All we are taking about is about 300 bucks for a pair....for 2 tires folks!
View the "original equipment tires" for both 19 inches and 21 inches:
For the P85+ there is only one tire option.http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?tireIndex=0&autoMake...
Over $400 EACH for the rears. Two tire replacements a year is $1600/yr just for rear tires if they only get 4-5,000 miles.
Too quick to post. Just noticed that TR just has Pirelli for the P85+. Michelins in that size are probably similar though.
Well you didn't post pictures and notarized receipts with state governor signature, but it seems legit to me. That's a bit too much for my tastes, but having the option for those that think it's worth it is good-to-go.
The 21" high performance tires are optional even for the P85s. You can go with the standard 19" for about 300 bucks for both back tires. Plus there is NO need to change your tires twice a year. Under normal driving your tires should last you 15,000K or more with appropriate maintenance.
Check Telsa tire specification for P85 under the "Wheels" section:
@Justin- you kind of ignored what he said. Rear tires are different from front tires. We're talking about P85+s and they are not optional. Please check your own link.
Your replacement scenarios are obviously scare tactics. Other owners have gone much longer with no significant wear.
@michael1800.......I was referring to all the Model Ss including the Model 85P minus the p85+ . I am not really sure about the P85+....I have to check with Tesla.I know it says it's required on the link but I wouldn't be surprised if you still could use the the standard ones on the 85+ but you would lose the "Performance" gain.
@Brian H....his replacement scenario is total bull.....there is a guy who is approaching 27K with all his tires still in pretty good shape. You have to be a drag racer to need tire change twice a year!! Plus the P85+ doesn't apply to most Model S owners...
I'm at 3000 miles with insignificant wear. (21 inch conti's 375 Wh/mi average. I don't baby it)
There is huge variability. The guy who let me test drive his P85 before I ordered mine, has 4000 miles, he has already rotated, and its basically down to the wear bars now on all 4. I was pointing out it its not $300 a pair, and if we can't get at least 10K miles, it is a big deal. It would probably be helpful if Tesla put a car that is getting 20k and one that is getting only 4k on an alignment rack to see what the differences are.
Your "experience" just doesnt jive with the reality on the ground.....and yes it costs only 300 bucks for the standard ones for all Models except the 85+.....It's all there for u to see on the Tire Track site........enjoy :)))
P.S. - I'm particularly interested in the subject because I measured my front and rears tonight. I asked the question in a private thread - What are the tread depths on new PS2 tires for the P85+?, because I have 2/32 (or 1/8) of an inch tread difference from the inner tread and outter tread of both the front and rear tires, and I only have 250 miles on my car. Did they come that way, or have I already gone through at least 1/8 of rubber on the inside part of the tires in just 250 miles. I did multiple hard accelerations, but not that many in 3 days, and never with TC off. I tracked my 2012 911S several times and know what it takes to go through tires. What I've done so far shouldn't have put a dent in them yet. I have emailed Tesla to see what they say about my tire measurements, which were done with a real tire gauge.
I have a P85+, so I could care less what they cost for a P85, P60, a Honda Accord, Leaf, etc.
well most Tesla owners would care as most r not 85+ owners. Most are 60 and P85 owners. And there should not be huge variability as you state unless a given operator or the milege accumulated is at huge varience from the norm......
Or some cars are coming out of the factory with an alignment problem.
Yes that is true....if u r seeing unusual wear, u should get in contact with service center and get your alignment checked ASAP. U should get 10k+ on ur 85+ under normal driving condition.........
I love my P85. But it would be good to find out how come our cars have such inconsistent wear life from one to another.
tesla would definitely pay for new set of tires if the excessive wear is due to misalignment.
no worries there, so don't anyone worry they could be paying every 1600-6000miles like this guy spreading misinformation is saying.
just like when people picked at the batteries earier saying it is a huge cost to replace the battery if you brick it. not true, all under warranty for 8 years for that.
fight the misinformation campaign!
I have been very impressed with the P85 high performance tires.
I'm wondering if the uneven wear issue can be associated with certain range of VIN numbers. (i.e. 2500 through 3500)
Maybe a partial VIN number would be helpful for figuring things out.
At over 8000 miles we have much more tread than we expected. Trust me, we floor it often enough. At the same time, it might be the perspective we are looking at it from. We are accustomed to soft and expensive high performance "street" tires lasting just a bit more than two long race weekends. That is probably two or three race sessions of 20 to 30 minutes a day. It is fast and hard driving but no intentional spins or burnouts.
Maybe some people don't understand the normal characteristics and expense associated with high performance tires.
