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Ford finally makes a pretty competitive EV.

Ford finally makes a pretty competitive EV.

www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/2021/

While it is not as efficient as a Tesla, it has some of the things that Tesla has.
- OTA updates
- Charging network statuses
- Live traffic
- A big center screen

It also has a nice design (except for that awful front end which looks like an old Model S).

As long as the dealers sell this car it should do pretty well.

The unveiling was stilted, boring, uneventful and they did not even show the car until a half hour into a 40 minute event. Idris Elba's jokes bombed, and everyone seemed bored.

reed_lewis | November 18, 2019

Other positives
- Still has the full $7500 tax credit
- Has a large dealer network for repairs.
- They actually talked about not having to do oil changes
- It drives well (according to people). They are selling it as a ICE replacement, not a second car.

Negatives:
- Being built in Mexico
- The dealer network might just park the one or two in inventory in the back of the lot and push the ICE cars.
- Trips might be interesting depending on availability of charging ports. Does the center screen show real time availability, etc?

Questions:
- Any streaming options in the car? Spotify, Slacker, Tunein?
- Is OTA updates for the entire car or just the infotainment system?

Thoughts?

SamO | November 18, 2019

They cannot seem to differentiate between “charging” and “fast charging”.
This is very very bad. For potential owners who would like to take trips.

Obfuscation and lying to potential customers isn’t a good look and is souring me to this otherwise milquetoast car.

DAlexModel3 | November 18, 2019

Does this mean you have to pay extra to get DC fast charging?

"When properly equipped with the available premium 300 mile extended-range configuration"
https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/2021/

reed_lewis | November 18, 2019

It looks like all of them have DC charging. It is just the speed difference. I mock configured 3 different models and all had DC charging. What I find interesting is that the RWD smaller battery has 230 miles rated, while the AWD smaller has 210 miles. Doesn't AWD improve efficiency usually? At least with Tesla it does.

I agree with SamO that they are rolling up all the charging ports available, including A/C charging ports into the number of ports. But there are DC ports available. Just not the number quoted.

andy.connor.e | November 18, 2019

I dont know why, but the interior of that car looks like such a Ford design.

jimglas | November 18, 2019

@Reed: SIngle engine is more efficient, even for tesla. LR RWD tesla has the longest range.

SamO | November 18, 2019

I am definitely glad that Ford paid Idris Elba 9 figures to gin up excitement for this car.

But instead, they could have built 60 DC fast charging stalls as a down payment for the Ford Network of fast chargers instead.

Ah to dream.

TeslaTap.com | November 18, 2019

Some quick Tech notes:
• 75.7 kWh or 98.8 kWh battery options
• Standard home charging at 240v at 22 miles/hour
• Charge Station at 240V option at 32 miles/hour
• 150 kW DC charging supported
• Estimated EPA range of 270 miles for a larger battery, AWD ($59,900)
• Available late 2020

TeslaTap.com | November 18, 2019

Styling - My take from images:

Exterior - better than most non-Tesla EVs. The front seems a little odd but should look good in black or gray. Other colors make it look like an old Model S, but not necessarily bad. Don't think styling will slow sales.

Interior - Generally nice. I like the interior cabin lighting. The seats look uncomfortable, but unfair to evaluate without sitting in them.

Displays - Nice having two large displays and touchscreen. The Instrument display looks out of place, and quite boring looking. No hood over the display makes me wonder if it is viewable when the direct sun hits it. Quite a few physical buttons all around (neither a plus or minus).

hcwhy | November 18, 2019

Naming the car "Mustang" shows Ford's serious about it and using every advantage they have.

Having a fast charging stations at Ford dealers would be easy to do and give coverage to lots of routes.

Another huge win for Musk and for Tesla.....we are changing the worldwide fleet towards electric....the mission statement of Tesla.

reed_lewis | November 18, 2019

@jimglas - I completely forgot about the PM motors. I was used to the older motors and the S/X where the AWD was more efficient than the RWD.

The presentation of the car was boring, and had too many people to make it useful. It was fluff and lacking substance. They could have saved their money and just presented the car without the famous people. People do not need to see Idris Elba hawking a new car like the Mach E

jordanrichard | November 18, 2019

While I didn't see the presentation and have only seen a few interior pictures, but the center screen looks to be straight up and down. Meaning, it is not slanted like the S and X, which would make it difficult to reach the controls at the bottom of the screen.

I am just waiting on the reactions to them using the name Mustang for this. Porsche didn't use the iconic 911 name for it's SUVs.

andy.connor.e | November 18, 2019

I will admit this car looks better than Gen 1 leaf.

