Are they needed? What are the limitations of only having one charger? are you able to take full advantage of superchargers?
I is not necessary to have Twin Chargers a single charger will recharge overnight. I drive an S85 and never had a problem. The Superchargers bypass the chargers.
Single charger limited to 10kw; twin chargers limited to 20kW. So if you don't plug into any power source greater than 10kw, does not make a difference.
A NEMA 14-50 is a 50amp/240V circuit, and the MS will charge at 80% of the circuit rating (40amp) which is about 10kW. Twin chargers does not make a difference.
If you have a HPWC on a 100amp circuit (or anything over 50amps), then twin chargers will allow you to charge faster.
As @pbazar posted, you will have to decide if that is important to you. I use it when charging at HPWC at Tesla sales locations, and also have a HPWC at home ("just in case").
Twin chargers does not impact DC charging, like superchargers or CHAdeMO.
tes-s is correct, and it would take me roughly twice as long to charge with my HPWC if I did not have the twin chargers. It depends on how you use your MS as to their worth.
For me, this is a huge convenience. We are retired, we often go out to breakfast in the mountains, then return to charge the MS before we go to the theater or whatever. Also, the SE service center is two miles from my son's house, so I cancharge on their HPWC while we visit his family. If I needed two hours charge with my setup, I'd need four hours if I had only one charger.
Drove back from Denver (425 miles) this morning, in part courtesy of an acquaintance's HPWC. If I only had a single charger, I probably would have been late for work. I added 100 miles in ~2 1/2 hours--otherwise it would have been almost 4 1/2 since it was 70A/208V service. The second charger is totally worth it to me since this is my current link to the cross-country SC highway.
So it seams like only when using the HPWC is when twin chargers comes into play. Which is great, because I don't foresee myself needing a HPWC. The longest rip I would take has a SC right smack dab in the middle. I am doing all my research before potentially buying and wanted to make sure I wouldn't be shooting myself in the foot.
You would not be shooting yourself in the foot, but you would be wasting some money. For many people who don't have super long commutes, charging overnight with a single charge (NEMA 14-50) at ~30 MPH is plenty.
@Justphred -- I'm in exactly the same place you are in, as I've been speaking with one of the TM representatives which has been giving me very good advice, whereby we've weighed the importance across various criteria. Depending on our needs will really dictate whether we should invest in a dual charger as well.
Based on our needs, because we will be traveling to areas in remote WV and Kentucky where there are no SC sites nearby, we'd be dependent on plugging into the home of relatives.
Personally, I think a twin charger will be essential for our needs, personally speaking....
I purchased a supercharger enabled 60 with single charger when I had a house. This was great for me, because 12 hours is 204 miles, and that's the max the battery can store anyway. Even if I drove it to empty everyday, I'd still have plenty of time at night.
Now we live in an apartment, and don't have any electrical available. I charge next door once a week overnight and am full by morning. And for frequent roadtrips we have lots of Superchargers between here and our destinations.
The supercharging option was free for some of the early reservations, so I did not have to pay for it. If I did it again, I would absolutely pay for it. Great value. I would not configure with dual chargers this time either. Not many HPWCs where I live, so I would hardly ever use it. AND I can always add it later (at a premium), if I needed to.
After long thoughts I finally added Twin chargers without HPWC. I had to call Tesla to get this as by default they make you buy as a bundle. Alone Twin chargers cost 1500 USD. My logic was that if I am driving and in a different place, fast charging is really convenient. Some tesla owners/businesses have HPWC. You can always go to Tesla service center and get charging at 60 miles per hour. Else you will get charge at 30 mph. If you are sleeping, rate does not matter. But if you are waiting, difference in rate is drastic. My logic was to be as fool proof as we can. I highly recommend 85 kWh and Twin chargers to all. In the electric car, most important thing is battery and ability to fast charge it. Everything else is bells and whistles.
So it seams like only when using the HPWC is when twin chargers comes into play.
Not just HPWC. When using any AC charging source greater than 10kW.