Ultimately I think we are going to get 19" before winter and continue using them year round. We really don't need high performance tires for off-track driving. We just liked the look of the turbine wheel and that is why we went with it. We are shopping for 19" turbine style wheels that are as close to Tesla's as we can get. That way we'll save money in the long run and probably use the savings to buy race tires for the track...
I went through a pair of rear 21's in 4500 miles( my Vin is < 5000). My Service Center noted the wear (I was clueless) and also noted that my alignment was out of spec. They ate the cost of new set of Conti's and fixed the issue. It will be a cold day in hell when BMW, MB or Audi deliver that kind of service.
I bought the the SC staff lunch. Problem solved. This is a nonissue. If your car's alignment is out of spec Tesla will fix it and replace the tires. Unlike a regular dealership, the SC's do not profit by screwing you.
P85, VIN 2317, about 3,000 miles on 21" tires (7500 total, but much of that on snow tires). No abnormal wear on either snow or 21" tires. Also, no squrllyness on go pedal manipulation either way. So you do wonder if there was an issue on some vehicles with suspension components either misaligned or loose.
I think that one fact has been widely overlooked. I will use myself as an example. My Signature was produced and presumably aligned. After that, it was loaded on a carrier with a driver who was, at best, indifferent (I met him and this is my opinion). The new car was transported about 2000 miles without the wheels turning on a stiff suspension carrier as the new suspension settled in. Perhaps there were some other misadventures that I am not even aware of. Then my new favorite car was unloaded in my local Home Depot parking lot and delivered to me.
This delivery method was my choice because I wanted my car as soon as possible. I subsequently found unusual rear tire wear. I called my local Tesla service center and they quickly sent someone to my house who found a bent wheel which they replaced at no cost to me. They (Tesla) also paid for an alignment which found and corrected improper rear toe in. They also paid for tire rotation.
My point is, I would not entitle this message "The Sky is Falling, I Have Unacceptable Tire Wear".
I wish there were a way to quantify the toe versus non-toe relate rear tire issues so we could remove some uncertainty.
I guess the answer is simply to check the inside groove the the rear tires in comparison to the outside and get ahold of service if they differ significantly.
I could not agree more in that the sky is definitely not falling.
My sig 127
Was picked up at the factory. On my very first drive I noticed
the car was pulling hard to the right. I fought it all the way home.
Tesla picked up the car and aligned it after 1 week. I think this
was fortunate in that my current set of tires has very even wear.
It still pulls almost imperceptibly to the right. I think, there is something
to the theory that the car is settling. (joints relaxing; pivots; tie points etc. )
I'm sure Tesla is aware and is/has worked on settling the alignment issue.
I'm replacing my tires next week, not due to wear but due to damage on the side
wall, they have 11,000 miles
My quote was $1138 out the door.
Replaced my rear tires today (sig performance), totally unexpectedly.
It didn't even occur to me to check them at 8,400 miles, and they are down to the cord.
Tesla claim this is normal, by design and not an alignment issue.
I consider it to be a design flaw.
They don't cover it either under warranty or as a part of a service plan.
I have abnormal wear at 4500 miles on a 60kwH, 19 inch. I went to Goodyear for a flat tire and they aligned the car and said that it was way out. I have driven pretty conservatively, and I don't have significant potholes or other hazards around here. I already had abnormal wear on my front tires. I had them rotated too.
I replaced one flat. The standard tire costs 230 dollars at Goodyear. Tesla charges over $300.
They offer a tire coverage plan which includes alignments, balance, and rotation twice per year. I took it, as the tire issue appears to be real, and it is likely to be the most expensive ongoing cost related to Model S ownership.
I think you are the first 19" owner that has mentioned wear. Can you confirm it was the inside shoulder of the rear tire? By chance did you get a before snapshot of the alignment to determine what was way out?
lola, thanks for being a advocate for those of us who are experiencing premature tire wear. I would expect the same trouble with the 19s as the 21s if the alignment is the issue.
Brian H, as a non-owner you should avoid calling those of us who have had this issue scaremongers and other such names. I have posted several times about my experience. I own a Roadster and have over 25000 miles on those tires (they will need replacing soon) but I have only gotten just short of 8500 miles on my S. And they were showing the cords already so in reality I only got about 7500 miles. I have corresponded with ownership experience and have been told it is driving style even though I informed them about my Roadster experience.
It was on the outside tread of the driver's side front tire. At least that was what was pointed out to me by the guy at Goodyear. He said it was likely due to an alignment issue and in fact afterwards he told me that the wheels were misaligned.
There is no evidence that this has anything to do with the car itself. However, if this recurs, then I will begin to suspect that this car has a tendency to go out of alignment.