TommyT | November 18, 2019

During WW2 I was raised in the backseat of a Ford (father in navy, served on both oceans) and in 1965 I owned a Mustang. In 2015 I took delivery of an 85D. A year earlier bought some TSLA. Therefore I am very happy to see both Ford and Tesla marching toward EV adoption.
Now if they really wanted to turbocharge (sorry Porsche) EV adoption they should (ducking here) cooperate on charging infrastructure. Of course that would mean that Ford would make a significant financial investment to match Tesla's existing and future investment. The US will need a healthy, genetically diverse, EV industry to survive the coming tsunami from China and cooperation between Tesla and Ford could be the germ of that. There are many possible drawbacks but the upside potential is huge.
TommyT

jimglas | November 18, 2019

I wish it looked more like a mustang
Shelby came up with a winner in that design

andy.connor.e | November 18, 2019

Musk Tang. Now thats a drink for the future.

Techy James | November 18, 2019

@reed_lewis the Improved range for all-wheel drive tesla's was only for the original Induction Magnets versus Persistent Magnets like the Model 3. The M3 LR RWD had a longer range than the M3 LR AWD. Granted it was only about 5%. Your thinking about when Tesla first offered AWD on the Model S, the AWD was slightly more efficient than the RWD version.

Uncle Paul | November 18, 2019

"Musk Tang" Give this the most creative post award for the year :)

Back seat was really cramped in the unveiling. Girl in center had to lean way forward. No place for her shoulders.

Earl and Nagin ... | November 18, 2019

@TommyT,
There's no need to duck. I think a lot of us are disappointed that Ford doesn't seem to be supporting any infrastructure. Its the main page from Tesla's playbook that everyone seems to be missing. Ideally, they'd take Tesla's open invitation to collaborate on Superchargers. Tesla mandates that collaborators be supportive by investing money and making cars that have good range and can charge fast. This new 'mustang' appears to check the range box and, possibly, the fast charge box. As @SamO points out, for the money they paid on their spokes-models, they could already have installed a few Supercharger stations.

jimglas | November 18, 2019

OMG, did they really have "spokesmodels"?
I thought that went out in the 50's?

Tesla2018 | November 18, 2019

I would never buy a 4 door Mustang. Only good thing is that it is a hatchback. Model Y will have Supercharging which will be a good selling point to counter Ford. . Only people I can see buying them are mini van driving soccer moms and dads going through a mid life crisis who are trying to relive their younger days by thinking they are cool and have a Mustang.

Earl and Nagin ... | November 18, 2019

@jimglas,
I don't know how better to describe Idris Elba's role.
@Tesla2018,
And, as we saw with the Porsche's Cayenne, Macan, and Panamera; Those midlife crisis/mommy denial cars sell - a lot.

Tesla2018 | November 18, 2019

@EarlandNagin Porsche never had an SUV. Its only real 4 seater was the 928 since the 911 and 924 rear seats were a joke

Maserati, Bentley and Lambo all came out with them too. But They didnt name them after existing models. However Ford, unlike the other brands already made SUVs so if they used a new name it might not be as bad as using the same name as a car they already make. They use E names like Explorer, Excursion, Expedition. Why not name it the Ford Elextric, Electrip or something similar.

blue adept | November 18, 2019

Reality check people because, as it stands now, the newly touted "Mustang" / "Mach-E" is little more than just another 'concept vehicle' and all they've provided thus far is a 'prototype' which they say is slated for production in a couple years...in Mexico...maybe.

Additionally, I advise everyone to take this revelation with a grain of salt inasmuch as Ford used to make an electric Focus of which only about 2,500 have been sold since 2011 before production ended in 2018.

Similarly, they also used to produce an electric Ranger pickup beginning in 1998, of which less than half of their Focus tally were sold before they stopped production on in 2002.

Again, don't misunderstand me, I REALLY do hope that Ford finally jumps wholeheartedly into the EV automotive evolution to further the transition to sustainable, conflict and pollution-free transportation with a market viable EV, much the same as I do the other ICE automakers but, based on the historical record of these companies, I wouldn't hold my breath (even if I'll keep my fingers crossed)

.

FISHEV | November 18, 2019

I put down a deposit. Things Mach E has that Tesla 3Y won’t or is an issue with Tesla.

1, Blind side indicators
2. Rear cross traffic warning
3. Lane Keeping
4. Adaptive cruise
5. Inline screen
6. No look controls for mirrors, lights.wipers
7. Separate shifter
8. Rear auto braking
9. Rear wiper
10, CCS charging port
11. 360 View
12. Rear auto braking

FISHEV | November 18, 2019

The FordPass is interesting as they say it will be good on all charging systems from Electrify American to EVgo to Blink and free for first two years.

blue adept | November 18, 2019

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

Every so-called EV startup has hyped their alleged vehicle's alleged attributes that will set it apart from and even surpass those of Tesla's automobile lineup, but then detractors always like to talk a lot of shit without any actual substance which is the only thing that enables them to talk the poo-poo as, without an actual product, they can claim whatever they like as it's all vaporware where the sky's the limit and their imaginations can run wild.