So if you can't access super charger (DC charging) and have access to >10kW AC charger, Twin chargers will be very helpful. For me they will be needed occasionally when I am out in the wild and visit Tesla stores. If you don't want to spend 2700, you can at least get Twin alone. BTW they can be installed post delivery at cost of 3600. I know some folks who regret not having twin chargers as a costly mistake. Biggest regret folks state they have is buying a 60 when they should have bought 85.
SunCountry Highway CS90 chargers are capable to source 68 Amps of current. I have used them during my trip from Toronto to Boston. Extra 28 Amps with twin chargers saved me a lot of time !!!!!!!!
If you leave around superchargers I believe it's useless feature.
In Canada, the cross-country Sun Highway has 70A+ J1772s at most stops, so the twin chargers allow you to take full advantage of them.
Bighorn - saw your car at Canopy. How long and what level did you charge in Cheyenne, WY on your way home?
Rod in Evergreen, CO
I was going to charge to 90%, but I went to meet Samosam, so I let it ride (via the app)--it's a bit of a blur since I pulled an all-nighter. I think I ended up around 95%, maybe 45 minutes. Temp dropped from 30 to neg5 along the way, so the extra charge was welcome as I was trying not to have to conserve by slowing down or turning down the heat. Topped off in Lusk to minimize my time at Tom's HPWC.
I have a 60, but my ONLY regret is I wish I would have got it a decade (or more) earlier!
"Based on our needs, because we will be traveling to areas in remote WV and Kentucky where there are no SC sites nearby, we'd be dependent on plugging into the home of relatives.
Personally, I think a twin charger will be essential for our needs, personally speaking...."
It would be very unlikely that you could use 80A at your relatives house, unless you a installed a HPWC there in advance.
I should qualify my comment. Many 60 owners are happy campers. Still when you ask what feature one is missing, I read that most missed feature is range . Folks say there driving habits changed or weather condition or battery degradation is not allowing them to use entire range. By no means I am saying all 60 owners regret not having 85. It is a great car.
Tesla owners are creating charging network. Tesla service centers have HPWC. So most folks if they install Howc , it will be used by visitors provided they are willing to share.
I have a single charger and it has never been a problem.
Do you need to drive over 265 miles everyday?
What do you think your average daily mileage is?
Do you live in freezing weather?
All of the above factors should be considered. Let us know your numbers and we can make a better estimate for you.
Agree with comments that it depends on your driving needs/patterns and availibility of Superchargers in your area. For me, our trips are mostly satisfied by in home 14-50, superchargers, destination overnight charging. For the rare trip when we would need on-the-fly charging outside of this my wife would insist on taking her Lexus--the difference between waiting 3 hours instead 6 for 80A versus 40A would be lost on my wife...she would say $1500 (or $2700 w/HPWC) will buy a lot us gas for those few instances and she ain't going to wait 2-3 hours for a charge.
@justphred: "The longest rip I would take has a SC right smack dab in the middle."
Depending on how "middle" that is, is the problem. I recently road-tripped from SF to Seattle via Superchargers. The problem was once I got to Seattle, it was hard to find good charging (hotel had no charging, public stations took too long).
Thankfully, I have dual chargers even though I use a 14-50 at home. I was able to top-off very quickly at a local Service Center to make the "first hop" back to the nearest Supercharger for the trip home.
Would it kill me to spend an extra few hours at a mall? Probably not. But it was sure handy when you want to depart at the crack of dawn and get as far as possible before nightfall.
I forbid long rips in my car.
most of my driving needs would be covered by SC or charging with 14-50 at home. Any Given day i drive no more than 20 miles… and the road trip I speak of is a 200 mile (one way) trip. also I take it back, the SC is more like 3/4 the way throughout the trip at Harris Ranch in CA, with only 50 miles from the SC to our final destination. So if I get a full charge there, I have enough to make it where I am going, drive while I'm there (never more than 30 miles around town) and then get back to the SC for the return trip.
I now understands the Twin Chargers, and when they would be useful but I don't think I would utilize them.
@Chuck Lusin -- You're right. We would definitely need twin chargers. The most my relatives would have would be a dryer.
@ir: your use case is what most people will need twin for. In the destination city charge quickly while you are waiting. Overnight charging, it does not matter if you have twin or not.
