SeekingAlpha has misleading article favoring Toyota Prius over Tesla

SeekingAlpha has misleading article favoring Toyota Prius over Tesla

They claim the Supercharger rates (pre-adjusted) makes owning a Tesla more expensive than owning a Toyota Prius. It assumes all charging is done from SC.

My post claiming that the writer is either an idiot or liar was, of course, deleted by the censor. There are a few more diplomatic posts that essentially say the same, but are lost in the hundreds of other frantic posts dissing Tesla.

So, I suppose it's Tesla shorting season for SeekingAlpha again. | January 22, 2019

I stopped looking at SA about a year ago. Seemed every article was fake news or people with a grudge with wildly made up or distorted data.

SO | January 22, 2019

Meh... so what. Tesla is clobbering them. Anyone who thinks a Prius is on par with a Tesla (all things considered), is truly delusional and I wouldn’t want them buying a Tesla anyway.

Anton is a known Tesla badger. | January 22, 2019

The Model 3 is the 4th largest selling car by volume in Dec-2018 and #1 by value (USA). Maybe not so boutique. The Prius was in slot #20, even though it costs quite a bit less. So I guess the Prius is for very-very early adopters? Doesn't seem like the Prius is a mass market car when compared with the Tesla based on sales.

RedShift | January 22, 2019

Toyota had over 100 years to get to that volume, and they have 20-30 models to do it with. It’s most direct competitor to Tesla gets clobbered by the Model 3.

Darth loves his apples to rocks comparison. Like with the Hummer that went 4 times less the distance of a Tesla and still polluted more!

SO | January 22, 2019

@Redshift - no kidding.

RedShift | January 22, 2019

Again with the ‘math’. I have a feeling you flunked that subject in school. You seem to compensate for it here.

Tell me - why did you make the Hummer go 1/4 the distance to make your so called equations work?

Did you even read your own links? The report is about how it compares to a supemini, that too in the US Midwest. Do you have any shame or do you just bleat bullshit any chance you get?

SO | January 22, 2019

@Darth - people who are looking at a Tesla are probably not as concerned about “cheap”. If the higher supercharger rates is enough to sway a potential Tesla customer to a Prius, then they probably shouldn’t have considered a Tesla in the first place.

SO | January 22, 2019

@Redshift - the way Darth comes to the conclusion is so convoluted, it truly is an artistic talent. I applaud him.

RedShift | January 22, 2019

What does the Hummer owner do after 250K miles Darth?

I asked you this and you were too busy defending your math with many people he debunked you outright.

SO | January 22, 2019

@Darth - I agree. The insurance and taxes paid on the purchase of my MS far outweighs any gas savings I’ll ever see. (And I even have free supercharging for life). But I do still enjoy not giving as much money to the oil industry and Saudi Arabia (since they own the largest refinery in the US).

I do think that Tesla overplays the gas savings a bit as well as the Autopilot safety and car safety ratings. They could still say a top rated safety pick. Elon does often bring on his own headaches unfortunately.

SO | January 22, 2019

@RedShift | January 22, 2019
“What does the Hummer owner do after 250K miles Darth?“

Answer - they have to hitch a ride in the Tesla which then causes even more pollution by the Tesla. Score another win for the hummer.

RedShift | January 22, 2019

No, you don’t get to slip away, eel.

To have a fair comparison, one must compare like to like.

If A goes 250 K Miles, then B must go the same distance to compare EQUIVALENT environmental footprints.

To do anything else, is to engage in mental masturbation.

You say math is what you wanted to argue, sir?

rxlawdude | January 22, 2019

Anyone who claims a Hummer is cleaner than a Tesla has as much credibility as Rudy Giuliani on a bender.

RedShift | January 22, 2019


Let me refresh your memory for you. None of what you just said was said to me. You are just rambling something now.

You said, a Hummer will be driven only 250k before it will die. A Model S, owing to its simpler mechanicals, will last for a million miles. Hence, over each ones life time, the CO2 emissions will be MORE for the S.

That was your whole argument.

Ikester | January 22, 2019

Let’s suppose a Hummer does emit less than a Tesla over its “lifetime“ (which I don’t for a minute believe).