But, until they start rolling vehicles out of their factory and we're able to see them out on the roadways, it's all just farcical hype.

However, I am looking forward to your review of the Mach-E, @FISHEV.

;-)

SamO | November 18, 2019

The entire spectacle of paid advertisements and “endorsements” is a joke. Companies attempt to create an illusion that someone important really cares and loves their garbage product.

But in reality, it is a sham. Ford spends $2.5 Billion in the US each year to convince people that their indiscernible garbage is way different than GMs milquetoast garbage.

Receipts: https://www.autonews.com/article/20160628/RETAIL03/160629852/automakers-...

blue adept | November 18, 2019

BTW, Ford, way to outsource American middle class jobs and undermine our economy in the process.

FISHEV | November 19, 2019

"But, until they start rolling vehicles out of their factory and we're able to see them out on the roadways, it's all just farcical hype."@blueadept

Heard the same thing from people when I put my deposit down on a Model 3 that was "just farcical hype" and not to be delivered for near two years.

Ross1 | November 19, 2019

Oh dear. Fish has ordered a Stang EV. Everyone in the world is going to order a Stang EV. So I must buy Ford stock.

When I bought an Apple computer, my kids said: Dad bought an Apple computer, therefore Everyone is going to buy an Apple computer. Stock is $14. We should buy AAPL, and did.
The rest is history. Kids retired in their 30s. Went on to otherr startups, but my point is this. When some JohnDoe buys a product, it can be a signal of being destined for greatness.

I have been looking for a comment from EM like this: It is very similar to a Tesla, just happens to be from the waste basket. Is what you get from poaching staff.

It has none of the timeless raw appeal of a classic Mustang. One of which anyone (me) would be happy to own a 1968 model in 2019.

Totally in line with Tesla's mission statement. However when EM offered open patents, there was a reciprocation required in the receiver also offering up theirs in a sort of exchange. We tend to forget this.

Ross1 | November 19, 2019

Actually there is a followup:
Kids said: If you dont buy an Apple, we wont support you (with tech help, you know, how we need kids for that. Where is a 10-year old when you want him? is my favorite cry)
Then I bought said Apple. Then kids said: Now we dont need to support you, because Apples dont need support.

Maybe I have posted this before.
Maybe not.

TranzNDance | November 19, 2019

Can 10 year olds raised on Apples be able to provide tech support if Apples don't need support?

Ross1 | November 19, 2019

It turns out: yes.
Apple actually uses my kids software.
And I can usually get help (if I wait long enough)\
And my grand daughter gave me greatest support ever, she is nearly 9, in showing me how to use voice for texts. Because I have a severe tremor, I cant type good.

bp | November 19, 2019

Remember... We're comparing a 2021 vehicle with what Tesla has today.

While Ford's Assist features compare well to Tesla's non-FSD AutoPilot features today, by the time this vehicle hits the market, Tesla's AP features should be far beyond this - with the potential to achieve FSD. It's unlikely Ford will add much (if any) new AP features beyond what they list today - and for owners purchasing the Ford EV, they probably won't see Ford add new AP features after delivery.

Compared to other future EVs coming from the other manufacturers, this may be the first to compete with Tesla on range, performance and price. However - that's comparing today's Tesla vehicles. By 2021, Tesla will likely have released another generation of the battery & motor technologies - and raise the bar even further.

Eventually the other manufacturers will figure this out - and produce an EV that can compete directly with Tesla - and this could be it. But Tesla isn't standing still on their designs - and can move more rapidly from design to production.

So it'll be interesting to see how this vehicle compares to Tesla by the time it releases.

FISHEV | November 19, 2019

"We're comparing a 2021 vehicle with what Tesla has today."@bp

2020 delivery for Mach-E The Model Y is the 2021 product.

Mach-E doesn't really compare to the Model 3 which is a sedan. Autonomous driving is not really on people's radar as a feature but they do want the basic safeties of adaptive cruise, blind side indicators, auto braking both directions, lane keeping, rear cross track warning what Tesla calls AP. Tesla's AP on the Model 3 is buggy to non-existent so advantage to all other EV manufacturers there.

"But Tesla isn't standing still on their designs."

Tesla is doing exactly that. The Model Y looks and is a stripped down model vs. MachE, eTron, iPace and Kona EV. The AP system is poor vs. competition. Model Y looks a bit drab in addition to lacking lots of tech features and operational conveniences.

jimglas | November 19, 2019

Fish spewing FUD as usual

PrescottRichard | November 19, 2019

Let’s all agree to come back in a year or two when the car is actually available and move on :)

FISHEV | November 19, 2019

"Let’s all agree to come back in a year or two when the car is actually available and move on"@PrescottRichard

We didn't agree to that with any EV previously from Leafs to Teslas to Audi's to Fords and now the Tesla pickup doing its reveal in a couple days with production years out. Fun to discuss.