I got twin chargers "just in case". I figured I would use superchargers for my trips.
As it turns out, the supercharger I was counting on has been delayed at least 9 months - so the twin chargers have come in handy. The Tesla locations have HPWC and have been extremely nice and accommodating.
@tes-s -- Thanks! This is encouraging and further validates what I needed reassurance. I'm not one prone to easily throw $$$ down. Every dollar matters...$1500 is still a lot to me. :-) Thanks!
Nothing beats a supercharger, but he HPWC at Tesla locations have advantages. Usually in a mall (been to King or Prussia and Natick).
When I get there, first thing I do is plug in and get those electrons flowing at 80amps. Often someone is either coming or leaving from a test drive, and the prospect inevitably asks if I like the car, where I' from, etc - which leads to 5 minutes of praise for the car and over course the company and people, and how easy the trips are.
Then I stop in at the store to introduce myself, and say thanks. Sometimes another prospect asks about the car, and another 5 minutes of praise.
Bathroom break, maybe a bite to eat, and check email. Quick walk around the mall to stretch the legs and get some blood flowing, and back to the car. Maybe another 5 minutes of praise...and I'm off with 100 miles added to the tank.
Not the same as a supercharger or driving straight through, but a different pace for making a trip, and LOVE driving the MS. If really pressed for time and can't make the MS work, I confess...I drive an ICE.
That is a long way of saying that with twin chargers at a Tesla location at the mall, it is almost like part of the trip and not like you are stopping for a charge. But if the stop were twice as long, it would change the experience greatly.
...oh, and don't worry about finding the Tesla store in a mall. Just look for Victoria's Secret. They always seem to be located close by.
Does anyone know if a single 10 kilowatt charger can charge at higher than 40 amps? For example, a lot of high-amp chargers are 208 volts. That's about 48 amps at 10 kilowatts, but only 8.3 kilowatts if there is also a 40 amp limit per charger.
Canary2014 | March 3, 2014
@Chuck Lusin -- You're right. We would definitely need twin chargers. The most my relatives would have would be a dryer.
Irrelevant. The twin chargers will not draw more current than the original circuit supplies. A dryer won't give you over 10kW, IIRC.
Sometimes you just can't hold it in, regardless of "permission"!
typo: dryer plug won't ...
I think twin chargers are a dead end unless your home is your primary charging station and will be for the foreseeable future and you have 100amps and a HPWC because most EV charging stations will be switching to DC quick charging or at the very least combo chargers. A better investment for road warriors would be a CHadeMO adapter when it is released because it is actually very fast, uses similar technology to the Tesla Super Chargers and is faster then any AC charging station that will be used. It is starting to be roled out in the U.S. on a larger scale and would save you over $1,500 and would be closer to future proof then AC charging.
Not indispensable, but if you decide to get it you'll love it.
We have twins on both of Model S's and an HWPC at home. We benefit from them every week.
Charge rate is a defining part of the experience of an EV. Double the rate delivers more flexibility and utility, particularly with smaller battery packs.
We can usually top up our packs in 20 minutes or less.
I am looking at buying a MX as soon as I can get ahold of one and I am planning on twin chargers for the simple fact I go on a lot of road trips and do not want to be limited if the situations presents a possible way to charge faster. I am also in the military and move a lot so I never know where my next charge point is going to be. I also like the fact I do not have to buy the HPWC with the twin chargers since it would be a waste of money to install one and then move.
Twin chargers are absolutely worth it. In addition to the Tesla stores having HPWCs, many owners, including myself, publish their HPWCs on Plugshare. HPWCs are a great gap filler between Superchargers, which is particularly useful in cold temperatures, or if you have a M60.
After confirming our order, we opted to add twin chargers to our Model S85, as we intend to use the Sun Country Highway charging stations at 70-90 amps up in Canada. We will charge at 40 amps or lower at home, but can use the HPWC 80 amp outside stations at San Diego Service Center, if necessary.
Leaving a HPWC behind would force the next resident to buy a Tesla. Sounds like a good idea!
What are the options to add a second charger down the line? Say, I get it without but then want to add it later? what would the cost be?