Whatever the case, my main point is that the tires, even for a 19 inch 60 kWh model, are expensive, even at Goodyear, and that it makes sense to get a protection plan which includes free alignments. These are expensive tires. The poster who claimed $300 for a pair is way off on price.
"I have a P85+, so I could care less what they cost for a P85, P60, a Honda Accord, Leaf, etc."
Annoying content aside, I assume you mean that you couldn't care less. "I could care less" means that you do care.
Which is it? Do you care or don't you care? It is incredibly important for me, and presumably many others, to know if you care what they cost for other models. Let us know, as it will clarify the meaning of your important post.
Yours is unusual....usually the wear is in the back tire 21 inches. In my opinion the back tire wear is partly due to immediate torque being exerted on the tires by the motor mounted on rear axle which is a unique MS design. So your case I believe is strictly related to bad front alignment.
The MS has similar curb weight to many BMW and Mercedes sedans/coupes. So you would expect similar tire wear. But in MSs case the curb weight might not be telling the full story regarding tire wear....the unique MS motor on the axles design may be contributing to tire wear due to overall higher torque and/or weight effects on the tires.
I think air suspension lowering on the freeway may have something to do with it.
Considering lolachampcar's observation that this increases the rear camber by about a half a degree I think that could certainly contribute.
agreed on torque and we should consider that the rears are handling most of the deceleration with the high quality single pedal regen.
Before you act like an ass and rip on a guy, you may want to follow the thread a little more carefully next time and try to understand the context behind a comment.
WOW! Talk about a heated debate! I have a Signature VIN <1000 from November 2012 with 7800 miles and both rear tires had massive wear down to marker and I had to rotate. But now the front tires are all over the place. I am getting new tires put on Monday at SC. Replacing them with the same original Continental Extremes. They cost $220 each on www.performancetread.com/continental-extremecontact-dw-245-35zr21-xl.html. Tesla wanted $374 per tire. However, Tesla has me convinced this is normal wear for a performance car with 21 rims and is not a warranty issue. However, Tesla has moved to the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 in all performance S cars coming out now. These tires cost twice as much. Has anybody tried them and are they getting twice to wear?
If some get 27K with no significant wear and others are down to cord in 8K, there's obviously an alignment or other issue. Driving style etc. can't account for it, short of Daily Donuts or such nonsense. TM claims that it's "normal" are clearly out of line.
Those who get 27k miles are not driving 19" tires, those who are getting 8k miles and less are driving 21" tires. I don't see anything unusual here.
I mean they ARE driving 19" tires. Urggggg
What is the motivation to force 21" wheels on Performance+ cars? IME, 19" wheels can be more than adequate in supporting the torque and weight of the MS. It's not like the brake calipers require 21" wheels...they're the same brakes on all MS models, AFAIK.
10 to 15K maybe the norm for 21' back tires under normal driving condition. The 19' should get 20 to 30K under normal condition.
I think most people get the 21' for looks not performance sake.
@justineet: If you get the Peformance Plus package, TM requires you to get 21" wheels as well. There's no option not to.
Wow, I actually agree with you on this one! LOL. I wish they had made 19s in the same color and style as the 21s. I personally don't like the look of the silver 19s. My 911 had 20s, and the performance was outstanding. I don't know what the P+ would handle like with smaller wheels. I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do for winter tires/wheels. Hopefully someone with more experience can lead the way on that one....
Doh, someone posted before me. I was replying to justineet.
@cfOH That is true.....I was referring to most non-P+ owners who get 21" instead of 19".
justineet - I'm curious how you know how many miles folks should be getting on their tires? Do you own an S? Or are you guessing based on what you've been reading? I only ask as that's what I have to do.
I agree that most 21" wheel purchases are for the looks. If I was to purchase today I would probably get them too. Mostly because I'd have a very hard time passing up the P+ package but also because I prefer the look of them.
I did not want to be as blunt with my comments but I too think under 10K on 21s seems too low. It seems we can set aside 19s as being an issue so I'll start another thread asking 21 owners to post their tire wear experience.
@lolachampcar: So is there no way to significantly dial back the negative camber on the rears without having to fabricate some replacement UCAs??
My first stop was the alignment rack were we poured over the rear suspension. There is an eccentric bolt on the toe link to allow adjustment there but all the rest of the links are not adjustable. Tesla engineering did indicate that there is a small amount of "bolt slop" that can be used to bias the assembly one way or the other but I can not imagine that would account for much adjustability. If memory serves me, I think I lengthened the arms by 0.210" to remove just over a degree of camber.