The Ford Mach-E is pretty much production now with 9 months before first delivery. The traditional auto mfgs. still do a lot more build and testing before production than Tesla. That is what has caused Tesla's issues in the past. So the Ford is more actual at this point than with Tesla at similar point with Model 3.

We have all the specs on the Mach-E just waiting on final EPA and NHSTA numbers to be posted.

rxlawdude | November 19, 2019

Another elephant in the room is how well Ford's battery management (charging/recharging/regenerative/discharging) works, especially in areas with extreme heat or cold.

This is one where the wisdom "never by the first year model" should be heeded. $60K for anything approaching a Tesla should give many pause.

TabascoGuy | November 19, 2019

@FishEV "The Model Y is the 2021 product." What orifice did you pull that gem out of? The first production Model Y's will come off the assembly line in the next two or three months, if not sooner.

rdavis | November 19, 2019

@TabascoGuy...

Just to clarify, I believe Model Y is schedule to start production late next year (2020) for the LR versions and sometime in 2021 for the standard range.

rdavis | November 19, 2019

@FishEV... now that you've declared your intentions to buy a Ford EV mustang, will you please leave an go to their forums to make a fool of yourself over there instead of spewing the FUD over here? Please and Pretty Please... ;)

Yodrak. | November 19, 2019

The most recent things that I've been reading indicate that the Mach-E is very Tesla-like, in that Ford has copied but not exactly the touch screen hanging off the dash, the unusual door handles outside and inside, and a few other things. Technical specs for both the Mach-E and the Model Y are speculative at this point, making for great debate among enthusiasts, but lets see what the general public thinks a year, or two, from now.

Possibly a great marketing move on Ford's part to produce a CUV, a popular class, but tie it to the Mustang name, a popular and iconic model. On the other hand, I'm thinking that both Ford and GM should be bringing out EVs in the Mustang and Camaro styles. Performance cars, and EVs are inherently performance vehicles that would outshine the ICEV versions. And for GM, an EV Corvette. Then again, maybe they're afraid to have their EV offerings to compete that directly with their iconic ICEV models.

jordanrichard | November 19, 2019

Elon said that the Model Y could very well be in production next summer. I am sure he didn’t mean full blown production, but it will be in production.

I personally won’t ding Ford for copying some styling elements from Tesla. At least they are building or rather will be building a BEV.

crt6598 | November 20, 2019

So Ford engineers could not figure out how to eliminate the manual HVAC controls?, or the manual start/stop button?, or the rotary volume knob?, or the rotary gear selector?. I will say I do like the exterior door button at the b and c pillars, very nice touch!!. Also the rear interior cargo cover opening with the tailgate.

This car has it’s hits and misses, which Ford can learn from and refine on 2nd gen/ future model EV’s. I do hope the dealers push them well, and not just put them in the back of the lots (uncharged) in favor or moving ICE inventory!!.

TabascoGuy | November 20, 2019

@rdavis - Tesla announced that they will begin Model Y production sooner than scheduled. I'm not clear what "enter production" in the article I read actually means but they are saying summer 2020 now. I expect that the 'first' car off the line will be much sooner than that but I'm an eternal optimist. Either way, they will be producing Model Y well before 2021 as Fish stated.

andy.connor.e | November 20, 2019

"So Ford engineers could not figure out how to eliminate the manual HVAC controls?, or the manual start/stop button?, or the rotary volume knob?, or the rotary gear selector?"

They are good at making the same iterration over and over. It looks like the dash behind the steering wheel was placed in a hole that was bored out from where the old dash was and just kind of slopped it into the hole. It almost looks removable. The lack of what you had listed is what separates typical car makers, they dont know how to do anything different.

jordanrichard | November 20, 2019

I think, like Porsche, the interior designers didn't want to hog wild to 100% controls via a touch screen, fearing alienating their customer base. I just don't like how vertical Ford center screen is. I know the Model 3 has a vertical screen, but it is nowhere near the size of the Ford screen. It's all about proportions.

Earl and Nagin ... | November 20, 2019

@rxlawdude
"Another elephant in the room is how well Ford's battery management (charging/recharging/regenerative/discharging) works, especially in areas with extreme heat or cold."
Good point. My father's Ford Escape Hybrid had trouble on I-80 going across Utah at 80+ mph and 100+ degrees F.
I know that Ford's engineers can solve the thermal issues, the question is whether they will be enabled to do so.

Regarding knobs dials, etc: I won't fault Ford for saving money by throwing in stock parts that they may already have available. While I like Tesla's clean interior, it isn't really a major selling part to me. The fuel source, low maintenance, safety, and performance aspects are what sells me the car.

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