's that? Don't distract me when I'm working on something new!

DTsea | October 14, 2014

Flywheel in a car? Bad day in a crash.

nikolateslas88 | October 14, 2014

TESLA HEAT ENGINE.....

Nikola Tesla had also another type of idea towards creating a energy draw in reference to the surrounding atmosphere. what happens is you cool a part of space so much that the surrounding atmosphere becomes super hot to the cold draw reference point, and thus an energy potential difference is set up like a high tech heat engine. the hot surrounding is being drawn to the critically cold center of the engine and in the process USEFUL ENERGY IS GIVEN OFF from the hot atmosphere moving to cold.

the middle part of the engine is where the difference of energy is drawn off for usable power. part of the power is used to keep the cold draw toward the center of the engine and part of the energy can be drawn off for industrial use.

at first the engine would take energy to start the process, but then it would begin to run in a self sustained reaction, because the inner medium needs less energy to maintain the inward pull of heat from the surroundings...NOT FFRREE ENNERRGY BUT EXTREMLY CLOSE...

THE PANASONIC HEAT ENGINE FROM THE 60S, IS A SIMILAR IDEA, THOUGH ITS NOT MADE COLD ENOUGH BUT SHOWS THE REVERSE OF A COLD TO HOT TRANSFER OF ENERGY VS A STERLING CYCLE ENGINE.....

DTsea | October 14, 2014

And how nt 88 do you cool the cold sink?

Hint: refrigeration costs energy.

Next?

nikolateslas88 | October 14, 2014

yes i said that in my post. it takes some energy to create a heat draw to the cold. once that is established the idea is that less energy is used to maintain the cold draw vs the amount of heat being drawn into the motor thus the motor uses partial of its energy to maintain the cold draw and still there is energy left over to use for energy production. tesla said this as an idea if man could get close to a energy source that makes energy from heat which we encounter in all processes of energy production at some point. tesla was focusing on the culprit of heat as a way to gain energy from its reduction.

"increasing human energy" by nikola tesla. last part of the article. brilliantly written article about energy production for mankind in general. please research tesla before dismissing his great work. that article still applies to todays world even more than it did back then.

DTsea | October 14, 2014

That won't work.

The max efficency of a heat engine running perfectly is (tmax-tmin)/tmax with all temps in absolute (rankine or kelvin).

A temperature drop from ambient to freezing then allows max about 10 percent efficency.

The losses to refrigerate a cavity to freezing exceed the energy extracted by much more than that.

This is like trying to run a generator with an electric motor. It can't work.

DTsea | October 14, 2014

Hate to break this to the nikola tesla fans... He was a brilliant guy in some ways but a lot of his ideas were verging on mysticism, not grounded in workable engineering or physics.

DTsea | October 14, 2014

Hate to break this to the nikola tesla fans... He was a brilliant guy in some ways but a lot of his ideas were verging on mysticism, not grounded in workable engineering or physics.

Just took a look at OP's link. It's all about psychic reading communication. With tesla. As the substantiation for secret technology. Suppressed by american nazis.

Ummmmm..... can you say 'cuckoo?'

nikolateslas88 | October 14, 2014

but its not a typical heat engine... (face palm)

again this was just teslas suggestion in his article.

you extract the energy as the heat tries to neutralize the cold center of the engine allowing the temperature gradient to continue with less and less energy to maintain the gradient. materials become super conducting and basic heat transfer models become false at the extreme range of cold temperatures. look up super helium as one demonstration of the heat transfer effects become a new set of heat transfer protocols. this device is working at the extremes not a basic sterling cycle......

DTsea | October 14, 2014

You want to chill it to supercomputer ducting temps.

Ok let's say absolute zero.

Then ideally you could extract 100% of the energy from the warm air. Got it.

But.... to remove that heat again.... takes more energy than you extracted from the air. It won't work. It can't work. You can't use the heat output of a refrigerator to power a refrigerator.

DTsea | October 14, 2014

Sorry phone autocorrect... superconductor not super computer.

7thGate | October 14, 2014

I am having a hard time telling if these perpetual motion threads are being created by people who are serious or not. Remember everyone, if you can create a perpetual motion machine, you're going to become the richest person ever in short order. The reason we don't have one is because all indicators currently point to them being impossible to build according to all the laws of physics we have observed, so smart people think about the problem then decide to go do something that is actually possible. http://xkcd.com/808/ sums this one up nicely.

DTsea | October 14, 2014

Optimism is eternal I guess.

Blind optimism is, well, blind.

Juggernaut | October 14, 2014

I know nothing of the laws of physics, but I am pretty smart. So, that makes me an excellent candidate for inventing the PPM. What I don't know actually will help me get this going, and with all the money I'll make after I've invented PM I'll finally be able to order my Model S for real. Please excuse me while I get to thinking really hard...

nikolateslas88 | October 14, 2014

another science is breed reactors, this process creates more atoms of an element which again burns in the nucleeearrr process it can yield 1 to 2 times nucleearrr product. this one is very interesting. it also suggests the addition of matter and energy to a process and also a possible free energy apparatus. its not commonly used, its becoming a new part of nucleaarr energy again even though its like 60 year old technology..

the process is very clean nucleaarr to energy conversion. the faster the process though dangerous has yielded more atoms than were used to make the reaction occur....

its good to look at these sciences cause they do suggest the possibility of energy from nothing.