There is no hope of keeping the Hummer’s emissions from entering the environment as it goes down the road. And the Hummer’s emissions will likely worsen as it ages. Not to metion the oils it deposits and emits as well.

At least the Tesla’s emissions occur at a central place and there is the hope of mitigation.

Of course, my Tesla’s power comes almost exclusively from hydro so.....

RedShift | January 22, 2019

Argue math, Darth! Trying run away, wuss?!

babyjocko | January 22, 2019

But what if the source of grid power is hydro, solar, or nuclear?

SO | January 23, 2019

Darth is correct. A Tesla Model S will probably have higher emissions over the lifetime of that vehicle.

Reason? The Model S is capable of driving MANY more miles over its lifetime than a hummer. Possibly a million miles compared to just 250k.

It’s an absurd way to look at it, but technically he is correct.

The better comparison would be, does a person who only drives Teslas in their lifetime vs someone else only driving hummers produce more emissions. In this case, the only hummer owner is much worse. (Unless he would factor in another odd metric stating that the Model S would still drive more because FSD would be used as a taxi.)

But there is already a whole insanely long thread discussing this.

SO | January 23, 2019

Apples to rocks

SO | January 23, 2019

@Darth - “However those are not the dominant method for powering the grid.”

Something that needs to change. Where electric cars are most prevalent, coal usage is lower. Fortunately in many cases as EVs increase in a region, the power is also made cleaner.

reed_lewis | January 23, 2019

Here in the enlightened North East part of the country in my municipal light and power company, over 95% of the power comes from non greenhouse gas producing sources.

So at least for me, very little of the power I use in my Model S produces CO2

Darthamerica | January 23, 2019

@SO the problem is that the alternative sources, except nuclear, aren't yet able to compete at utility scale with fossil fuels. Sure solar can help in some residential applications. But that's an exception not the rule.

babyjocko | January 23, 2019
up north | January 23, 2019

Darth It’s sure been fun watching you try to kick water uphill. Keep trying.

SO | January 23, 2019

@up north - does ice count? Just curious. :-)

Tesla-David | January 23, 2019

As the grid moves away from fossil fuel sources to clean renewable sources, EVs will only get better relative to C02 emissions. I live in a solar paneled home and charge both our Tesla's off our roof, and export most (60 percent) of our solar generated electricity back to grid. ICE vehicles will NEVER get better by comparison. The cost of solar keeps going down, the link below shows that solar definitely is cheaper than coal right now.

"The cost of producing solar power is rapidly declining: It now costs $50 to produce one megawatt-hour of solar power, according to a new analysis."

Tesla-David | January 23, 2019

Somehow the coal comparison got chopped. Here it is.

"The cost of producing solar power is rapidly declining: It now costs $50 to produce one megawatt-hour of solar power, according to a new analysis."

Coal, on the other hand, costs $102 per megawatt-hour to produce."

Tesla-David | January 23, 2019

Hey troll, we also have 2 PW2 batteries to capture our solar and store it for use when the sun goes down. Solar + PW2 batteries are a winnable combination.

SO | January 23, 2019

More power plants are converting to renewables.

Slow process but it appears to be going in the right direction.

SO | January 23, 2019

(Or at least supplementing)

SO | January 23, 2019

Better than nothing

RedShift | January 23, 2019

It reduces pollution.

jimglas | January 23, 2019

TF this conversation have to do with the topic of this thread. flag the trolls

up north | January 23, 2019

Minnesota as of 2019 gets 25 % of there electric from wind. In a short 11 years from now Iowa will have 100% by wind in 2030. The Prius will disappear.

Tesla-David | January 23, 2019

Worthless Troll flagged

Sleepydoc1 | January 26, 2019

Even 30% of Texas power is now wind. 30%+ of my power in Sacto from the grid is renewable and 0% coal. I have 60+% from my roof top solar to start with, though. Clean and getting cleaner.

Mike83 | January 27, 2019

Maybe I could have sold my old Prius for more if a buyer believed this story. I am happy it's gone and we have a M3 along with our MS. Since our Tesla's do so much better in the snow and ice we are selling our neglected Tacoma d(199706)with 4WD. That has been a great truck and it even has an Alpine CD player with 6 CDs and a great sound system, I will throw in a trailer. Any takers?