Dramsey | October 14, 2014

You seriously think a breeder reactor is some sort of free energy or perpetual motion machine? Arg.

You simply have no idea what you're talking about.

nikolateslas88 | October 14, 2014

no im not saying it is. its just something producing more matter in some instances. well give some info bro, were trying to be scientific, and its sadly just insults with no info... cmon, please explain to us, lifes about learning, and if you know share what can help people.... thx

we still dont know how far the universe extends, if its infinite then reality could show this in our science as well... there isnt a full agreement on dark energy or things like that,so there is not a full understanding of reality.

Brian H | October 14, 2014

As I mentioned above, a PPM can do nothing but coast, or spin. As soon as you try to extract any energy it runs down. It all ends up as heat, and eventually everything will be the same temperature. Heat Death. The End.

Red Sage ca us | October 14, 2014

"I don't know... Therefore... ALIENS!" -- a popular internet meme

DTsea | October 14, 2014

A breeder creates nothing. It just converts non fissile U238 to plutonium.

You do know that even without radioactivity, plutonium is one of the most toxic materials known?

blue adept | October 15, 2014

@Timo

Actually, it doesn't have any physical "bearings", rather, they are magnetic which utilize the opposing forces of magnetism and diamagnetism to suspend/levitate the flywheel.

Next....

blue adept | October 15, 2014

@shensierra

Well, they've actually managed to induce a vacuum within the flywheel's chamber that serves to prevent it's motion from falling prey to such detriments as 'friction'.

Next....

blue adept | October 15, 2014

@Dramsey

Actually, the use of magnetic bearings and evacuated chambers are both recent iterations of the technology.

I've never mentioned anything about it being "magic", but it is exceptional in that the combination of the vacuum induced chamber and the magnetic bearings allow it to avoid such hindrances as friction and resistance which, in turn, enables it with the ability to circumvent the detriment of heat generation as a result of its function.

In this type of configuration, once spun up, the flywheel could potentially spin forever as there are no forces to impede its revolutions and induce entropy.

Perhaps we're not quite there yet, but we're damn close.

Look, I didn't post here to engage in an argument, just to present an alternative perspective complete with information that validates my position by way of encouraging an open dialog devoid of judgmental criticisms to get people thinking.

Why not try not to be so damn dismissive and encourage the thought process with constructive critique instead of circumventing it, afterall, imagine what the World would be like if people like Alexander Bell, Isaac Newton, the Wright brothers, Archimedes, Charles Babbage, James Watt, Einstein, etc., etc., or even our very benefactor's namesake, Nikola Tesla, listened to everyone telling them what was "impossible" and just didn't pursue their ideas?

Just saying.

blue adept | October 15, 2014

~fini~

Carry on now.

Timo | October 15, 2014

@just

Nothing circumvented. Normal laws of physics still apply. Even with magnetic bearings there is still friction caused by magnetic field itself. Vacuum is never completely pure. There are few stray atoms hitting the wheel every now and then.

And even if it was completely frictionless in pure vacuum it would still not break any laws. It would just be spinning lump on matter in a vacuum, nothing special. You can't extract any energy from it without slowing it down.

jgreelis | October 15, 2014

nikolteslas88 & byebyeoil - keep your dreams alive, don't let the Monday morning quarterback physicists deter your thinking. You have to understand they are coming from a different box than you and I. I doubt it could be expressed any better than this:

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-- George Bernard Shaw

Don't get me wrong, they indeed do serve a real and needed service, they keep those unreasonable weirdos on their toes, and even provide motivation and determination to succeed, if for no other matter than just to prove them wrong!

bmeupteleport.con

Dramsey | October 15, 2014

Why not try not to be so damn dismissive and encourage the thought process with constructive critique instead of circumventing it,

There is no way to constructively criticize perpetual motion schemes; being dismissive is the only reasonable response, although I'm happy to throw in a helping of contempt and ridicule, because that's all these ideas deserve.

Yes: there are indeed ideas that are that damn stupid. It's as if you asked me to seriously consider the idea that unicorns exist, that mole men live in the hollow earth, or that the pyramids were built by aliens.

People posting about Tesla's "gravity engine" or trying to hold up breeder reactors or maglev flywheels as examples of systems that somehow sidestep the laws of physics only demonstrate their profound ignorance and frankly incredible levels of naiveté. It's appalling that adults without a diagnosed mental condition can believe in this crap in 21st-century America. There is literally centuries of history of credulous fools being taken in by this crap. It's a fertile field even today as a quick check of web sites and YouTube videos will show.

Let me leave you with one thought: if you asked Elon Musk if he believed in the possibility of perpetual motion, what do you think his answer would be?

Dramsey | October 15, 2014

another science is breed reactors, this process creates more atoms of an element which again burns in the nucleeearrr process it can yield 1 to 2 times nucleearrr product.

No, it doesn't. It makes existing atoms into different isotopes.

its good to look at these sciences cause they do suggest the possibility of energy from nothing.

No, they don't. You're just to ignorant to understand it, and apparently too lazy to use the magic of the Interwebs to actually look some of this stuff up to see how it works.

nikolateslas88 | October 15, 2014

soo whos gonna start the anti- gravity thread ;)

Brian H | October 15, 2014

A perfect spinning flywheel stores energy, until that energy is used. Then it stops.

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